While I was at work, peverett delivered two zenith color roudies to my neighbor's house to await my return. Turns out, one of them is a 29JC20Q chassis with the Space Command 400 remote receiver. I have two SC 600 remotes. What is the difference between the 400 and 600 series? Will my 600 remote work with the 400 receiver?

I don't have any photos to post at the moment. I am awaiting my little brother to come help me move these sets from my neighbor's garage to mine. After that, I'll get some photos posted here.

Thanks again, Jody, for delivering the sets!

they sound like neat sets! Hope to see some pix soon!!!!!

Got the sets moved to my house today. The Space Command set has the monster 29JC20 chassis in it.

The 21FJP tested good. Chassis was mainly dusty with no rust. Will clean up good and shiny once I yank it out.

Noticed first that the Horz Output tube was missing. Every book and schematic I have says it uses the 6DQ5... as does the tube diagram in the set. Went to put one in, but wouldn't fit. Got to look a little closer, and come to find out, the tube socket IS NOT an 8 pin octal. Instead it had a 12 pin socket like in the later sets. I double checked everything to make sure I wasn't getting tube numbers mixed up, but still confused as to why the tube diagram isn't matching what's in the set. So, I found a 6JE6 and decided to put that in there once the time came.

I brought the chassis up slow on the variac with no bad surprises. There is a slight hum in the audio, so sounds like caps will need changing. Found the sound detector tube was dead, so changed that and got audio from the local stations.

After a while, I put in the 6JE6 HO tube to see what would happen. Well... nothing. Then I discovered the focus tube was dead, so changed that and got a picture. Success! Well, it isn't the best picture. Have a few inches of the bottom missing and convergence is off a good bit, but at least it's running. Color is working as well. Ran it for about 30 minutes.

The remote chassis works pretty good. Found that my 600 remotes operate just fine with the 400 chassis. All functions work, but needs a little cleaning here and there. Sometimes the channel selector just keeps on running. It never stops on channel 4... always goes right past it (and 4 is one of our locals). At one point, I lost the audio and couldn't figure out why. Turns out that something cause the "mute" function to engage.

I like all of the lights on the front. There is the tri-color emblem that is iluminated when the SC chassis is on. Then there are the different lights indicating whether it is set to HI, MeD, or LO volume. Kinda neat.

I feel like this set should play very well once the capacitors get swapped out.

The cabinet needs only minor attention... perhaps some touch up stain here and there.

The insides. Man that power transformer is a beast!

CRT shot so far. It ain't pretty, but it works! Some fresh lytics should whip this baby back into shape!

I love that set Charlie! The picture tube looks in pretty good shape (no delamination & good pix!)) Is it a 21FJ and is it the original?

just re-read your description and see it is a 21FJ. Man.... you're lucky not to have any delamination or green halo. My Admiral roundie has slight delamination (original tube) and my Sylvania roundie has a black matrix tube installed in 1978, but has green halo....

As far as I can tell, I think it has the original FJP in it. So far I have not found any date codes, but it is tagged as a Zenith. Examining it closely, there is some slight delamination around the extreme edges, but it's almost completely hidden by the mask. I am a bit surprised that it isn't worse.

One of those full-featured roundie Zeniths in a huge cabinet is something I'd really like to get. I'm down to just one roundie (From three at one time). But the one I have is rather plain, without any special features.

I'd say your CRT isn't original, because the color of the screen doesn't match the mask. I know Zenith used at least two different paint colors on their masks to match the CRT. (One is kinda green, the other is a blueish-gray).

Doesn't mean much, I'm still jealous!:)

Originally posted by Carmine
I'd say your CRT isn't original, because the color of the screen doesn't match the mask.

i had wondered about the color of the screen. I thought it looked rather "light" in color.

Perhaps I'll find some date codes the next time I get diggin around in it closer.

Man, that bad boy makes me wanna get my ol' roundie runnin'- think we decided it's a'65 Zenith.It was my grandad'[s set-1st color set I ever saw up close & personable-like. -Sandy G.

I have a 29jc20(non sc) and it DOES use one(6dq5). So does my spare chassis I have. That sounds strange. Zenith NEVER used a 6je6 in their sets to my knowledge, they used a 6hf5 after the 6dq5, then a 6js6, 6lb6 and finally, a 6lf6. My service manual does NOT show an alternate output tube for the set.

By the way, it is a '62 model(zenith's first color, after their RE entry into the color field(the did have a prototype in '56or 57, somebody on this board showed one, but then, they pulled out of color, untli 1961, for the '62 year, and brought out this set.

I seem to remeber some type of Zenith chassis I was working on that had a notation on the tube chart that said "DO NOT SUBSTITUTE XXXX H.O. TUBE FOR XXXX H.O. TUBE" There was also a similar sticker placed near the tube socket.

Looked to be some kind of running change, but they obviously didn't want you to use any type of tube except whichever the set came with.

Can't remember the model number.

Yes, every piece of paper I have here says to use the 6DQ5. But since the socket in the set is a 12 pin socket, I was obviously not going to be able to use what they said. Unfortunately, since the tube was missing, I have no idea of what they DID have in there running it. i just took a stab with the 6JE6 to see if it would work. I guess I am fortunate it did. Perhaps another 12 pin tube would be better, but at this point I don't know what to think.

Perhaps once I get the chassis out of the set, I'll find out if it looks like this socket was in there originally or if someone put it in later. Even if someone did put this socket in there later... why did they do it?

Originally posted by Charlie
[B] Sometimes the channel selector just keeps on running. It never stops on channel 4... always goes right past it (and 4 is one of our locals). /B]

Very, very nice set. I remember we had a 29JC20 (non-remote) in a woodgrain metal cabinet in our electronics lab in high school over 30 years ago. We never fired it up, so I don't know to this day if if worked or not. Nice looking set, though. Had the old style Zenith channel selector knob that projected the channel number onto a screen in the center of the knob (I like that design, as it was on my old Zenith K2739 1963 b&w console--in fact, I like all Zenith's lighted channel selector schemes).

Interesting that your set has the emblem which lights up when the Space Command system is on. (The volume indicator lights are unusual as well; yours is the first Zenith SC set I've ever heard of with this feature and also with the illuminated Space Command on/off indicator.)

As to your set failing to stop on channel 4, I would look at the back of the tuner. There should be a wheel there, attached to the part of the tuner shaft that protrudes from the back of the tuner, with 12 adjustable tabs on it. Check to see if the one for channel 4 is set to the "skip channel" position. If so, set this tab to the "stop on channel" position. The tuner should now stop on channel 4 just as nice as you please.

BTW, I remember seeing your local channel 4 in my old neighborhood (a Cleveland suburb) years ago, before I had cable or Internet access. I live in a fringe area now where anything is possible as far as TV or FM DX is concerned (my FM radio dial lights up with stations from Detroit, Toledo, Ohio and southwest Ontario, Canada, in the summer when the skips are in), but my old neighborhood was a near-fringe reception area for Cleveland stations as well. When the weather conditions were exactly right, channel 4 from Port Arthur, Texas would push Detroit's NBC affiliate, WDIV (which is the station we usually get here on channel 4 in the spring and summer when the band opens up) right out of the picture (pun intended).

I once received channel 5 from Saginaw, Michigan when Cleveland's ABC affiliate, WEWS, also on channel 5, was off the air. The station in Saginaw is WNEM-TV and is, IIRC, a Fox or UPN affiliate now, but it used to be the area's NBC station.

When WNEM changed from NBC to UPN/Fox, the NBC network was picked up by WEYI, channel 25, in Flint or Bay City, Michigan (I'm not sure which). I have seen the latter station on occasion as well in the summer (when I still had an antenna, of course), when the PBS affiliate in Cleveland, WVIZ on channel 25, would sign off at one or two o'clock in the morning.

Jeff,

After checking closer, I figured out the little tabs you mention to make the Space Command skip or stop. This is my first set using a remote, so I am learning a few new things here.

Here is a shot if the emblem lit up as well as the volume level indicator...

Here is the 2nd set of the two. This one uses the 25MC33 chassis. Looking inside it showed that this set was in the home of a HEAVY smoker! :smoke: Wow it is covered in there with major dirt and tar/nicotine!

I have not tried anything with this set as of yet. I have too many pulled apart in the garage as it is!

Originally posted by Charlie
Jeff,

After checking closer, I figured out the little tabs you mention to make the Space Command skip or stop. This is my first set using a remote, so I am learning a few new things here.

Here is a shot if the emblem lit up as well as the volume level indicator...

Yes, that's about the only thing I can think of which would cause the tuner to skip channel 4, yet stop on all the other local channels. The tuner in that set is the conventional strip turret, and the SC system is the same as Zenith used for years in its remote sets, so there is really nothing else much that can cause problems of this nature. About the only other things that can go wrong with this system are the drive gears becoming stripped or broken (this often happens when the owner or viewer attempts to operate the channel selector manually, against the resistance of the gear train--which of course is a one-way ticket to big trouble in a mechanical power tuning system, as these are not ordinarily meant to be operated manually except by a manual channel selector knob at the back of the set, to be used in case of motor drive failure), the tuning motor binding up or outright burning out, or a problem occurring in the SC chassis or even the remote hand unit itself. The solid-state SC remotes do not usually give much trouble unless they are dropped or otherwise abused; the only real problems I've ever heard being reported with these remotes are weak or dead batteries, or sometimes the contacts for the control buttons themselves becoming dirty, tarnished or otherwise contaminated.

The same thing happens with today's stock and universal remotes as well after years of use, but the new ones are the dickens of a thing to get apart to work on the buttons; the best thing to do in case of major trouble with unresponsive buttons, etc. in this case, assuming that new batteries don't remedy the problem, is to junk the old remote and get a new universal unit. Most TVs, VCRs and cable boxes with IR remote systems will work with universal remotes, so you won't have much trouble finding one which will work. I use an RCA 3-function universal remote with my 19" Zenith in my bedroom; it works perfectly, giving me the same type of control over all functions as the original full-function remote would have. The remote that came with the set, however, was a bare-bones unit with on/off, mute, OSD display on/off, volume up/down, and channel up/down; the original full-function remote would have cost much more--it was much cheaper to get a universal full-function remote, even if it is a different brand. Heck, if it works, who cares what brand the uni remote is, right?

BTW, I like how that Zenith emblem lights up with the SC chassis energized. Very unusual, IMO, to have a remote receiver on/off indicator, though; Zenith is the first manufacturer I've ever known to have such a feature on its older color sets.

However, I noticed in your picture of the volume indicator that the display looks as if it is in the shape of a letter H. Is this a moving bar type of display, with the middle of the H traveling vertically between the two long bars at either side of it as the volume was adjusted? I was under the impression, from having read another post in this thread, that the volume indicator in this set was three small incandescent lamps behind colored lenses, for low, medium and high volume, respectively.

BTW (2): I took a look at your website. You have a very fine collection of old TVs of several makes, including Magnavox and Sylvania (liking consoles as I do, I especially like the looks of your Maggie three-way unit; the Sylvania looks great as well).

As to your Halo-Light Sylvania TV, I agree with you; it is extremely unusual (almost unheard of, really) for the fluorescent HaloLight tube in these sets to last anywhere near five decades (most of these burn out or otherwise go bad within about five years, more or less). The only halfway legitimate explanation I can come up with for the exceptionally long life of the tube in your set is that the previous owner did not use the HaloLight function very much, if he/she used it at all.

Originally posted by Jeffhs
I was under the impression, from having read another post in this thread, that the volume indicator in this set was three small incandescent lamps behind colored lenses, for low, medium and high volume, respectively.

Yes, that is correct... there are three individual lamps that light up an L, M, or H. The little window was somewhat dirty when i took that picture, but i've clean it up and looks much better now.

Originally posted by Jeffhs
The only halfway legitimate explanation I can come up with for the exceptionally long life of the tube in your set is that the previous owner did not use the HaloLight function very much, if he/she used it at all.

Surprisingly, the HaloLight does not have an On/Off switch. There is, however, a knob on the front panel that can turn the brightness of the light up and down (like a volume control). The only way the light can be turned off altogether is to get in there and pull the plug on it. When I found the set, it was still plugged in.

Charlie,

Your Curtis Mathes set is truly fab!








Stevehoffman.tv

Charlie, I really like the Zenith! Very elaborate cabinet, it must have set someone back a bundle in it's day!

Eric

Charlie,

I have added your site to the links on mine.

Thanks, guys, for all of the thumbs up. I hope this Zenith turns out well in the end, and I feel that with everyone's advice, pointers, and moral support, it will.

As Eric mentioned, this set cost someone some serious coin back in '62. I was kinda curious of whether or not this set had an original price tag reaching $1000.00? Correct me if I am wrong, but seems the average color set in the early 60's was about 600 dollars. Throw in the fancy cabinet, remote, and HI-FI sound, and I'm sure that price tag could really get up there. The only option not included on this set is a UHF tuner, and if I am not mistaken, it actually was not offered on this chassis. None of the paper work i have here mentions a UHF tuner. Does anyone happen to know how much extra was the Space Command feature for these sets? I was speculating that the SC would add at least a hundred bucks by itself.

As far as the little website I put together, it's not fancy looking by any means, but it is someplace where I can gather my goodies so share with others. Actually, it was Carmine's site that made me look into this 50megs.com. He had mentioned in his site that it was a freebie, and had plenty enough for what he needed. Of course, "free" is always a plus. So thanks to Carmine for bringing my attention to a site that I could work with (especially considering that i am in no way HTML oriented). Yeah, you might have to deal with the annoying pop-up ads, but now days it seems that many browsers have pop-up controls that take keep people from having to be bothered with pop-ups.

Charlie, is it actually a 9-pin socket? 6JE6 is 9-pin; 6JS6 is 12-pin.

The set that I have that is like this (Space Command) uses the 6HF5 output tube. It is the slightly later model that uses silicon diode rectifiers. This appears to be a rare tube as I have not seen it used on other sets.

Your set appears to be among the very early models as it uses rectifier tubes rather than silicon diodes.

Chad,
Yes you are right... that is a 9 pin, not 12. Geez I can't even coun't without using fingers! :withstpd:

Yes, as Jack mentioned, this was Zenith's first regular production color set from 62 (other than their earlier prototypes). It was the only one using LV rectifier tubes... two 3DG4's.

Hey Charlie:

That second Zenith looks exactly like the one I got from Doug! Mine's got the 24MC32 chassis, though.

Hope you get yours working as well as mine does. It's a real treat watching vintage TV on a roundie. And the sound kicks some serious butt! These new black plastic sets just can't compare.

Bob

Originally posted by Charlie
Here is the 2nd set of the two. This one uses the 25MC33 chassis. Looking inside it showed that this set was in the home of a HEAVY smoker! :smoke: Wow it is covered in there with major dirt and tar/nicotine!


I'd clean that chassis thoroughly before powering it up. If it's covered with cigarette tar and nicotine, not to mention ordinary dirt and dust, it could create a fire hazard. Frankly, I'm amazed it didn't catch fire long before you got it, as filthy as you say the chassis is. :eek:

Originally posted by veg-o-matic

That second Zenith looks exactly like the one I got from Doug! Mine's got the 24MC32 chassis, though.

And the sound kicks some serious butt! These new black plastic sets just can't compare.

Bob


Bob, are you sure about that? The 24MC32 only has one speaker, a small oval unit. Unless you are referring to the 24MC32's audio channel, are running the sound output through a stereo outfit, or have retrofitted the set with a larger speaker, I don't quite follow you. I once had a Zenith 23" console with a single-ended 6BN6-6BQ5 audio system, tone control and a large speaker; this sounded so good I eventually patched an FM tuner into the audio (across the volume control, with blocking capacitors of course).

The prize for the set with the absolute largest loudspeaker I ever saw, however, goes to a GE console I once saw here on AK which had an oval speaker some 12 inches in diameter; the magnet must have weighed five pounds as well. :eek: Those sets must have had incredible bass response--enough to blow the roof off a house with the volume control not even at the halfway mark, and audio plenty good enough to listen to music or to feed an FM tuner's audio output through.

As to the sound quality of today's sets, you are right on the mark. Today's black plastic cube sets, all of which are manufactured offshore these days even though they may still bear American brand names such as GE and RCA (I understand Goldstar is not using the Zenith brand or logos on its televisions any longer), do not sound anywhere nearly as good, with their cheap speakers (the so-called "stereo" televisions are even worse in this regard; hardly worthy, IMO, of the extra circuitry required for MTS stereo) and low-fo audio channels, as the older sets with near-hifi audio and large speakers (in consoles; even the cheaper portables from the '60s and '70s, as well as today's 5" cheapies with AM/FM radio, had cheap transistor radio speakers, with sound channels to match).

There sure was a long dry spell in the tv business when sound was crap. I have a 25MC33 (have never put up a photo of it) and the sound is superb. It has a minor defect in the picture, when I finish with it the sound & picture should be a great match.

The 25MC33 and earlier chassis use the 6BQ5 for sound. Seems everyone is usually pleased with the audio using this tube.

IIRC, the comments on sound coming from the later chassis using the 6Z10 output tube are not as good. In fact, seems I remember people saying it flat out sucked with the 6Z10.

Guess they should have stuck to the 6BQ5 tube

I don't know where you guys heard that the lightning-bolt Z wasn't being used anymore, it's on the latest plasma flat screens and DVD players. Take a look at their equipment sometime, it's actually pretty neat. While I realize these things aren't being built in Chicago anymore, they sure boast like it is. "Zenith...the leader in high-definition television" And now, "Digitize the Experience"

http://www.zenith.com

Cory,

I logged on to the Zenith site and noticed the site copyright dates are 2001-2002. Also many of the pages could no longer be brought up. And the Zenith dealer locater was also not working. Is the Zenith name quietly going away?:dunno:

Don't know, but the last time I watched CBS, the HDTV graphic that usually plugs Zenith at the beginning of an HD show plugged LG instead. Can't be a good sign...

---

But LG is......... GOLDSTAR!!!

Originally posted by rca2000
But LG is......... GOLDSTAR!!!

FWIW I went to Circuit City to see the Zenith 27" HDTV. I know this isn't the 1959 REAL Zenith I have sitting in my living, nor is it my mom's 1988 Space Command 19".

I must tell you it does have a clear, flat picture. Colors were accurate and sound was pretty decent. The Panasonic and Sumsung next to it had some kind of color or detail problems. It has loads of inputs, DVI, component, composite, front mounted inputs for a camera or a game system. It doesn't look like a "black box" TV. It's silver with dark grey around the screen. It is a pretty TV and almost earns the right to have a "Z" on the front.

Whenever my Sanyo goes out, I'll get the new Zenith. That will be my choice.

What about the CRT's on the modern Zeniths? If or When did the shorted CRT syndrome that happened in the early-mid 90's end?

LG stands for "Lucky Goldstar" I think the Zenith name is going to be phased out soon, now that parent company LG has placed some distance between itself and crapola "goldstar" branded products, by virtue of using the Zenith name for a few years. I agree with the earlier post, put the name out of it's misery!

Notice that LG is also selling China-made refrigerators and other large appliances. For those of you who lament the disappearance of the US electronics industry, you can at least take a stand against our losing large appliance manufacturing too. I'm pretty sure that Whirlpool stuff is still made in Benton Harbor, MI... Not by slave laborers in communist China. Whirlpool is good quality stuff too, always has been. Keep that in mind next time your milk goes sour and you go fridge shopping.

I guess the slavelabor wage advantage is now so great that it even outweighs the cost of shipping a 300lb. fridge 10,000 miles!

LG is one of the few remaining manufacturers of air conditioner and refrigerator compressors left. Actually, LG air conditioners are quite good.

---

I recently got a new window air conditioner from Home Depot and it looks like it was made by LG. The perfomance is good...but part of the chassis that goes between the inside evaporator and fan and compressor outside appears to be made of styrofoam! Not even plastic with styrofoam insulation between, just a sheet of styrofoam.

Guys, I'm afraid it's gonna just get worse...my uncle read int he "Wall Street Journal" that there is nothing made in the USA that basically can't be made cheaper somewhere else. That's pretty scary, if you think about it. -Sandy G.

I remember as a kid in the late 70's and early 80's that there was a store in the next town. It was a "Pamida" and they carried ALL the awful electronic crap!!! "Goldstar", "Portland" & and any other OFF brand they could get. I also remember all the people getting the CRAPPY Emerson VCR's from that store that would crap out in about a month, and this was still when mono, 2-head VCR's were still $350.00 + Anyway...... after making fun of ALL that Goldstar crap back then because I worked in a Zenith store, I never would have imagined Goldstar buying the name, and the death of Zenith. When my Uncle closed shop in the mid to late 80's everybody thought he was nuts, because he got into the computer business. Started out with Zenith / Heath equipment. He was smart enough back then to see the writing on the wall for all the US manufactures....

Originally posted by Carmine
LG stands for "Lucky Goldstar" I think the Zenith name is going to be phased out soon, now that parent company LG has placed some distance between itself and crapola "goldstar" branded products, by virtue of using the Zenith name for a few years. I agree with the earlier post, put the name out of it's misery!

Notice that LG is also selling China-made refrigerators and other large appliances. For those of you who lament the disappearance of the US electronics industry, you can at least take a stand against our losing large appliance manufacturing too. I'm pretty sure that Whirlpool stuff is still made in Benton Harbor, MI... Not by slave laborers in communist China. Whirlpool is good quality stuff too, always has been. Keep that in mind next time your milk goes sour and you go fridge shopping.

I guess the slavelabor wage advantage is now so great that it even outweighs the cost of shipping a 300lb. fridge 10,000 miles!

So then what do you get for a modern TV?

YES, I want a vintage collection of TVs but for daily home theater, I want something modern. It just seems that the Zenith is one of the best looking and best performing TVs out there. The Zenith has alot of advanced features that you could only get in a bigger more expensive HD system ie: progressive scan, 16:9 correction, etc.

As far as appliances, Whirlpool is the way to go. They're still american made workhorses.

Jason, That is a good question! In my opinion I think most new stuff is junk. but like myself I'm sure most of us have a new "daily watcher" If the Zenith looked good then consider getting it! (with an extended warranty, which with the way stuff is made now I would say that with ALL brands) Anyway... I don't have alot of room in my place so I got a 24" Toshiba flat screen. Had gone with a Sony Wega first, but the picture was crap, and after reading reviews and e-opinions I decided to go with a different brand alltogether. I think Panasonic still puts out pretty good stuff. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion, but my advice is to see what has the best picture and value for the money. I still think the saying "you get what you pay for" still holds true in electronics altho my Sony mistake proved me wrong on that one....

Originally posted by Chad Hauris
I recently got a new window air conditioner from Home Depot and it looks like it was made by LG. The perfomance is good...but part of the chassis that goes between the inside evaporator and fan and compressor outside appears to be made of styrofoam! Not even plastic with styrofoam insulation between, just a sheet of styrofoam.

Yeah I bought one of those recently to use up at my camp. and it has the styrofoam like that too. They are just made to be disposible. Hell, I think the unit only cost me a hundred bucks!

Meanwhile, out in my garage, i was attempting to pull the chassis out of this zenith and it looks like a nightmare! I think this time I will just turn the set on it's side and go in thru the bottom of the cabinet! All of the power control switches and lights have their leads soldered instead of using plugs, and some of the tuner is the same way. It looks like yanking this chassis would be a major pain in the ass. Thank God they put that cut-out in the bottom of the cabinet for servicing!

I've also noticed the wording on the right side of this label that makes me think this CRT was repalced. "New electron gun, other materials may not be new" is not usually seen on original crts.

Was in a classroom the other day and they have what appears to be a very recent (if not brand new) Zenith TV and VCR. Both of which don't actually say Zenith on them, instead they use just the lightning bolt "Z" emblem. Strange.

Color seems decent enough, who knows for sure unless it can be compared to other sets side by side. The amazing thing is how downright awful some new sets are. Go to your local Good Guys/Best Buys/Circuit City etc and take a look. It's not just a matter of different adjustments, it's the sets or brand themselves.

RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY! You no longer can be blindly be brand loyal.

Anthony

Originally posted by jstout66
Jason, That is a good question! In my opinion I think most new stuff is junk. but like myself I'm sure most of us have a new "daily watcher" If the Zenith looked good then consider getting it! (with an extended warranty, which with the way stuff is made now I would say that with ALL brands) Anyway... I don't have alot of room in my place so I got a 24" Toshiba flat screen. Had gone with a Sony Wega first, but the picture was crap, and after reading reviews and e-opinions I decided to go with a different brand alltogether. I think Panasonic still puts out pretty good stuff. Everyone is gonna have their own opinion, but my advice is to see what has the best picture and value for the money. I still think the saying "you get what you pay for" still holds true in electronics altho my Sony mistake proved me wrong on that one....

Sony TVs aren't very good at all. Their ES line of recievers are excellent. I have one and I love it. Their everything else isn't that great. At Best Buy there's a 27" Sony right next to a 27" Toshiba flattie. The difference is night and day. The sony seems fuzzy while the Tosh was crisp and clear.

Toshiba seems to be the winner as far as value and picture quality.

The Zenith comes in 2nd plus it's a HD CRT which gives you the benefit of HD in a 27" size. Plus if I buy a Zenith HDTV at Circuit City, I get 12 free months of HDTV service with my cable company.

The Pana came in 3rd as far as pic but it didn't give as much detail as the Zenith/LG.

Charlie said: Meanwhile, out in my garage, i was attempting to pull the chassis out of this zenith and it looks like a nightmare! I think this time I will just turn the set on it's side and go in thru the bottom of the cabinet! All of the power control switches and lights have their leads soldered instead of using plugs, and some of the tuner is the same way. It looks like yanking this chassis would be a major pain in the ass. Thank God they put that cut-out in the bottom of the cabinet for servicing!


I am working on a RCA CTC-31 w/remote and it is such a pain to get into the chassis. For one thing, the circuitboards are mounted in such a way that it can be very difficult to get to all of the solder points on them. Also just getting under the chassis is difficult...there are no detatchable plugs to the tuner, and the way the auxiliary control panel is designed makes it hard to tip the chassis up to get under it while it is still in the cabinet.

The more I look at other brands of tube type sets the more I like the Zenith quality. Have never had the 6GH8 color sync drift, the fried flybacks, etc.

Originally posted by jasonlava
Sony TVs aren't very good at all. Their ES line of recievers are excellent. I have one and I love it. Their everything else isn't that great. At Best Buy there's a 27" Sony right next to a 27" Toshiba flattie. The difference is night and day. The sony seems fuzzy while the Tosh was crisp and clear.

Toshiba seems to be the winner as far as value and picture quality.

The Zenith comes in 2nd plus it's a HD CRT which gives you the benefit of HD in a 27" size. Plus if I buy a Zenith HDTV at Circuit City, I get 12 free months of HDTV service with my cable company.

The Pana came in 3rd as far as pic but it didn't give as much detail as the Zenith/LG.

Yah. I have 20+ channels on off-air (or would if I had a DT adapter). I would pay for TV but it's a lot like the old daze:

The quality doesn't go in before the show goes on...

I went to a Sears store here. They had a 16:9 HDTV thing for $600??? You should've seen that thing clip the chroma and <BLEED>:yuck: :wtf: :yuck:

Maybe it's all crap:rolleyes:

I've gotta back jason on this one, besides "making" some pretty decent TVs, my sister ended up buying a Zenith DVD/VHS combo unit that not only had some styling to it, but actual useful features and at a good price too. Nary a problem yet-

But that's the question...how many folks rely on the 'new' stuff for daily watching vs. firing up a roundie?

Originally posted by Cory


But that's the question...how many folks rely on the 'new' stuff for daily watching vs. firing up a roundie?

I fire up the roundie... mainly because i dont have any 'new' stuff. :)

If my color roundies were at my current location, I would fire them up without question. The most modern set I have is an RCA colortrak from the mid to late 70's. Then again, I fire up my BW roundie (Andrea) and my restored portables (all 2 of them) and the programming theyt reproduce still sucks.

On the window A/C units, the styrofoam is used for fan shrouds (condenser side) and blower housings (evaporator). As long as the fan blades and squirrel cages don't go out of balance, they should be OK.

As far as the death of Zenith, the quality may not go in before the name goes on anymore, but the old REAL Zeniths are still here and will outlast any junk LG makes.

Turned the set on its side and was able to change out a small handful of caps this evening, but it really hasn't made any difference. Two of the lytics were for the sound output, but I still have a good healthy hum coming from the speakers. I think another lytic was in in AGC. Don't recall what the 4th one was for.

Turns out that most of the lytics for b+ are 80mfd/475V and 4mfd/450V... there's about 8 of them, so I'll have to go to the parts house tomorrow. Kinda afraid they won't have the 80/475's. I think the highest they have is 80/450, which would probably work, but I don't really want to take that chance.

A few of the lytics had already been changed, and looks like there are some fairly new orange drops in there (but still plently of Blk Beauties to swap).

folks,

I have to say my 1976 Philips produced far better color than my 1999 Sony .....maybe in the "good old days" when colour was an expensive toy, the manufacturers were still interested in quality.

These days it is just about churning them out for the minimum cost. (Especially the no-name brands from China).

One interesting thing for we in non NTSC land ...is that the black levels for NTSC and PAL are different.

My Sony actually often produces better colour from NTSC sources eg: DVDs than many pure PAL sources like off air broadcasts.

This is especially true if you use Sony's presets.

I certainly have to switch settings for NTSC sources to ensure true blacks and to get chroma settings right.

---

I find that the old TV's are good for TV station viewing and some DVD's, but I do use a 1979 Zenith Space command and a 1985 Sony 19" set for some DVD/videotape viewing. The tube type sets often have too much trouble coping with Macrovision.

Chad, We have the SAME sets! (or did). I use a 1979 System 3 space command in the bedroom, and had used a 1985 Sony in the living-room. The picture tube was going out on the Sony so that's when I got the new Toshiba. I remember when VCR's first came out and when we would sell one it would usually follow with a new tv sale because of the "bending" at the top of the screen on the tube sets. I'm still working on trying to get a console tube set for a daily watcher tho...

I have a 1999 RCA XL-100 as a daily watcher in my living room, and a 1995 Zenith "Sentry 2" 19" set in my bedroom. Both sets have remotes and work well on cable (Comcast digital and analog, respectively); the Zenith has gone almost ten years with no problems at all, while the RCA has had only one small problem in almost five years.

The picture quality of both sets is excellent, especially since Comcast rebuilt its entire system in my small town. The Zenith doesn't get much use right now as I don't watch TV in the bedroom as a rule, but it will become my daily watcher when the RCA eventually goes West (after the extended warranty expires, of course).

Personally, as I have said before, I am amazed and pleased I have not had any CRT or chassis troubles with the Zenith in nearly ten years (this set was made during the period when Zeniths were notorious for catastrophic CRT failures and troublesome chassis designs), but I'm not complaining. That set was my daily watcher from 1995 until 1999, and served me very well during that time. Considering all the problems being reported with the new Zenith branded Gold Star (now LG) sets, I consider myself very lucky to have gotten a mid-'90s Zenith which has been so trouble-free (knock on wood).

BTW, my set has the company name "Zenith" prominently displayed on the front panel, at the top of the control cluster to the right of the CRT. The Z is Zenith's trademark lightning bolt. The computer-generated label on the back of the set with the date and place of manufacture, etc., near the 75-ohm antenna/cable connector, clearly states "Zenith Electronics Corp., Glenview, Ill. 60025", so this set must have been made before Gold Star took over the company. However, the set was manufactured in Mexico, which leads me to believe Zenith already had moved its main plant there by the mid-'90s; the Glenview, Illinois address was likely that of their business and administration offices at the time.

---

thats gotta be one of the last ones "Zenith" put out. Zenith did have stuff assembled in a plant in Mexico by the early 80's. If you check out the early System 3's it had already started. I remember my Grandpa (who worked in the shop as well) cussing about that. He really pushed the "made in the USA" thing.

Hey Andy, Has anyone figured out what caused the CRT's to be bad? Was it a Goldstar thing or did Zenith screw up? I knew the tubes were bad during those years, but never knew why.

---

I dug a little deeper into the "Zenith Electronics Corp." site, (not LG). Zenith lists several analog sets, in various screen sizes, in their current? lineup. Including 2 large "wood" consoles in traditional cabinet style. It seems strange, and 60's like, seeing these large oak sets with speakers behind sculptured cutouts on each side of the pix tube. I wonder if the remotes say "Space Command" on em?

...it looks like something from the 60s but then this is what a real TV should look like!! ..not a black or silver box in the corner but a real piece of furniture!!

This is the 25" Zenith "traditional" model ...there is 27" as well.

Pity I cannot by one here in Australia!

Originally posted by Jeffhs
[...]
antenna/cable connector, clearly states "Zenith Electronics Corp., Glenview, Ill. 60025", so this set must have been made before Gold Star took over the company. However, the set was manufactured in Mexico, which leads me to believe Zenith already had moved its main plant there by the mid-'90s; the Glenview, Illinois address was likely that of their business and administration offices at the time.

That'd be right, though while I don't remember the exact dates, I tend to suspect your TV was made after LG bought a majority state in Zenith, but before they took them over outright.

I have a 25" Zenith Sentry 2 (also Mexican-made) that I bought new in late 1993, and I remember feeling a pang of depression about a year later when the news came out that LG was buying 51% of Zenith... :(

Anyway, by sheer coincidence, the past couple of weeks around here have been scattered "Spring clean up days" (large-trash pickup days) for many of the communities around here, and last weekend I picked up a 27" Zenith Advanced System 3 off the curb. It was made in January 1991 and was manufactured (assembled) in Zenith's plant in Springfield, MO. Anyone know exactly when Zenith stopped making TVs there? I figure this has got to be just about the last model year for any "Made in USA" Zeniths, though.

Normally, I wouldn't have been interested in such a recently-made TV, but I guess I couldn't resist, given that this was probably one of Zenith's nicer table-model sets at that time, and might make an easy replacement for my aformentioned low-end Sentry 2.

BTW, considering this relatively late-model TV was being tossed out, I fully expected it to be broken, so I was surprised to discover that it actually does seem to function quite well. However, when the power is switched off, a small roundish red 'spot' a couple of inches in diameter appears in the center of the CRT for a few seconds before it fades away (sorta reminicent of some old color TVs where the picture would collapse into a small rainbow "burst" for a few seconds while the HV caps discharged). Any idea if this is harmless, or could it be a sign of disaster to come? (thus explaining why it was tossed in the trash...)

Originally posted by Carmine
For those of you who lament the disappearance of the US electronics industry, you can at least take a stand against our losing large appliance manufacturing too. I'm pretty sure that Whirlpool stuff is still made in Benton Harbor, MI...


Also, don't forget Maytag and Amana appliances. Maytag (which recently bought Amana) is still based in Newton, IA (though for how long that will remain is the subject of some debate), and most Maytag and Amana appliances are still made in the USA, with most of their 'core' products still made in Newton, IA and Amana, IA respectively.

Are Speed Queen / Amana washers still made in Ripon, WI?

Also, I would suspect that most GE / Hotpoint large appliances (ovens, ranges, dishwashers, refrigerators, etc.) would also still be made in the USA, but I haven't looked recently. [If anyone knows differently, feel free to correct me.]

---

I can say that it's pretty hard, if not impossible to find a made in USA Freezer (Canadian would be OK too, since it's not a third-world country that exploits its workers.) After shopping around for one about 18 months ago, I decided not to add any more money to the pockets of the greedy, and bought a 20-year-old "Gibson" for $50. Still working good, and I'm $350 ahead.

I just bought an antique (30s?) electric oscillating fan from eBay rather than another throw-away piece of crap from China. Fits in nice with my living room decor, unlike some more plastic garbage.

Actually, I've used this approach for many of the things in my house...

Fridge/stove, Kenmore (1965)
Maytag Dishwasher came w/house (1995)
Garage fridge, Kelvinator (1947)

All 5 TVs are Zenith from 1958-1990 (I have more, but they aren't really used daily)

Audio system, 1967 Magnavox
Kenmore Washer (1968) Dryer (1983)
Kenmore Vacuum (1975) and newer US-made Oreck
Transoceanic Zenith radio (1972)

I will confess to a newer DVD/CD player, since that technology didn't exist back in the day. Also have a Sharp above the stove microwave, but only to save counter space. If I had room, I'd junk that barely-legible-LED POS and find an old Chrome Amana radarange, like the one we still use at work.

My '79 Zenith Chromacolor Space Command probably sees the most use out of all my TVs, several hours a day, and I don't feel like I'm giving up anything to modern TVs. I really don't need Stereo/Hi-Def to watch the crap that's on TV anyways.

Originally posted by andy
That spot after you turn the set off is completely harmless. Some CRTs do it for some reason.

Don't know why a color tube would do this. However, this would happen quite a bit with b&w CRTs in older sets; it's caused by the cathode still being hot enough, and the HV filter capacitors having enough of a charge after the set was turned off, to form an electron beam (stationary in the middle of the screen, of course, because the deflection circuits were not operating at this point). This spot could burn the phosphors in the center of the CRT, which is why set owners were often advised to turn up the brightness control just before turning the set off. In any case, the spot would disappear in a few moments, after the caps discharged and/or the CRT cathode cooled.

Carmine, I think you'd like the Radarange page I put together the other day :)
Chrome! (http://www.eldocountry.com/radarange/radar.html)

I'm contemplating building a place, all exterior and interior circa 1963! Of course I have to have a microwave and the Radaranges didn't come out till '67, but I don't think anyone is going to be that picky about the kitchen. Now would you believe I don't own a color roundie! :dunno:

Originally posted by Steve D.
I dug a little deeper into the "Zenith Electronics Corp." site, (not LG). Zenith lists several analog sets, in various screen sizes, in their current? lineup. Including 2 large "wood" consoles in traditional cabinet style. It seems strange, and 60's like, seeing these large oak sets with speakers behind sculptured cutouts on each side of the pix tube. I wonder if the remotes say "Space Command" on em?

Answering your question about the remotes first, no, I don't think so. Zenith quit using the Space Command designation for its remote control TVs some years ago; the new remotes, at least the ones I've seen recently, do not have the slogan printed anywhere on them. However, about five years ago, I saw a Zenith TV with a remote control known as the "Concierge series"; the name was probably, even likely, just an advertising gimmick as the remote was just your basic color-TV remote hand unit, nothing more and nothing less. These remotes were used with Zenith's hotel/motel TVs.

As to the console TVs in Zenith's 2004 product line, I agree with you. It does seem strange that any TV manufacturer would still be making console sets in fine wood cabinets (RCA has, or at least had, one console model in its product line a few years ago, and may still have it today). But Zenith and RCA may still be trying to convince consumers that they can build good sets, although I cannot help but wonder if those nice Zenith console cabinets have the same troublesome Goldstar chassis and CRTs in them.

The new sets in black plastic or silver-color cabinets aren't that bad looking; in fact, I think RCA/Thomson's new sets in their "diamond mist" silver color cabinets look as if they would fit in just perfectly with the decor of today's living/family rooms, and the earlier ebony-gray cabinets look fairly nice with most decors, IMO, as well. However, these sets can always be put in or on a wood entertainment center or TV stand if the appearance of the cabinet by itself is bothersome. I put my 1999 RCA XL-100 19" set on the top shelf of a modified oak utility cart, with the VCR and cable box directly below; I use the storage area at the bottom of the cabinet for storage of video tapes and such.

BTW, another poster mentioned that he doesn't need stereo sound or high-definition to watch the low-class stuff on most broadcast and cable networks. I agree. I am in no hurry whatsoever to get a high-definition TV and will not even consider it until the day comes when the local cable company has all seven Cleveland TV stations in HD (right now it only has two), the programming gets a lot better than it is now, and my old reliable CRT sets no longer work well, not necessarily in that order.

As to stereo sound: Most TVs with so-called stereo sound have two small transistor radio quality speakers at either side of or below the CRT; the sets are mostly table models, which are not nearly wide enough to provide good stereo separation--even most console "stereo" TV cabinets are not wide enough to separate the speakers enough for good stereo quality. I think the whole idea of stereo television was just an advertising gimmick to sell the then-new technology; the broadcasters, and eventually the cable networks, jumped on the bandwagon immediately, with the result that most U.S. TV networks and local affiliate stations, and almost all cable networks, now transmit MTS stereo sound.

But who's listening? I would say not very many people. Stereo television sound is a frill most viewers, except those of us with fancy-dancy home theater systems, are living without these days, and will continue to live without for years to come. The current MTS system does have its uses, however; consider the SAP system. This permits viewers to hear certain programs in Spanish. ABC telecasts its "World News Tonight" in Spanish on the SAP channel, while NBC's "Tonight Show with Jay Leno" may be heard in Spanish via this subchannel as well; the other networks may have news and other programs available in Spanish as well over the SAP subchannel--in fact, I think NBC telecasts its "Nightly News" in Spanish on this subcarrier and CBS may have one or more shows in Spanish via this service too.

Y'know Cory, if you're gonna go all out with the '60s house, you've just GOTTA have Flair in the kitchen. The Frigidaire Flair was an odd little range with a wall oven and - Works In A Drawer! Or pretty close to it...the cooktop pulled out of the wall. I've seen one up close - pretty interesting. I have a bigger pic of it on the drive - just too big to post.

And maybe one day I'll learn how to attach an image properly.

Jeff,

I hope you know I was being a little sarcastic in my "Space Command" reference. I also think those Zenith consoles are fiberboard with a printed wood veneer finish. This is an old technique that looks good and is very cost efficient.

And Charlie, I know this started out as a progress report on your two Zeniths. I guess it got hijacked along the way, but you've done a great job wedging your posts into YOUR thread.

Steve

Originally posted by Steve D.

And Charlie, I know this started out as a progress report on your two Zeniths. I guess it got hijacked along the way, but you've done a great job wedging your posts into YOUR thread.

Steve

And i thought everyone forgot all about me! :(

Well, as far as the roundie set, I went today to the parts house. They didn't have the 80/475 caps, but have ordered them for me. I got the 4/450's, and installed them, but only made some small differences. The B+ is about 50 to 60 volts too low, so I am hoping those three 80 mfd caps will correct it.

I was looking closer into the HV cage, and noticed that the flyback transformer in this thing is built like a rock! No chance of dripping wax like an RCA!

My only other wonder in the HO tube. Yeah... ya'll remember? Supposed to have the 8 pin 6DQ5, but has a 9-pin socket? So far, it APPEARS to be a factory installation of the socket. Maybe I should try looking to see if Sams listed in production changes in the index.

just learned earlier that there was a production change bulletin for this chassis listed in Sams 939-3. My Sams don't go quite that high, so if anyone has it, would you look and see what the production change was related to? It sure would help if it turns out it was related to the HO tube!

Kinda funny to think that it was so long before this PCB was published... from 599 (the set the original schematic was in) all the way up to set 939... that's about 6 years.

An amazing amount of stuff being covered in this thread!

TV Audio: I would much rather be listening to my 25MC33 or CTC-5 then to one of those new black box tv's, no matter that they are stereo. Who cares, with those crappy speakers?

Zenith: Seems like I've seen mexican Zenith stuff from the 70s-maybe just the modules were made there? Seems like they were sourcing radios & b/w tvs by the mid-70s from Taiwan mostly; one Zenith radio I have from that time period was made by GoldStar so I guess it was a longstanding relationship. Towards the end there really couldn't have been much left to do in an American Tv plant, just assembling the chassis (imported from Mexico or Asia) the crt (maybe still American made) and the cabinet (likely made by another company) I'd guess that it was only the cost of shipping the heavy crt's around the world that kept many companies here as long as they were. (I gather that there are still a number of companies making new crt's in the USA)

There was an interesting history of Admiral in Radio Age a year or so ago and it made light of the troubles they had making their own color picture tubes; they never did get them right, apparently. It would be interesting to get the whole story on that one. I recall that through the 80s and early 90s whenever Consumer Reports tested tv's they mentioned a greenish cast to the pictures of Zeniths. I remember comparing them in Sears or other stores and kind of wanting the Zeniths to make the best picture but they were always the worst of the bunch. The only later model set I saw in daily use belonged to the woman my wife used to board with. The color was okay but the pincushion circuit must have been totally dead.

And as for the root of this thread: maybe the "compactron" was just used in a short run, maybe an experiment or a way to use up some stock, or just used at the end of the run?

Another note: today I stopped by the local freight salvage store. Sometimes he will have some older items in there (maybe selling for a friend) and today he has a clean System 3 Space Command console w/Zoom. $99.99. There was a time when I would have bought it but have to save room for other things.

As far as I know Zenith never used the 6JE6 (9-pin Novar tube) as a factory design...the only non-octal H.O. tubes used on Zeniths appear to be 12-pin compactron bases.

There have been times when I converted a set that used an odd ball tube to something more common to simplify replacement (and future replacement)...this may be what happened here.

After several weeks of being on the back burner, i've finally got around to installing the new capacitors into this 29JC20Q. I've got all of the lytics changed, and probably just more than half of the black beauties out of there.

Things are beginning to shape up some, but I still have a good ways to go. Convergence is way off, the verticle rolls after a while, and the screen needs to be demagnatized. Audio is still lacking just a little, although it is much better than it was and the A/C hum is finally gone.

So far i have only changed a couple of tubes, while most of them I do not have. This set uses quite a few tubes that aren't as commonly seen. I have a friend here in town that probably can cover those for me.

TV reception isn't the greatest in my garage, so that doesn't help matters much, either.

While the horizontal circuits seem to be quite stable, i still need to get in there and see what kind of current is coming off the HO tube... especially since the tube I have in there is not what the book calls for. If you recall, this set is supposed to use the 8-pin 6DQ5 HO tube, but the chassis has the 9-pin socket, and I have a 6JE6 in there right now. Like i said, it seems to be working fine, but checking those voltages and currents would probably be a good idea.

Also noticed that the HV is a little low... around 21K. Book says it's supposed to be 24K. This may or may not be related to the HO tube issue. I did swap in a new 3A3, but that made no difference in the HV.

A couple of photos below show some progress.

and another...

I've got a 25LC20 chassis - where did those sit in terms of Zenith's development of color TVs? I think it's from '63 or '64 - it uses a 21FBP22. This was right when they were going over to the metal can Xtal, as opposed to the 'tube envelope' one.

It's functional, but I still can't get the color or alignment just right :( But it's had ZERO capacitor replacement. I hate aligning TVs, and hate aligning colors even more. I can barely get the curves shown in the book, and that's assuming the sweep alignment rig works right. Anyone got any hints on a good sweep/marker setup? I have the RCA WR-whatever boxes, they work, but are flakey as heck, and cables EVERYWHERE.

Oh yeah - anyone else with a 25LC20 here? Mine's got 1 core in T4, but the print shows 2 cores and the book seems to suggest it too. Should I assume only 1 was a running change?

The tube is weak, too. Does anyone still rebuild these? I've heard VDC (?) does it, but every time I call....

The color killer is messed up (I suppose MOST of the the set is...) it's more like a 2nd color control than a killer.

But, it works! :) And that's 1/2 the battle.

I have a CTC-16 next to it, that also needs repair, and has by far the most 'nervous' horizontal hold I've ever seen - it jitters back and forth a LOT. It's also not very sensitive, despite being a Nuvistor tunner...

I have in the basement a Sylvania 580 (CTC-15 knockoff). The vertical died on it a while back and I'm too lazy to fix it now (HUGE set).

Was Zenith the only ones who used those funky beam switch tubes for the color?

To my knowledge, Zenith was the only manufacturer which used the 6JH8 "sheet-beam" demodulator tubes; I can remember an old TV commercial from the early 60s boasting of "Zenith's patented color demodulator".

I always thought that the '62-'72 Zeniths had better color than the RCA sets; if you watched a football game on a Zenith, the field was really green instead of a blueish-green.

I worked for a Zenith dealer 25 years ago, and worked on most of their tube color sets. Charlie's picture tube is a rebuilt tube; if it is a Zenith it was probably installed by a Zenith service dealer. The 29JC20 and the later tube Zeniths were much easier to work on than some of the other makes.

Nasa,

VDC in Dallas will rebuild your 21FBP for 165 bucks (not including the shipping). Their phone number is 800-323-9278. Ask for Phil.

He really doesn't like to ship these, but he has come up with a way that he feels will get the tube back to you safely in one piece.

Keep in mind... due to the nature of these tubes being 40+ years old, he will not guarantee you the rebuild will be successful. He has done many 21FBP's for a few of us here on AK with mainly excellent results. But, there has been a failure or two... usually the glass cracking while in the oven. So, it's kinda a gamble on your part. So far, I have brought him 4 duds and 3 of them were a success. He is also currently rebuilding another 21FBP for one of our west coast members.

Phil can give you all of the details when you speak to him.

Good luck!

Charlie, if the rebuild fails or the tube breaks do you still have to pay the full $165?

Eric

Originally posted by Eric H
Charlie, if the rebuild fails or the tube breaks do you still have to pay the full $165?

Eric

Yes, that's the only bad part. He made that clear to me.

However, I had one of my tubes regunned, and it turned out that the new gun itself had a short. In this case, they will try again without charging for it.

Hmm, I'll have to look into that.

Now - when was the 25LC20 chassis made, anyway? Was this early or late in Zenith roundie land? I know pre '64 - the set doesn't have UHF at all (but a click stop for it, but hey! someone stole the strip in that slot!). Oh yeah, any help on what a good sweep generator/marker setup is - mine seems to suck :(

Actually, any hints on getting the alignment would be useful, mine's almost right in B&W, but I'm getting that 'echo' effect on vertical lines, (i.e., a few lighter repeated lines next to it - should I keep plugging away at the alignment, or am I really seeing something in the Y amp that's messed up?). And no color when set for a nice clean B&W pic. Actually, I can get darn near amazing B&W reception on it. But hey, it's a color TV! I want my color, too!

As far as tackling this set capacitorwise - it's got a LOT of those early 'brown drop' epoxy capacitors - like Orange Drops but brown. Are they in the Black Beauty catagory, or are they ok? I've only got a few BBs and such in this set...

Better color than RCA? I'll have to wait until the tube's rebuilt. I'm not sure if this thing's rare earth or not - the screen's that dark green tint when off, and the reds aren't orange on this set. The RCA next to it? Reds so red they're orange...

Sigh...I'm getting there, slowly, I guess...

This is something handy that Doug had posted some time ago...

Just so you know, zenith followed a chassis date pattern, in which the first letter in the chassis represents the year of the chassis, like "20Y1C48", in which "Y" is 1968, so:

M 65
N 66
X 67
Y 68
Z 69
A 70
B 71
C 72
D 73
E 74

Although Doug's list starts at 65, it would be safe to assume that the following would apply:

J 62
K 63
L 64

Nasa, you mentioned your set not having a UHF tuner. Did they become standard equipment part way thru 64? Your chassis could be a very early 64 model.

Is your CRT the A version? 21FBP22A? IIRC, isn't the 'A' supposed to signify improved brightness and rare earth phosphors?

Originally posted by nasadowsk
Hmm, I'll have to look into that.

Now - when was the 25LC20 chassis made, anyway? Was this early or late in Zenith roundie land? I know pre '64 - the set doesn't have UHF at all (but a click stop for it, but hey! someone stole the strip in that slot!)

I'm not at all sure, but maybe there never was a strip for the UHF position in Zenith TVs made before 1964. I once had a Sams Photofact for the 25LC20/Q (the Q after the model number denoting Space Command remote equipped); the picture of the set on the front of the folder seemed to be of the 25LC20, VHF only.

Generally, the only way to get UHF channels on any TV made prior to April 30, 1964 was to use a UHF converter ahead of the set's own tuner. The VHF tuner was set to channel 5 or 6 to receive the converter's output (whichever was an inactive channel in the set owner's area--either channel 5 or 6 are always unused in any TV market, since the two channels are adjacent to each other) and all UHF tuning was done at the converter.


Some markets, such as Fresno, California, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Youngstown, Ohio, et al. (areas which got their TV stations after the FCC quit issuing new VHF licenses), only had UHF TV channels and still do today. Back in the '50s, when these stations first went on the air, TV receiver dealers in those cities marketed specially-built all-channel sets (and, of course, converters for older VHF-only receivers) before they were available in markets with only VHF stations. I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland and remember when the city's first UHF station (PBS channel 25) went on the air. The year was 1965 and we had just gotten a 17" Sears Silvertone all-channel b&w portable TV. While the VHF reception from our three network stations (channels 3, 5 and 8 at the time) was good, reception on channel 25 was terrible in our area, which was about 30 miles southwest of the transmitters. I later found out what part of the problem was, while watching channel 25 sign off one night; the PBS channel was only running 1 megawatt ERP, and we were trying to watch it just using a UHF loop antenna in our near-fringe area!

BTW, I now live in a definite fringe area for all VHF TV channels and FM stereo radio (45 miles from the transmitters) and have cable for TV, as does just about everyone else here in my small town. The irony of it is, however, that all four of Cleveland's UHF channels (except PBS 25) come in here just great, using rabbit ears. I have discovered as well that the PBS channel I had such problems with back in the '60s (again, channel 25) now has a translator station just about five miles or so from my hometown, and another one not too terribly far from where I live today. I guess translators aren't dead yet.

Finally got the verticle roll to stop. Two black-beauties, although they checked well within specs, evidently just couldn't do the job. They were .01 1000v caps, and while i didn't have any in orange drops, i did find a couple of .01 2kv disc capacitors that i stuck in there. Seem to be holding the picture just fine.

One problem fixed... many more to go! Progress... at least I am making progress!

I live about midway between Youngstown and Pittsburgh, and am about 35 miles from each one. In this area, I have seen TV sets made as far back as the mid-1950s equipped with factory UHF tuners; we had an old Zenith which had one. Zenith evidently had UHF strips available for their older sets at one time; I have a Zenith 28T962 porthole set from 1949 which has a UHF strip installed in its massive "cement mixer" tuner. Of course, the switch-type tuner used by RCA in the 630 and subsequent sets left the setowner with no choice but to add an external UHF converter.

Nasa, you mentioned your set not having a UHF tuner.

No UHF. Hey, just call me Naz :) It has a click stop for UHF. The little strip on the turret isn't there, though. The tuner has a jack for UHF tunner input.

Interestingly, I had a Zenith from the 50's that had UHF on it.

Did they become standard equipment part way thru 64? Your chassis could be a very early 64 model.

No idea. I'm running with the theory it's a 1964 or 1963 at this point.

Is your CRT the A version? 21FBP22A? IIRC, isn't the 'A' supposed to signify improved brightness and rare earth phosphors?

I'll have to peek behind there and check. It's not a very bright CRT, that's for sure. I'm not sure if that's a function of it being a wasted (It goes through some fun white point shifts as it heats up, and it quite dim the first few min, plus the focus isn't too teribbly sharp), or not being very bright to begin with. I know the set next to it in my room has rare earths, and it's quite a bit brighter.

The earlier non rare earth CRTs - how close to the NTSC standard were they by this point? I know the 15GP22s, etc were supposedly dead on, but were the later non rare earth types also close?

This morning I found another black beauty that was the cause of my slightly low HV... i was lacking about 3kv. Now the HV is back up where it's supposed to be.

I took readings off the mysterious HO circuit. The current is within specs... i think it was running about 187ma. At least I know that I'm not putting it under a strain by having a tube in there that the book does not call for.

Today I got a really good picture out of the Zenith. I found that the AGC was turned up just a tad too much, and after re-adjusting it, things shaped up on the screen very nicely. :cool:

Now, a new problem has developed. :cry:

Tonight, I was making convergence adjustments, and lost focus and could hear something sizzling. :eek: Oh great now what? Anyway, it turns out that the focus tube had a small light show goin on inside it towards the bottom of the tube. I swapped it out twice, but on each replacement, I still have the small light show and sizzling. :scratch2:

Any ideas? What could cause this condition? :dunno:
Naturally this would have to turn up just when I thought I was nearly finished! :dammit:

After examining the inside of the 1V2 tube socket, it turned out that there was a fair amount of corrosion and other crap around the pin holes. I used a small piece of sandpaper and some alcohol on a q-tip to clean it out. Popped the old 1V2 back in and PRESTO! Back in service with no arcing in the tube. :D

After that, I continued with the convergence. I was unable to do a good job at the top and right sides of the screen. The top just wouldn't come together, and the coils that use a platic hex tool to take care of the right side of the screen seem to be frozen in place. Well, my hex tools are getting a little worn, so perhaps that's why I couldn't get a good bite on it. Maybe tomorrow I'll go buy a new set and try again.

The final result was a lot better than what I started with, but I am not finding the colors to be very rich on all programs. Seems that different stations on the cable have different levels of color. For instance, if I tune in C-span, I have to turn the chroma down a good bit. On most of the other channels, the chroma needed to be turn up nearly all the way for a decent picture. I noticed one channel that the color wouldn't lock into sync, and another channel that wouldn't tune color at all (but yet on other sets there was color). I have noticed the same thing on my cable channels on my CM color set, but it's not so bad that I have to adjust the chroma for each channel.

The picture tube is a little weak on the green gun, but it seems okay considering.

I'm sure that i'll be able to tweak it here and there as time goes on. Maybe I'll find something else that needs changing.

Here's a cable shot from C-Span.

Charlie,

Nice progress, picture looks great so far. zenith sets are known for that arcing in the 1v2 socket. Both of mine did the same thing, however the sockets were so far gone from arcing they had to be replaced. IN the other set, the socket was already replaced at one time, and I needed to replace it again. What I find works great for preventing the arcing/corrosion is some anti corrosion electrical contact grease. It doesnt conduct, even at high voltage, so its safe to use around the tube pins.
Good luck finishing the restoration

i think your set has a pretty darn good picture. As for the chroma adjusting..... I know this might seem like a pretty dumb tip, but have you checked EVERY tube in the set and replaced ALL bad ones yet? Some people think that is "overkill" but it tends to make a set operate at peak performance and you have allot less f****ng around to do. I do that with all my sets before I do any adjusting. vacuumtubesinc is a great site to get tubes cheap!!! You've got a great set there!!!!!!

Originally posted by jstout66
have you checked EVERY tube in the set and replaced ALL bad ones yet?

I found only two zenith tubes in the set, so most have been changed in the past. I've changed more than half of tubes. The B+ is good, so I left the two LV rectifiers in there. Same goes for HV... it's healthy as well. I didn't have the verticle or demodulator tubes, so those haven't been swapped yet. Everything else has been changed.

My tube tester is an old NRI unit... probably from the late 40s or early 50s. It works great, but doesn't have listings for any of the more "modern" tubes used in the 60s. In those cases I just swap it out with a known good one to see if there is any improvement.

Originally posted by Charlie

The final result was a lot better than what I started with, but I am not finding the colors to be very rich on all programs. Seems that different stations on the cable have different levels of color.


Picture quality looks pretty good to me, Charlie. Neat looking set too!
As for the problem with the color level changing from channel to channel, this may be a silly question (especially since I'm not familiar with older Zenith color sets), but does that TV even have automatic chroma gain in the first place..? I'm not sure exactly when color TVs first started having that feature, so I may be a bit off base here. The chroma amp does sound a bit weak, though, if you can't get color at all (or color sync isn't stable) on some channels. In any case, readjusting the color (chroma) level control after switching channels is pretty much normal operating procedure for color TVs not having auto chroma gain.

BTW, in response to the UHF discussion in this thread, I believe TVs started becoming available with factory-installed UHF tuners starting in 1952 or '53; it's just that UHF-equipped sets weren't all that popular in many markets until the FCC mandated them in mid-1964.

On a related note, I was just thinking-- just how feasible would it be to alter the tuning range of an old outboard UHF converter to use it as a cable TV tuner instead..? That way you could avoid the need for "modern" equipment (i.e. a cable box or VCR) to serve this purpose.

my advice if anyone is looking for a good tube tester, is to get a B&K 667. In my opinion those are the best, most durable ones to use when working on tv's. (they're not the best on older tubes used in radios) Anyway, they can be gotten pretty cheaply on eBay and they are small, easy to use, accurate, and durable! Just my two cents.......

I agree with james. The b+k 667 is an excellent tester for TV use. I have used one, but dont own one. I have a sencore mightymite VII which is from the mid 70's so it has all the odd ball compactrons in the listings. It is essential that your tube tester have the capability of testing for grid emission (or sometimes called "grid leakage") Most tubes in TV's will test OK on emission but will fail grid emission tests, IF and signal amp tubes in particular are prone to grid emission failure. Also, LIFE TEST function is very helpful as this shows the quality of emission if the filament voltage is dropped. Most newer testers have those capabilitys. I like james like to test EVERY tube in a set before I go any further in diagnosis, as you can rule out the tube thing as a potential problem. Even if a set works just fine, I like to test every tube, as some tubes indicate shorts or other problems that dont effect the set, but will over time if not corrected.