First off I'd like to say hello to everyone here. This is my first post.

I got this set from my sis-in-law a year ago. She got it back in '77. Over the past year I have been using it with my RCA VDT-350 VHS and RCA SJT-200 CED player. For most of that time the set ran pretty will with the occasional drop in brightness and it could have used a touch up on the convergence. That is, until the other day. Out of the blue while watching The Love Boat, the screen went blank and the circuit breaker blew. I reset the breaker and the channel number lit up for about 5 seconds and the breaker tripped again.

Now I hope you'll hang in with me here as all I currently know about fixing TVs I've learned over the past two days from the unit's service manual and searcing the web.

Upon inspection I noticed that the video ouput board on the neck of the crt was smoking from the center as the breaker tripped. I removed the board and opened the white ring that contains the spart gap and it was pretty black and had a small opening in it from arching. From what I've been able to figure out, that gap has something to do with the HV for focus? I've inspected the tripler and find nothing out of the ordinary, but it's hard to know since the breaker only gives me about 5 seconds before tripping. During that time I hear nothing. I only see and smell smoke from the spark gap.

Any help from this point forward would be greatly appreciated. How can I go about finding the bad component? So far I've come up with either a bad tripler or CRT (both of which I can purchase replacments for from Sears). The CRT is 19VGZP22 and $128. The tripler is 977-43 and $60.99. I don't know if these prices are high, but they are Zenith parts.

If you need any other information to help, please let me know and I'll do my best to get it to you.

Thank you!

Robert

I seem to remember the Tripler shorting and putting the full 25 KV on the focus lead; thus, burning up the spark gap. You will probably need a new tripler as well as a new CRT socket. One thing you might try is unsoldering the input lead from the tripler. This is the lead coming from the flyback transformer to the tripler. You will have to cut away the RTV where the lead solders on the tripler and then unsolder the lead from the tripler. Use extreme caution when doing this. Now, make sure the lead is away from the chassis and turn the set on. You should now have sound and the breaker should not trip. If it trips, you have problems elsewhere in the set. Power up the set as little as possible in it's current state because I've also seen shorted triplers burn up the flyback in the CC II's.

I wouldn't jump off into paying those prices for those parts without checking around first. Someone on here may have what you need for a better price. In fact, I'm shocked that Sears would have any parts for such an old set.

It would be nice if you had access to a CRT tester just to make sure the tube was OK before buying the other parts.

I should be able to handle desoldering the input lead on the tripler. For safety sake, will grounding the anode on the crt to DAG (did I get that right) remove all the HV down to the wire I'm about to mess with? If not, how would I go about doing so?

The lowest price I found for the tripler was $45 and was only able to find the CRT through Sears. Hmmm..... I inspected the CRT socket and the burn from the arcing didn't melt all the way through the cover. Is it a good idea to replace it anyway? If so, I'll start looking for one.

As for the CRT tester. I see a number of them on ebay, but I have no idea which model/make would work with my tube. That and most of them are untested.

Thanks for your help!

That tripler crosses to a ECG559 or NTE559. An NTE distributer should have it.

Yes, you can discharge the CRT by shorting the anode connection to the dag ground. You might want to attach a wire to an insulated screwdriver and connect the other end of the wire to dag ground. Holding the screwdriver by the handle, slip the end under the anode cup. You may hear a loud POP as the CRT discharges. Repeat this procedure several times to make sure all the charge is gone.

If you get a CRT tester, try to get a B&K model 467 or later model number. The older ones usually do not have the socket to test the inline tube like what is in your set and their rejuvenate function is not that great. A Sencore CR70 is another good choice. Like you said, the ones on epay are usually untested and you could easily wind up spending big $ on a piece of junk. Someone on this forum may have something they would sell you that would stand a much better chance of working than that crap on epay.

Maybe someone here on AK with a CRT tester is close to you (I'm in MS) and could check your tube. Another option is to find an older TV shop that could check your tube. Most of the newer shops would laugh in your face and tell you to s**tcan it if you brought that set to them. But, I'm here to tell you that your Zenith is far better than most any TV made today!

Here is a link to a tripler for $31.80

http://www.web-tronics.com/nte525tonte815.html

BTW, if you buy a B&K CRT tester, make sure is has adapter CR-20 with it. That is the socket to test your tube. I think B&K discontinued these older adapters in favor of a "universal" adapter that is nothing more than clip leads that are designed to clip on the pins of the CRT.

I checked ebay and the testers are lower model numbers than the one you gave. I'll keep check back.

I live in Hollywood, CA and there aren't many repair shops left. The couple I found and contacted wanted upwards of 75 diag fee.

I'm gonna tackle the disconnecting of the tripler in a bit (must finish my taxes first). I'll let you know if the set comes to life without the CB tripping. If it does, does this indicate the tripler only, or could the problem still be in the tube or the horizontal ouput board?

Thanks!

Okay, I removed the input wire to the trippler, secured it and tested the set. It worked without tripping the breaker and I had sound. So I guess the issue is in either the CRT or HV somewhere. Funny thing is that when I connected the wire and put the screwdriver under the cup, I hit the connection under the cup but there was no signs of any discarge. Is there usually a discharge?

Should I order a replacement tripler, or should I diag a little more first?

Thanks!

If it comes to life, it means the tripler is likely bad. I suspect you'll also need to replace the CRT socket since the spark gap is badly burned. Don't let that lead from the flyback come near the chassis. There is around 9 KV on this lead and it can arc to the chassis if it's too close. There is really no way of telling if the tube is bad without changing those other parts if you don't have a CRT tester. The only way I could see the tube being bad in this case would be if the tripler shorted and threw 25 KV onto the focus electrode inside the tube. The focus voltage is somewhere in the 8 KV area and the 2nd anode voltage is around 25 KV. Maybe the spark gap prevented the excess voltage from ruining the tube.

Is there a way to test the tripler? I tried to measure resistance in it, but got nothing on any of the leads. Figured there should be something to measure in the unit.

I'm going to order a replacement tripler today.

Thanks

I've never found a way to test a tripler other than unsoldering the input like I mentioned. Of course, there are the ones that the case is cracked or buldged and those would be bad.

I ordered the tripler and now need to wait for it to be delivered. I should get it by Friday, so I'll put the set aside and wait.

Thanks for all your help. I'll post back when I get the tripler.

...

I'm going to install the new tripler and if that doesn't fix the problem, I'll assume the tube is bad and replace the set. I wanted to make an effort to save the set as it's been with my sis-in-law for over 30 years and she's been in my family for over 22 years. This set's been a good friend.

I think I'll make the rounds at the thrift stores and see if I can find a nice 25" console if this CRT is bad. I'll put this unit away until I find a replacement CRT.

Thanks!

If you can't find a new CRT socket, clean that spark gap the best you can. Rubbing alcohol usually works. Just make sure it's completely dry before powering up the set.

I'm curious to know if your set is a remote set, a one knob tuner, or the standard two knobs for VHF and UHF?

If you look for a '70's console; a Zenith Chromacolor or Chromacolor II would be a good choice. They use a delta gun tube and they almost never go bad. The triplers do fail; but, I've never seen one in the delta tube sets send the second anode voltage through the focus lead. They either arc and burn or they short, killing the HV and tripping the CB. The '70's RCA consoles are decent sets if the CRT is still good. I've seen way more bad RCA tubes than Zenith.

It's a single knob non-remote. For UHF you only have 5 available (right after channel 13). If you want another you have to retune a previous one. That actually reminds me to ask if anyone knows where I can get a knob. The original broke at the stem. It's about 1 1/4" across and chrome.

My digital camera is due back tomorrow. I'll post a pic of the set then.

I am hoping for another CC II in a cosole. I can then retire the cart as it's about to fall apart. I've fixed it a number of times, but it has wood for the shelves and it's pretty much bowed from the weight. With the console I can place the VCR and CED player on top.

So, you're saying that the plastic shaft that the silver knob slides on to broke off? That was very common with those channel selectors. I may have a knob in my junk; but, you would have to fabricate some sort of shaft.

The tuner shaft is okay. It's the hollow shaft on the knob that broke (or so I was told). The knob was then lost.

I hope to post some pics of the set today.

Sounds like a nice set...would like to see it also. As mentioned before, these late 70s Zeniths really were HQ sets and deserve repair

Well pics will have to wait 'til Friday when I have my own camera back. Darn Fuji camera my mom has uses the mini usb cable, but with one slight modification to the end the camera uses. I can't find the cable it came with and all the usb cables I have won't fit! Then to top it off, the camera uses and xD memory card and my reader doesn't support it! They should be shot for messing with a standard.

Okay, I just replaced the tipler and that fixed the blowing of the breaker. Now on to the next problem....

I turn the set on after the new tripler install and I get sound right away, but instead of the image (snow since there's no input signal) I get a loud POP sound. When this happened I shut it down and looked for smoke or the smell of something burning. There was none. I then turned off all lights and tried it again. This time I watched the neck of the tube. I noticed that there was a blue glow between the yoke and rings. As it got brighter it would eventually arc to the end of the tube. When it arced, the blue glow would go back to a dim glow and build up again til it arced. The only thing you could see on the front of the tube was a flash each time it arced.

Okay, any suggestions? Is the tube toast? Did I miss or mess up something?

Thanks!

When the old tripler went, it probably took something with it.

I don't know if the tube is shot, but you should probably keep it unplugged until someone comes along with a more precise answer.

I do remember a friend of mine having that problem. He changed the CRT socket module, IIRC, to solve the problem.

By "CRT socket module" do you mean the video output board? The one that the socket is soldered to and sitting on the neck of the CRT? If so, how easy/hard are these to locate?

Thanks

Yep, thats the crt module. Post the board number (9-xxx) and maybe someone has one as a spare... I have a few I'll let you know.

Hope this is the correct number. It's located on the bottom in big letters, so it has to be it.

9-121-01C

...

Sorry, I don;t have that module. Most of the Zeniths I've scrapped were 80s sets... good luck in fixing yours

So should I solder a wire for each pin on the CRT to a single wire, connect each wire to a pin on the CRT and the single end to a ground point and then fire up the set to see if the CRT still arcs?

How about just trying to replace the CRT socket instead of the entire board? Is it something I could locate by part number? I think the spark gap is toast as I checked resistance from the HV focus pin to the ground pin that connects to the other end of the spark gap and the DMM reacted and showed 00. Now isn't there supposed to be no path because of the gap and since the meter reacted, there must be some kind of connection when there shouldn't be?

Thanks!

You should be able to find that board-there seem to be a lot of Zenith modules floating around. Hopefully some others who have them will chime in. Unfortunately (well, fortunately for me!) I haven't run into this particular problem so can't offer much advice. One thing that comes to mind, and maybe this set is too new for this to be an issue, but CCII's used a 4-leg capacitor in the HV regulation circuit. The first version, which was white in color, was notorious for failures which caused arcing at the yoke/crt neck. The 4-leg cap should be an orange drop, either from the factory or because somebody replaced it under a recall campaign. Worth checking if you haven't already.

There's a big orange cap at the bottom of the HV board. I remember seeing it, but will have to take a look to see if it has more than two legs on it.

Finally got the pics of my set off that darn Fuji camera. I'm also attaching one of my LCD TV. It's bigger and the image is sharper in HD, but it sure can't give me the black levels of this old CC II.

000

I found a Sams Photofact on a 19KC52 chassis that uses the same 9-121-01D video output / CRT socket module that your set uses. The CRT socket itself is Zenith part number 78-2227. Your type set with the inline CRT is not nearly as common as the delta gun CRT sets. The System 3 chassis came along right around the time your set was made; but, there were some "late" CCII sets made with the inline System 3 style CRT.

If the spark gap reads anything; it's bad.

As far as those 4-lead safety caps go; the bad ones were used on late "E" line (the first fold down chassis) and "F" line sets. The orange ones are OK. If you ever see a white one, don't do another thing until you replace it with the newer, orange drop version. Those white caps would blow open without warning and cause the HV to rise to the point that it would blow the neck off the CRT.

Wasn't gonna solder the wires to the CRT. What I meant was to solder one wire for each of the connections on the CRT to a single wire. Then I would end up with one wire branching out to a number of wires. I would then just tape one wire end to each of the connections on the CRT and the single end to ground. No soldering on the CRT. :no:

Well if anyone has access to a CRT socket, let me know. I'm willing to pay a fair price for it and postage. My brother's skills at soldering are much better than mine and he can replace the socket in no time. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna have to say good-bye to this long time friend and start searching for a replacement.

I'll be on the lookout for a socket or the whole module for you.

Cool. Could every keep an eye out for a knob as well? :D It's about 1 1/4" and sticks out of the hole on the door as seen in the pics.

Thanks!

I found a new 9-121-01D on ebay for $15 + shipping. I never done business with the seller; but, thought you'd like to know about it. The item number is: 380017472872

The socket on the 01D from ebay is different in that the focus and ground wires are part of the socket and not plug-in like on my 01C. Doubt that makes a difference, but I can't tell if it will fit on my board as the shape of it is also a bit different. I wonder if the 01D board will work on my CRT so I could use it as a direct replacement. Hmmm....

...

Am I correct in assuming that the letter at the end of the video output module part number notes a revision? For example my board is 9-121-01C. When I search for a replacment board I find a 9-121-01, 9-121-01D, 9-121-01R.... All of these are Zenith video output boards. Only the D unit was I able to see a picture of it and the socket shape is different than mine (I'm sure the pins and fit for the CRT neck are the same).

If these are revisions, is there any way for me to find out if any of them will work in place of my 01C?

Thanks!

If someone has a Zenith module substitution book, it should tell you what boards will work. I don't have such a guide; but, someone on here should have.

...

partstore.com has both the 01 and 01R module. The 01 is $32 and the 01R is $49. The 01R description line is: MODULE UN ASSY. I wonder if the UN means it's universal.

Here's the latest....

I spent a few hours on the set yesterday (with my bro's help). We coiled a wire around the neck pins (not touching any pin) and put the other end to ground. Turning on the set produced no arcing to the wire, so I'm hoping the CRT is not at fault.

My brother used a DMM and checked just about everything on the board, with the exception of those two thin things standing up (the larger one has warnings about being hot). I have no idea what the are and my schematics for the board don't show them. They have about 20 solder points though. Anyway, I was always focusing on the 12kv spark gap as it was pretty black from arcing and didn't even realize there was a smaller spark gap next to it and below it for the 7kv. His testing seems to show there might be an issue in that gap.

Well thanks to radiotvnut for locating a 01D revision board on ebay, I now have one on the way. The guy on ebay took an offer of $10 for it. It should be here no later than Friday.

Well, that's about all I have for now. Hopefully we're getting there (thanks to everyone here).

Those rectangular stand up things are resistor packs. There are many resistors in there and about the only way you can check them is to have a schematic of the part, which they don't often provide.

Anyway, I'm glad you've got a board on the way and I hope it fixes your set.

Just thought I'd give an update. So far the replacement board I purchased hasn't arrived. It should have shipped on 4/21, but the guy said he would send it on 4/24. According to the tracking info, he must have sent it on 4/26. It should have been sent priority, but who knows. Hopefully it will arrive today.

On another issue, my vcr has developed an playback audio problem. Lately the audio will drop to a very low and staticy (is that even a word). Using the tuner yields perfect sound, so I figured I'd check out the playback head. The head is mounted on a small circuit board with a resistor across the terminals. I got a replacement resistor and while playing a tape, I touch its leads to the existing resistor. When I did this, the sound came back. When I took it away, the sounds was still there. I stopped playback and pressed play again only find the sound problem back. This time I was poking at the two wires soldered to the head to see if there was a short in them. During playback, if I touched the leads at the solder point, the sound would crackle and get louder. When I took my finger away, the sound would go back to static. For some odd reason, I decided to short the leads momentarily with a wire and what do you know. The sound came back. Now, each time the sound goes to static, I short the leads on the head and it comes back.

I checked the head and it checks out okay, so I'm thinking it's cap on the audio board. When I short the leads, I short the bad cap. Does this sound like I'm on the right track? I have the Sams Photofact for it, so I should be able to test the board. At least the section that the PB is connected to as the audio for the tuner is fine.

Thanks!

I sure hope you get that part. Often, I've had sellers send items via "ultra snail mail" with no insurance even though I paid for priority with insurance. They pull this crap so they can make money (rip people off) on shipping. Shipping prices / tactics have gotten so bad that I'm having to cut back on my ebay purchases.

I really don't know what to tell you on the VCR. The best test for that resistor would be to unsolder it and check it with an ohmmeter. Bridging another resistor across the old one will result in lower resistance than the original, unless the original is open.

I tried the removed the resistor and it was good, so it's back in. The problem seems to be on the audio board itself. My brother says that when I short the leads, it sounds like I'm shorting a bad cap as well. That's why the sounds comes back. Just thought I'd check here to see if anyone has experienced this problem before.

I sure hope it wasn't sent any other way than priority. The shipping was high to begin with.

Radiotvnut -

I've been checking ebay for a crt tester. You mentioned earlier about a Sencore CR70 and on ebay there's a Sencore CR168 Big Mack with a total of 16 sockets (can't tell if one will fit my tube). Is it safe to assume that the higher CR number means it's newer than the one you mentioned? Also, do you know what socket my tube would need for that model?

Thanks!

P.S. Still no replacement board yet! I bet the guy didn't mail it the day he printed the shipping label.

Radiotvnut -

I've been checking ebay for a crt tester. You mentioned earlier about a Sencore CR70 and on ebay there's a Sencore CR168 Big Mack with a total of 16 sockets (can't tell if one will fit my tube). Is it safe to assume that the higher CR number means it's newer than the one you mentioned? Also, do you know what socket my tube would need for that model?

Thanks!

P.S. Still no replacement board yet! I bet the guy didn't mail it the day he printed the shipping label.

I can't tell if there's a socket with that tester for your tube. I do know that the CR168 is older. The CR70 is next to the newest Sencore model. The CR7000 is the latest Sencore model. I don't know the socket number for the sencore. The B&K socket is "CR20" for B&K models 467, 470, 480, and 490. If you find a B&K tester, ask the seller if it comes with the CR20 socket. I've never used the Sencore models. All I know is what I've read about them. I know a guy who has a B&K 470; but, he thinks he should get about $300 for it. I can't see it happening, though. If I can talk him into selling it for a more reasonable price, I'll let you know.

Concerning that board, I hope you're not dealing with a deadbeat seller. I'd contact him and verify that the part had been shipped.

I found two B&K 470's on epay. One has the CR20 adapter and I can't tell about the other one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/B-K-470-Picture-Tube-tester-rejuvenator_W0QQitemZ290226280715QQihZ019QQcategor yZ1504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/B-K-470-CRT-TESTER-REJUVENATOR-FAST-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ110249586171QQihZ001QQcategoryZ7 3173QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'll check out the two you found on ebay. My brother works on sets (mostly 40s and 50s). I might be able to get him to chip in and he can keep it when I'm done.

I have tried for the past 5 days to contact the seller, but he won't respond. I've requested the seller's information and am going to call him. USPS only shows the electronic label being created on 4/25, but not of receiving the actual package. So I'm going to relax before I call.

Thanks for the info.

Well I won a B&K CR470 with the CR20 socket on ebay today. Got it for 10.60. Let's hope it works!

Well I won a B&K CR470 with the CR20 socket on ebay today. Got it for 10.60. Let's hope it works!

Good for you. Hopefully your CRT is in good shape still...

I hope it works for you and I hope this seller is quicker than the other guy at taking care of business.

That socket number 3 is a good one to have on hand as well. It test the rectangular delta gun tubes from the '60's and '70's. If you can get CR23 and CR31, (B&K probably still carries these) you can check the newer inline gun tubes from the '80's - present day.

It won't be a major problem if your tester does not have a manual and/or a setup chart. I can tell you how to operate it if need be.

I don't think you did wrong at the price you got it for unless it's totally burned up. Those models didn't give that much trouble.

This unit didn't have many sockets, but for $25 shipped, it's worth the risk.

I'm searching the net for copies of the manual and setup chart, but not having much luck. I might need to ask for assistance to make sure I'm doing things correctly.

If I can get this guy to drop it in the mail today, I can have it by wed or thu (priority from IA). If the output board arrives, I'm going to hang onto it until I can test the CRT. So sense risking the board if the tube is toast.

Okay, got the CRT tester today and I downloaded the general instructions for it from B&K. The CRT tested fine and installing the new video output board brought the set back to life.

I have the service manual (PDF) for the set, but it sure doesn't make things easier. It figured out that U8 mentioned in the manual was a connection on the sync. A.C.G. board and that when it's grounded, the show goes away and I can then set the brightness limiter and range controls. I was also able to set the G2 control to produce a dim raster. But that's as far as I was able to go/figure out.

The set produces a decent color picture with just the G2 set. The red, green and blue controls on the board are at their minimum settings. What am I supposed to do with these adjusters? I must need to do something with them or why else would they be there.

My brother says there should be a "setup" switch, jumper or something like that. The manual keeps referring to G2 and color controls...turning down all, then turning one up to get a raster of that color gun in the center of the screen and check for it being uniformed across the screen, blah, blah, blah. When I turn one of the color controls, the snow on the screen starts to take on that color. The manual doesn't say I should ground U8 for this adjustment, so how do I get rid of the snow and get to the raster?

Don't mean to babble so much, but I'm a bit confused at the moment.

Thanks!

...

Earlier I was doing just that, but in the end wound up with the G2 set to a dim raster and the colors at minimum. I was getting a dim grey raster and when I connected a video source, whites were very white and other colors looked correct. So at minimum setting they stay. I do need to readjust the G2 to an even dimmer raster as light raster lines can be seen watching dark areas of an image on the screen. Other than that, I think she's done.

I thank everyone here for their time and assistance. I doubt I'd have ever attempted fixing it without your help!

I do have one other question. When doing the CRT testing, the B&K instructions for testing CUTOFF was a bit confusing. The instructions say to "adjust each G2 control until meter rises ONE DIVISION. Use GUN SELECTOR switch and corresponding G2 control with color tubes." Now I figured out that I need to change guns and adjust the G2 control for each gun, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out what they mean by, "ONE DIVISION." I looked at the meter face and couldn't figure out what would consitute "ONE DIVISION." I just turned each G2 up until the needle moved from 0 to the next marking on the face. That seemed okay as the following tests for cutoff showed good for each gun.

Hmmmm.......

That first marking is the correct position for the cutoff settings.

...

I usually do a final check using the letter box bars on a wide screen TV show as a black level reference. Adjust the G2 so that they are just black when the brightness/black level control is centered and the contrast/picture is at a normal level.

Sounds like a plan. I can use Video Essentials DVD to put up the test for black level and adjust the G2. When that's done, I can use the other tests and calibrate color and tint as well.

Thanks!

Well, thanks to everyone here, she's up and running again! With the help of my brother and a mirror, all adjustements to brightness level, G2 level and color have been done. A quick run of video essentials and all fine tuning was also done.

So in the end, I spent about $60 to get it running again. The only thing I didn't tackle was convergence. I knew if I tried, it would end up worse. It's not really that off and I have to remember that it will never be perfect. The center is converged and so is most of the screen. Just a couple areas are off and I think that trying to fix one area will throw off another. That and once I start watching something, I forget about the areas that are off.

Thanks again to everyone here! I'm still looking for a nice Zenith console, so I'll let you know if / when I find one.

Yeah, unless you know what you're doing, trying to get perfect convergence will drive you insane.

Somewhere I have a big box full of NOS (new old stock) triplers both ECG and Zenith. Does anyone need any? Julian

Julian,

I could use a tripler for a 25GC45 set, the Sams lists a 212-141-02 (ECG 526A) and a 212-145 (ECG 528). It looks like a 212-141-05 I pulled from a 23FC45 a couple years ago. I don't know if they're interchangeable.

If you have any Zenith focus dividers, I could use a spare 63-8970 (ECG HiDiv-4) for my 25CC50. I've replaced it twice before, so they do fail.
I just put a new rebuilt CRT in it last year, and want to keep the set running - it's my living room daily watcher.

PM me if you have either of those. Thanks.
Mike