Folks,

This forum is about early color television but given that analog broadcasting is ending soon everywhere and that CRT televisions are getting rarer and rarer what do you guys consider early... pre 1970 ...only roundies? only tube based sets?

I have a large screen LCD HD set for my main use, a late 90s cheapo 21" for use in the spare room (actually seems to be a Toshiba inside) and a 1976 Sony 18" for occasional use.

Soon the 21" will be a decade old... and CRTs a thing of the past.... mmm makes you pause and consider what that really means!

It seems like most TV collectors consider "early color TV" pre 1965 and I agree with this. Some people consider this too new. I think there are a number of collectors who's cut off line is anything newer than about 1960 or so. Color TV really started to take off in sales in the mid 60's so I would guess that having a color TV from the mid to late 60's wasnt really considered a novelty as much as it would have been in the 50's. This makes "early color TV" a bit more special I guess. Thats just my opinion though.

I think most participating members would like to see discussions pertaining to nothing newer than 1965 models. This would be for USA made TVs of course as I understand europe and australia started color TV transmissions at a much later time.

I've come to think that any color roundie fits the definition.

I've come to think that any color roundie fits the definition.
Ditto

Hi,

here in Europe, every rectangular color tv set from 1967 though 1972 might be considered as very "early color TV". They are much rarer than b/w tv sets from the 1950's. And here in Europe, from all the countries, such old color tv sets only exist in UK, Germany and in France. In France, they are practically unavailable. Most of the countries in Europe got color tv later than 1967.

- Eckhard

Folks, the Australian experience is much the same as Europe.... we got colour broadcasting in 1975 (yes ... 22 years after US color TV broadcasting began) so with the exception of a minute number of sets imported for testing, the earliest sets here date from 1974 or 1975.

I have yet to see a roundie here.

So for us "early colour" has to be anything from the 70s!

Eckhard and others,

Perhaps you have seen this video but I though it was good peice of history. This is a clip of Bert Kaempfert and his orchestra recorded live on TV. This broadcast was live on August 26, 1967 and was Germany's second day of color TV broadcasting. This broadcast was to showcase the new color TV technology. Be sure to read the posters description of the video. This would be good to watch on the early German TV. Bert Kaempfert was very popular in USA at this time.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HKdcMYRhUeA

Philco used the round crt technology until around 1970, and some of those sets were hybrid technology, I agree with Doug, I would say anything up through 1964, after that the rectangular crt's were coming in big and manufacturers only sold round tube models to get rid of old inventory.

But for most of us the fifties was the age of wonder, when color tv was the future at hand. Although most people were scared away by the high prices, the sets themselves were capable of producing excellent pictures for the most part.

Eckhard and others, Perhaps you have seen this video but I though it was good piece of history. This is a clip of Bert Kaempfert and his orchestra recorded live on TV. This broadcast was live on August 26, 1967 and was Germany's second day of color TV broadcasting. This broadcast was to showcase the new color TV technology. Be sure to read the posters description of the video. This would be good to watch on the early German TV.

drh4683: This is a wellknown video foir me! I have a video of this early color broadcast which I recorded on Aug. 26th, 1997 on the 30. anniversary of PAL color television. I have placed the beginning of this broadcast on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11XMda-7pMA

and you can also watch the start of German color television here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Ci9MjybjA

In both cases, the broadcasts were displayed on the first German color tv sets from 1967.

- Eckhard

If it doesn't have tubes in it, I wouldn't consider it early. Hybrid sets are a grey area.

I still have trouble understanding why Germany, Australia, UK, et al were so late to the color parade...It wasn't like it was a top secret or anything...I don't buy the story about there not being enuff TVs either, except MAYBE in Australia...

Folks, the reason colour was delayed in OZ was that the government didn't want to spend money to update its own broadcasting network and the development of improved colour systems in the form of SECAM and PAL meant that someone had to decide on standards. We had colour test from the late 50s.

When colour did arrive the take up rate was phenomenal. Within 12 months of the introduction of colour 65% plus of homes had colour television.

This was the fastest colour take up anywhere and far greater than expected.

I suspect because the the difference between colour and black and white was so great and out television stations were broadcasting 100% in colour and of course by 1975 all the bugs had been ironed out in the sets themselves. Almost no sets released in Oz had tubes ...a few hybrids but most sets were 100% transistor or IC based.

This brings a question regarding the U.S. market: what was the first year
in which sales of color sets exceeded sales of B&W sets? I don't have any
idea, does anybody know?

I think what people think as early color TV will vary. Having been born in 1978,I tend to think anything made before 1970 as being a classic, but a lot of people will disagree with that.

A lot of homes didn't have color TV until the 70's and even the 80's. I grew up during the 80's and remember going to peoples houses that still had b&w sets.

My parents didn't have a color set until they got married in 1971. My Mom says she couldn't believe her eyes when she saw color TV.

I was recently watching a 1969 episode of Love American Style and there was a segment where a guy talks about inviting a girl up to his apartment to see color TV and that she had never seen it before. He was lying to get her up to his place and only had a B&W set from the early 50's. Even then Color TV was a novelty.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder of what designates a Early color set. I think most peoples ideas come from their life experiences and what was happening in technology while they were growing up.

I have a 1969 Sylvania Hybrid and I think of it as a classic, but most would not.

re Sandy's comment about why Oz and others were late to the color party ... one little known factoid about OZ colour is that under the terms of the licencing to use the PAL system (there were patents owned by Telefunken) only sets made in Australia or Europe were to be allowed for the first few years.

BUT by a fluke GE had cross patent agreements with Telefunken and GE in turn allowed the big Japanese and Korean players into the market. The effect was cheaper sets and more competition.

To be fair the OZ and Euro sets were in most instances better than their cheap Asian competitors (the exception being Sony). But the Asian companies tended to service the 14" - 20" market whilst the big European and Australian companies (yes we made sets here) tended to be 22" plus.

In fact for several years Sony's only set here was an 18" model.

I think what people think as early color TV will vary. Having been born in 1978,I tend to think anything made before 1970 as being a classic, but a lot of people will disagree with that.

A lot of homes didn't have color TV until the 70's and even the 80's. I grew up during the 80's and remember going to peoples houses that still had b&w sets.

My parents didn't have a color set until they got married in 1971. My Mom says she couldn't believe her eyes when she saw color TV.

I was recently watching a 1969 episode of Love American Style and there was a segment where a guy talks about inviting a girl up to his apartment to see color TV and that she had never seen it before. He was lying to get her up to his place and only had a B&W set from the early 50's. Even then Color TV was a novelty.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder of what designates a Early color set. I think most peoples ideas come from their life experiences and what was happening in technology while they were growing up.

I have a 1969 Sylvania Hybrid and I think of it as a classic, but most would not.

As for me, I was born in '76 and I consider any radio, TV, or stereo with tubes (including tube / transistor hybrids) to be a classic. I also consider the early solid state sets to be classics. I'm starting to place some of the better built TV's from the late '70's to early '80's in the "classic" category. I currently have an '80 RCA XL-100 with rotary tuner in my living room and it plays every day without problems.

It's amazing how far TV's have come just in my lifetime. In my area, if one had a remote control cable ready TV in the '80's, that was a big deal. Heck, I was very excited when my Dad bought our first VCR in the mid '80's. I was probably just as excited over that VCR as kids were in the '50's and '60's when they saw color for the first time. I too remember B&W sets being a common sight in homes up until the late '80's or early '90's. Really, the "fancy" TV's didn't become common here until the prices of new TV's started coming down to the "give away" level. I've known several older people that didn't want any part of a color TV. My 10th grade English teacher had a little Korean built 12" Sears B&W in the mid '90's and she didn't want anything else.

It won't take long looking at the various TV forums on this site to determine that this is a very diverse hobby. This forum is geared towards pre mid-60's color sets and late roundies (as has been mentioned), the B&W forum is geared towards early B&W, and the Rectangular tube and SS forum will reveal collecting interest from the early rectangular sets of the '60's up to the present. Some collectors, like me, are interested in all aspects of this hobby. Others may only focus on a certain era.

BTW, I would consider your hybrid Sylvania a classic. I don't think I've ever had my hands on a tube-type Sylvania. The oldest ones I remember finding were some mid '70's hospital sets.

As for me, I was born in '76 and I consider any radio, TV, or stereo with tubes (including tube / transistor hybrids) to be a classic. I also consider the early solid state sets to be classics. I'm starting to place some of the better built TV's from the late '70's to early '80's in the "classic" category. I currently have an '80 RCA XL-100 with rotary tuner in my living room and it plays every day without problems.

It's amazing how far TV's have come just in my lifetime. In my area, if one had a remote control cable ready TV in the '80's, that was a big deal. Heck, I was very excited when my Dad bought our first VCR in the mid '80's. I was probably just as excited over that VCR as kids were in the '50's and '60's when they saw color for the first time. I too remember B&W sets being a common sight in homes up until the late '80's or early '90's. Really, the "fancy" TV's didn't become common here until the prices of new TV's started coming down to the "give away" level. I've known several older people that didn't want any part of a color TV. My 10th grade English teacher had a little Korean built 12" Sears B&W in the mid '90's and she didn't want anything else.

It won't take long looking at the various TV forums on this site to determine that this is a very diverse hobby. This forum is geared towards pre mid-60's color sets and late roundies (as has been mentioned), the B&W forum is geared towards early B&W, and the Rectangular tube and SS forum will reveal collecting interest from the early rectangular sets of the '60's up to the present. Some collectors, like me, are interested in all aspects of this hobby. Others may only focus on a certain era.

BTW, I would consider your hybrid Sylvania a classic. I don't think I've ever had my hands on a tube-type Sylvania. The oldest ones I remember finding were some mid '70's hospital sets.

You make a good points. We had a RCA color console in the livingroom while growing up and it was a great set and I had a 76 RCA Color Portable in my bedroom growing up that someone gave me one year for Christmas. That set never gave me a bit of problem. Technology has come a long way in our lifetime (You only being 2 years older than me). I remember our first VCR too. It was a Philco and cost around $400. It also had a wired remote. We also got a Satellite Dish early (the BIG one). We thought we were high tech back then.

Hi,

In Europe, color TV was delayed due to expenses of converting studio equipment and the costs of TV sets. In PAL countries, Monochrome and Colour TV weren't compatible like NTSC is. So these countries had to run separate Colour and Monochrome transmissions. Norway got Colour TV in 1967.

Hi folks,

I still have trouble understanding why Germany, Australia, UK, et al were so late to the color parade...It wasn't like it was a top secret or anything...I don't buy the story about there not being enuff TVs either, except MAYBE in Australia...

In Germany, postwar public television starts at the end of the year 1952. But most of the people couldn't buy a tv set, only very wealthy ones. The break-though of black and white television was in the mid-1960s.

Another reason was the colour system itself, the Europeans wanted a colour system without hue or tint control.

In Europe, color TV was delayed due to expenses of converting studio equipment and the costs of TV sets. In PAL countries, Monochrome and Colour TV weren't compatible like NTSC is. So these countries had to run separate Colour and Monochrome transmissions.

PAL colour television was as compatible like NTSC. The only country which had separate colour and monochrome transmissins was UK due to different tv standards (colour 625-lines versus b/w 405-lines standard). But this was not due to PAL but due to the fact that a 405-line colour standard was not established.

- Eckhard

Yes, age of the collector certianly is the main factor as to what is considered "vintage". I was born in '83. Its hard to say, I somewhat "grew up" with the types of sets I collect, although both neighbors had working space command 400 b/w sets in their basements that I remember very well. Grandfather had a 4 tube hybrid in the back room in his old home in chicago also had a portacolor in his RV. My Uncle Rick had the exact same 4 tube hybrid in his apartment. These sets were still used from time to time and this was back in the early 90's. So when I saw those, it was something new for me and I appriciated them as they were never seen anywhere else (like at home or friends etc). Late 60's-70's sets were always at the resale shop though at this time. So in a way, I did kind of "grow up" with them but in a totally different way than someone say 20-30 years older than I am. They were what was "left over" and not in daily common use. That being said, those sets that I liked as a kid fascinated me and Ive been interested in collecting and repair them ever since. Thus, a TV 15 years older than me from 1968, while not really "early color TV" is something of special value as they were from I time I wasnt part of and have appriciation for them. This needs to be considered before someone decides to insult someone as to what they like to collect as Ive had insulting comments as to the type of sets I collect thrown at me in the past from fellow "collectors".

Today we laugh at the "black plastic box" CRT sets. im sure there are kids out there right now an in 20 years when they are my age, they will be collecting these same sets as they think they are cool as its something new for them. And here I am, I was part of the "black plastic box" TV generation. Ive been there and done that and its nothing new, so I dont care to collect them. Same goes for the 55-60 year old guy today who was 20 years old in 1968 who could care less about the new sets of those days. You were there and you were part of it, so its nothing new for you. Thats just the way I see though. One persons opinion though.........

Doug,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I am a 60's fanatic. I love that decade and collect lots of stuff from it. People who grew up with that stuff could care less. I had one Guy say " You call that old" ?

I furnished my home & office with traditional furniture which is the style I like, but I wanted it to be from "the 1960's"....Antiquers will look down at my stuff and brag to me about their 1903 Chippendale sofa.....and I am thrilled to have a Vintage French Provincial sofa from 1963 sitting in my office.

Like you said,since I wasn't a part of the 60's, I get a thrill out of digging this stuff up. Even though some people think I'm nuts for wanting "that crap"

A lot of people never ask me about my old TV set. They probably assume I dug it out of the trash or was a Goodwill find.

In a way, I'm glad some people consider our collections as "crap." That means more toys are available, usually cheap!

Yes, I've heard my share of insults from collectors and non-collectors. I've found that some old radio collectors will turn their nose up at anything newer than the '20's. I really like diversity as long as it's kept "friendly". That way, I can pass '20's stuff on to someone that collects that era and they can pass their newer stuff on to me.

For me ... my recollection of colour arriving drives my interest. I saw colour television for the first time in 1966 at the age of 11 ...it was so amazing.

I purchased my first set in time for the test broadcasts in 1974. A Philips 22" K9 series set. All IC, rectangular tube ... so way out of "early" by this forum's standards.

But as I said at the beginning of this thread... time and technology are moving fast and soon there will be no CRT sets left to buy.

So soon "early" will mean CRT and analogue!!

And let's not get started on Beta and VHS etc!

This brings a question regarding the U.S. market: what was the first year
in which sales of color sets exceeded sales of B&W sets? I don't have any
idea, does anybody know?

Darn, I used to know-it was somewhere in the 68-72 era, and I want to say the earlier. It's possible, though, that the figures I saw were based on total value of the sets sold and not production numbers. I had started a timeline based on the news reports in old trade magazines, but never took the time to get it very far.

Darn, I used to know-it was somewhere in the 68-72 era, and I want to say the earlier. It's possible, though, that the figures I saw were based on total value of the sets sold and not production numbers. I had started a timeline based on the news reports in old trade magazines, but never took the time to get it very far.

Looks like 1972. This is from Tom Genova's site:

http://www.tvhistory.tv/TV_Sales_70-77.JPG

Darryl

Looks like 1972. This is from Tom Genova's site:

http://www.tvhistory.tv/TV_Sales_70-77.JPG

Darryl


Thank you for the info, that looks interesting. That table gives a sharp
peak for color TV sales in 1973, could that be related to the oil crisis?

The definition for the Audiokarma forums seems pretty easy to define, based on the different sections. One forum is for "rectangular and solid-state", the other one is not. That tells me that any round-CRT color TV is an "early" set, any rectangular-CRT one is not, even though many of those may be considered classic designs and/or construction.

I may have posted (or seen) this somewhere here before

This brings a question regarding the U.S. market: what was the first year
in which sales of color sets exceeded sales of B&W sets? I don't have any
idea, does anybody know?

I think it was 1972 or thereabouts. Although we had color as early as 1954, it did take a while. Usually having a color set from the 1950s into the 1960s meant that you were pretty well off. I know my aunt, she had an old RCA roundie from the early 1960's, maybe a CTC-14 or 16, I remember it said "Vista-Color" on it.

I think what people think as early color TV will vary. Having been born in 1978,I tend to think anything made before 1970 as being a classic, but a lot of people will disagree with that.

A lot of homes didn't have color TV until the 70's and even the 80's. I grew up during the 80's and remember going to peoples houses that still had b&w sets.

My parents didn't have a color set until they got married in 1971. My Mom says she couldn't believe her eyes when she saw color TV.

I was recently watching a 1969 episode of Love American Style and there was a segment where a guy talks about inviting a girl up to his apartment to see color TV and that she had never seen it before. He was lying to get her up to his place and only had a B&W set from the early 50's. Even then Color TV was a novelty.

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder of what designates a Early color set. I think most peoples ideas come from their life experiences and what was happening in technology while they were growing up.

I have a 1969 Sylvania Hybrid and I think of it as a classic, but most would not.

I was born in 1966 and remember my aunt's "roundie" from the early to mid 1960's, usually having color meant that you were well off financially. I remember when we got our first color set in 1971, I still have it, a Zenith Chromacolor. Before that was a 1959 Philco B&W set with no UHF tuner. Still we had air conditioning since 1964 so we had a leg up on my aunt. :) I had a grade school chum, from that time until I graduated high school in 1985, they always had a vintage 1967 B&W console.

Yes, age of the collector certianly is the main factor as to what is considered "vintage". I was born in '83. Its hard to say, I somewhat "grew up" with the types of sets I collect, although both neighbors had working space command 400 b/w sets in their basements that I remember very well. Grandfather had a 4 tube hybrid in the back room in his old home in chicago also had a portacolor in his RV. My Uncle Rick had the exact same 4 tube hybrid in his apartment. These sets were still used from time to time and this was back in the early 90's. So when I saw those, it was something new for me and I appriciated them as they were never seen anywhere else (like at home or friends etc). Late 60's-70's sets were always at the resale shop though at this time. So in a way, I did kind of "grow up" with them but in a totally different way than someone say 20-30 years older than I am. They were what was "left over" and not in daily common use. That being said, those sets that I liked as a kid fascinated me and Ive been interested in collecting and repair them ever since. Thus, a TV 15 years older than me from 1968, while not really "early color TV" is something of special value as they were from I time I wasnt part of and have appriciation for them. This needs to be considered before someone decides to insult someone as to what they like to collect as Ive had insulting comments as to the type of sets I collect thrown at me in the past from fellow "collectors".

Today we laugh at the "black plastic box" CRT sets. im sure there are kids out there right now an in 20 years when they are my age, they will be collecting these same sets as they think they are cool as its something new for them. And here I am, I was part of the "black plastic box" TV generation. Ive been there and done that and its nothing new, so I dont care to collect them. Same goes for the 55-60 year old guy today who was 20 years old in 1968 who could care less about the new sets of those days. You were there and you were part of it, so its nothing new for you. Thats just the way I see though. One persons opinion though.........

I couldn't have summed it up better myself... When I became interested in TVs (noticing them and being fascintated), most people of middle income still had a roundie in the livingroom, and maybe, just maybe, the old B&W set in the bedroom. As I started fooling around with them, I mostly was able to get hold of 50s B&W consoles and then later, a roundie color set (A Packard-Bell console; got it in 1978.)

As far as what makes a color set vintage or collectible: Simple. If a collector wants it, it's collectible. Doesn't have to be old, or weird. Just of interest for any reason. What's popularly considered a collectible color set? I'd say any color TV pre-1960 is a true collectible. Roundies from the 60s are a good point of entry for newer collectors, and I am now interested in them! I guess that this may be out of guilt, having thrown hundreds of them out in years past :thumbsdn:

Charles

---

Hi,

Early Color Television! Anything from early 1950's color prototypes to 1965 vintage or any roundie screen set. Tubes or Hybrids of tubes and transistors. Middle period color TV! Anything from 1965 rectangular tube sets to 1980's vintage. Tubes, Hybrids, or Transistors

I think the reason early color holds so much interest was some of the early designs by various companies IE: Philco apple tube, Motorola 19" crt, CBS colombia and so-on. By the time color reached the 60's for the most part color sets were getting better and better and although there were still roundies, the exploritory era was over. Crt's were becoming brighter and brighter and then the romance started to fade and color became commonplace just like any other technology.