...it is what it is...

:thmbsp::thumbsdn:

Kinda knew how it came out already. If they were faithful to the historical account the LUCKY ones got shot, quickly, cleanly, & mercifully.

Kinda knew how it came out already. If they were faithful to the historical account the LUCKY ones got shot, quickly, cleanly, & mercifully.

And Hitler escaped all 42 attempts on his life. Like you said, if they were faithful to the historical account.

I see no real reason to watch this flick. YMMV.

Not gonna ruin the end, but I knew the story before hand, and from what I know, it seemed to be pretty on target..

I have not saw the movie but....


If only he'd put the second pound of plastic explosives he had in the brief case.

It's a fecking Tom Cruise movie- you wanted substance????

It's a fecking Tom Cruise movie- you wanted substance????

You wanted acting???

LOL.. Too funny.. Yeah.. you're both right..

Hey! Tom's just trying to right himself in his world:D
An egotistical hollywood buffoon in my estimate, but what do I know?
Regards,
Jim

"Rainman" was his least-objectionable movie, IMHO.

My favorite Tom Cruise movie is Austin Powers- Goldmember.

:D

I think part of what took away too was there wasn't even any German accent.. I mean at least Hogan's Heros seemed more authenic as far as that..

This is a film that should have been made by German filmmakers.
Films like "Das Boot" and "Downfall" not only are supreme pieces of history on film, but really work because they are in fact, done in German, by Germans.

I'll take a look at "Valkyrie", but I don't expect much beyond great production design.

C.

I enjoyed the movie.... I've always been a Tom Cruise fan though....

If you get a chance check out Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder....

Films like "Das Boot" and "Downfall" not only are supreme pieces of history on film, but really work because they are in fact, done in German, by Germans.



Agree. Downfall is an absolutely riveting movie. Overlooked by many.

Snade

Cruise did just fine in Minority Report, Vanilla Sky, & Last Samurai, and then there is everything else.

Now let's be fair about old Tom- Born on the Fourth of July was close to an Oscar caliber performance. When he sets his mind to it, he can get it done. Risky Business was not so bad either.

As for Germans making this film, they have already. There are at least 2 versions that were made in Germany. But the German film industry is not Hollywood. I would like to see those versions, but I would be skeptical as von Stauffenberg is revered as a hero there, for obvious reasons, but his motives might not have been completely benign. Why did he wait so long? I mean, didn't a good read of Mein Kampf tip everyone off? If not, invading Poland surely was a warning sign. I digress...


Easy for me to say, but one of those guys should have walked right up to Hitler and emptied a clip into his head.

I guess I should see this film.....:scratch2:

Und Similost mein Freund, Hogans' Heroes had decent German accents because those actors were actually Germans for the most part.:yes:

Hey Charles, Grille is going tomorrow too.. :thmbsp:

Now let's be fair about old Tom- Born on the Fourth of July was close to an Oscar caliber performance. When he sets his mind to it, he can get it done. Risky Business was not so bad either.

Have not seen the first & forgot about the second.

Thinking about "Taps" I did like the scene with the M60 -

"This is beautiful man, just beautiful!"

I just want to know if they glorified the guy or not...even though he wanted Hitler gone, he was douche bag nazi.

Cruise did just fine in Vanilla Sky

"Vanilla Sky" is a remake of the spanish film "Abre los ojos" (open your eyes) from the spanish (born in Chile) director Alejandro Amenabar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abre_los_ojos

In my opinion, the original film is much better.

By the way, the first film of Amenabar, "Tesis" (Thesis) is a great thriller:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesis

All the best

I just want to know if they glorified the guy or not...even though he wanted Hitler gone, he was douche bag nazi.

You are misinformed. He never joined the Nazi Party:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_Schenk_Graf_von_Stauffenberg

So he was not a Nazi at all.

It's a fecking Tom Cruise movie- you wanted substance????

Met Tom Cruise when they were filming "Topgun". My squadron (VF-21) shared hangar space with the real Topgun squadron in Hangar 1 at NAS Miramar, San Diego in the early '80s.

You're right, 'Toze. He's a conceited superficial jackass, IMHO.

However, the subject matter intrigues me, being a WWII buff.
So I think I may go check it out. If I can stand 2 1/2 hours of
Cruises prettyboy primadonna bull**it, that is.

T.C. fans; It's just my opinion, so don't get your panties in a bunch.

Dave

German accent not neccessary. Check James Mason as Rommel in an old black and white; I believe "Desert Rats".
I have not seen the Valkyrie movie, but it appears that Tom's PR issues has worked against him.

And Similost mein Freund, Hogans' Heroes had decent German accents because those actors were actually Germans for the most part.:yes:

Ja, das stimmt! :yes: ...although sometimes the accent was laid on a little thick, for dramatic effect. Great show, as were Das Boot und auch Downfall. German cinema may not have all the special effects of Hollyweird, but they sure can tell a riveting story when they want to! :yes:

I suppose I will see Valkyrie... probably after it comes out on DVD. :D

[QUOTE=Jack Lord;2352217]Now let's be fair about old Tom- Born on the Fourth of July was close to an Oscar caliber performance. When he sets his mind to it, he can get it done.


was it tom cruise or oliver stone? i think the movie itself was oscar grade, i think anyone could have played that role well given that it was an oliver stone flick. his stuff seems actorproof, just my opinion.

[QUOTE=Jack Lord;2352217]Now let's be fair about old Tom- Born on the Fourth of July was close to an Oscar caliber performance. When he sets his mind to it, he can get it done.


was it tom cruise or oliver stone? i think the movie itself was oscar grade, i think anyone could have played that role well given that it was an oliver stone flick. his stuff seems actorproof, just my opinion.

Even Keanu Reeves????

[QUOTE=getrigt99;2358497]

Even Keanu Reeves????

i meant actual actors, sorry should have specified.

Nothing says "Christmas" like a nazi film.

dew.

was it tom cruise or oliver stone? i think the movie itself was oscar grade, i think anyone could have played that role well given that it was an oliver stone flick. his stuff seems actorproof, just my opinion.

I reckon it was both. One of the director's many tasks is to coax the best performance possible out of the actor. But the actor still must deliver.

Playing the role of Ron Kovic required a lot of transitions: From walking to wheelchair. From gung ho Marine to radical anti-war activist. It also required an unusually large array of emotions- patriotism, puppy love, courage, recklessness, anger, extreme despair and hopelessness and finally a redemption of sorts.

A bad actor could not have done the job. Cruise really reached in to himself and pulled it off. Nobody can watch that performance and tell me it was not exceptional. What's a shame is that it may well have been his apex, although as he ages, he may have to find more roles with depth as action roles diminish.

You're right, 'Toze. He's a conceited superficial jackass, IMHO.


i`m wondering what star these days wouldn`t fit that description, and besides i`m not going out drinking with the guy i`m giving him my 50 bucks to be entertained for a couple of hours. if he can do that sucessfully, i don`t give a rats ass what he does on his days off.

When you jump on a couch and talk inanity:then your work and ability are not taken seriously. Tom's 4 of July acting was first class.

Maybe I don't know this tale of history, but initial thought was that I have no desire to see it. I'm way more interested in that Viggo Mortensen WWII film...

There were a lot of attempts on Hitler, unfortunately none of them successful.

An officer named Oster actually attempted to put together a coup as early as 1938, with the help of police and different military divisions. Didn't work out either. He could very likely have stopped WW2 from happening.

I don't think there's been a film version of that story.

C.

I will digress for a moment, since I have not yet seen Valkyrie.

However, I have seen and own Das Boot - absolutely love that story! If you like that one, check out Stalingrad - same director as Das Boot. Have the heater turned up in the house, though! The winter scenes are so realistic, they will leave you shivering. Also, be forewarnd - the movie is depressing.

As far as Tom Cruise goes, check him out in Magnolia. It is a very funny, bizarre, non-mainstream movie and he is cast perfectly in his role. His final scene is heartbreaking and trust me, I have suffered through many of Tom's poor performances.

Yeah, I may be in a WWII kind of mood - maybe I'll watch The Pianist, or Schindler's List, or Band o' Bros, or A Bridge Too Far, or...........

If you like that one, check out Stalingrad

Are you talking about this film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalingrad_(film)) ? I saw it many years ago and thought of it as one of the best war movies ever. I´d be pleased to watch it again.

All the best

Yep, that's the one. I used to know more about Wolfgang Peterson, the director, but have forgotten why he has such a handle on his material as told from the German point of view.

Watch it again and enjoy! I would rank Peterson's WWII classics with Lawrence of Arabia.

I will be taking my grandfather to go see this movie . I'll want to see how it compares to his account of what was going on at the time and the propaganda spin put on it by the SS . That and Gran Torino , he really wants to see the Eastwood movie , I am kind of dragging him to go see Valkyrie .

By the way, Rommel was implicated in the Valkyrie affair and was given a choice:take poison or harm would come to his family. He took the poison.

By the way, Rommel was implicated in the Valkyrie affair and was given a choice:take poison or harm would come to his family. He took the poison.

Quite true. And his son grew up to become the very popular Lord Mayor of Stuttgart.

This thread puts me in a World War II mood: A Bridge Too Far, Desert Rats. I would certainly like to get a copy of Cross Of Iron.

I would certainly like to get a copy of Cross Of Iron.


Another masterpiece!

Greetings for everybody!

The wife and I saw Valkyre last week. I have no feelings toward Cruise one way or the other. Both of us thought it was a very good movie.

I brought up the part about the actors not having German accents to my wife. She offered a reason that the more I think of it, the more it makes sense. She said everyone one knows Cruise isn't German so why fake it? -- just get out of the way and let the actual story come through -- and I believe the movie does that.

A really excellent movie.
I was surprised by how good Cruise was in the role. I guess I also get so caught up in the drama of his life that I forget he can be a damn fine actor.
Very restrained performance, just right for the type of man that he was. Some of his best work in ages.

Nothing would have been less realistic, than having them speak in German accents. I doubt too many of them spoke accented English amongst themselves....

A really excellent movie.
I was surprised by how good Cruise was in the role. I guess I also get so caught up in the drama of his life that I forget he can be a damn fine actor.
Very restrained performance, just right for the type of man that he was. Some of his best work in ages.

Nothing would have been less realistic, than having them speak in German accents. I doubt too many of them spoke accented English amongst themselves....

If any country other than Germany or Austria makes a film about WWII, there is always the language question. "Sophie's Choice" pulled it off by going totally realistic, but the scenes were flashbacks and thus not the entire movie. I liked how Hunt for Red October dealt with the Russian language- a few scenes in actual Russian and then a switch to English.

Now, the inevitable question is:

If the German film industry makes a movie about the American West, do the actors speak German with an American accent or just do it in English?:D

If any remember Schindler's List, of course, Oskar Schindler was also made out to be a regular "Mother Theresa" as well. Truth is, was he? I don't wish to argue politics, especially Nazi Philosophies, but from what I understand, in another famous movie, with some errors in it, it truthfully was not only General Patton who wanted to turn around, and command the Germans, to fight the Russians.

I think the largest problem with movies such as Valkerie, and Tom Cruise as an Actor playing the leading role, is we as americans, seeing Tom Cruise acting in so many different roles, have typecast him.

We think of Maverick, Rainman, Risky Business, Cocktail, etc. Sort of akin to Al Lewis Playing Grandpa in the Munsters, Fred Gwynn as Herman, etc.
When they finally play a really good role, they then lack the recognition they deserve.

Had an unknown played the part, the movie probably would've garnered greater respect. Just my opinion of course.

If any remember Schindler's List, of course, Oskar Schindler was also made out to be a regular "Mother Theresa" as well. Truth is, was he? I don't wish to argue politics, especially Nazi Philosophies, but from what I understand, in another famous movie, with some errors in it, it truthfully was not only General Patton who wanted to turn around, and command the Germans, to fight the Russians.

I think the largest problem with movies such as Valkerie, and Tom Cruise as an Actor playing the leading role, is we as americans, seeing Tom Cruise acting in so many different roles, have typecast him.

We think of Maverick, Rainman, Risky Business, Cocktail, etc. Sort of akin to Al Lewis Playing Grandpa in the Munsters, Fred Gwynn as Herman, etc.
When they finally play a really good role, they then lack the recognition they deserve.

Had an unknown played the part, the movie probably would've garnered greater respect. Just my opinion of course.

Great observation. I agree with you. I thought it was an excellent movie. Those who have strong opinions on Cruise most likely won't see it that way.

Nothing says "Christmas" like a nazi film.Lol! :lmao:

That occured to me weeks ago...why a Nazi film at Christmas?"Vanilla Sky" is a remake of the spanish film "Abre los ojos" (open your eyes) from the spanish (born in Chile) director Alejandro Amenabar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abre_los_ojos

In my opinion, the original film is much better.Yes it is...plus a really great boob-shot of Penélope Cruz, who was at her peak in this film.

Great observation. I agree with you. I thought it was an excellent movie. Those who have strong opinions on Cruise most likely won't see it that way.

Well cruise is a hack at best. That aside, I do not see the point in this movie. I saw the "made for TV"? version in the late 70s, early 80s. This new one to me, is just another hollywood remake, like so many other remakes that gets produced, simply because hollywood lacks any great amount of creativity.

Well cruise is a hack at best. That aside, I do not see the point in this movie. I saw the "made for TV"? version in the late 70s, early 80s. This new one to me, is just another hollywood remake, like so many other remakes that gets produced, simply because hollywood lacks any great amount of creativity.

Diagree with you all the way around.

Not a huge fan of Tom Cruise as a person, but he certainly has acted well in a number of movies. A "hack" he is not.

Actually, it is a pretty bold move on the part of 'Hollywood' to make this movie. Most people do not know this story, and it is indeed a compelling and powerful one.

I've actually enjoyed quite a few of Tom's performances. His best work, to me, were in "Rainman" and "A Few Good Men". I'll be looking forward to this movie.

Actually, it is a pretty bold move on the part of 'Hollywood' to make this movie. Most people do not know this story, and it is indeed a compelling and powerful one.

I disagree with the "bold move" description. How many people knew of Shindler? Yet they made a movie about him.

People may not know the story but, put some big name actors in German uniforms, circa 1940, and people will watch it. People know something of World War II and Nazi Germany.

I disagree with the "bold move" description. How many people knew of Shindler? Yet they made a movie about him.

People may not know the story but, put some big name actors in German uniforms, circa 1940, and people will watch it. People know something of World War II and Nazi Germany.

Not sure what your point is. Yes, it was a movie with big name actors, yes plenty of people watched it. Does that automatically make it bad? I don't think so. Everybody has their opinions on certain actors, movies, etc.

I knew nothing of the Valkryie story before the movie. So from that standpoint, it broadened my knowledge of this historical event. And, for me, it was compelling to watch which makes it a win-win for me. To each their own, though.

Well, I finally went to see it and thoroughly enjoyed it. The jackass did pretty darn good. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, I guess.

Anyhow, the movie was great, IMHO.

Dave

Is this movie the cruise way of making up with "Hollywood's elite?" :scratch2:

Not sure what your point is. Yes, it was a movie with big name actors, yes plenty of people watched it. Does that automatically make it bad? I don't think so. Everybody has their opinions on certain actors, movies, etc.




I was commenting on Bigwerik's comment that this was a "bold" move for Hollywood to make this movie, since not many people knew the story. My point was, I do not see this as bold, anymore than making Shindler's List. No one knew who he was either.

In fact I do not see Hollywood making any bold moves these days.

Now, the inevitable question is:

If the German film industry makes a movie about the American West, do the actors speak German with an American accent or just do it in English?:D

I never saw a film version, but while visiting Germany as an exchange student I saw an outdoor drama based on a Karl May book. It was quite unintentionally funny, and I fought hard not to laugh out loud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May

I disagree with the "bold move" description. How many people knew of Shindler? Yet they made a movie about him.

People may not know the story but, put some big name actors in German uniforms, circa 1940, and people will watch it. People know something of World War II and Nazi Germany.

Many are fascinated with this era. How could such a highly "civilised" nation reduced itself to that level? What were they thinking opening so many fronts? Moreover there is a grudging admiration for the fighting skill of the German professional military.

Many are fascinated with this era. How could such a highly "civilised" nation reduced itself to that level?

To discuss that question, would require more than a 2.5 hour movie from Hollywood.

What were they thinking opening so many fronts?

Yeah like they did in the first world war?

Moreover there is a grudging admiration for the fighting skill of the German professional military.

True, but, I don't think they were all that better. They were sure great against Poland, Belgium, and the Netherlands... :D

True, but, I don't think they were all that better. They were sure great against Poland, Belgium, and the Netherlands... :D

And France, Britain and Russia. The whooped the armies of all of them. Just didn't have the sheer numbers and economic might necessary to win.

And France, Britain and Russia. The whooped the armies of all of them. Just didn't have the sheer numbers and economic might necessary to win.



They certainly did have the numbers and economic might to defeat England by 1940?. They just screwed up. They let all those French and English troops escape from Dunkirk and they lost the air war over Britain. You could blame this on poor strategic decisions made at the top. It takes more than a bunch of Professional foot soldiers to win a war. Germany's espionage effort in Europe was sophomoric at best. The resources wasted in building V2 and to a lesser degree V1 rockets for little effect, was a further strategic blunder. And there were other big strategic mistakes made.

I believe from what I have read that the citizen soldier of the U.S. matched well against the "pros" of Germany. Our troops just got a lot of OJT and this lead to a higher initial casualty rate. :sigh:

whats OJT?

The Russian front swallowed the Wehrmacht. Stalingrad and Kursk(the largest tank battle in history) were major turning points.

whats OJT?

Hopefully it has nothing to do with OJ.

Russia? They whooped Russia? Weren't there Russian soldiers standing on top the bunker when the supreme coward bravely killed himself? Kinda hard to see that they whooped Russia when the Red Army kept them on the run all the way from Moscow to Berlin, once the tide was turned.

Sorry, guess I'm getting off topic.

I'll stop now.

Dave

The movie was good. I'd watch it again, despite the fact that I have severe Tom Cruise issues. (Meet him once. You'll hate him for life.)

Dave

whats OJT?

On the Job Training, in other words, "trial by fire"...

I was commenting on Bigwerik's comment that this was a "bold" move for Hollywood to make this movie, since not many people knew the story. My point was, I do not see this as bold, anymore than making Shindler's List. No one knew who he was either.

In fact I do not see Hollywood making any bold moves these days.

I certainly agree with you on that. The mainstream movies that receive 99 percent of the promotion are geared toward the teen crowd and are pretty much crap to adults wanting something with more depth.

Tom Cruise is just an OK actor but I'll see the movie as I love movies about Nazi Germany.
At the beginning of WWII Germany had the most powerful army in the world. There was a point where they had won the war and won it easily. If they hadn't decided to take on the Russians they would be in control of Europe today.
Yes, I'm rambling but I was a history major in college.

same for Napoleon...

Yes, taking on the Russians, especially during the winter in a "ground war" seems to be a huge mistake, historically.

Oh, and; Thank God the Nazis lost!

Dave