Hello all! I rescued an RCA Victor Special from the dock of my local TV repair man. I'd love to restore this TV and thought I'd start with the cabinet first and worry about the actual TV a little later. I paid $50 for it and I have no idea if that's a good price or not.

Although I'm working on the cabinet first I would like to hunt down a schematic for it. The back of the TV tells me it is Model 21-8-832, but it is rather faded. I'm not finding any information for this set on the internet using this model number.

The speaker fabric on the bottom of this set is really faded but it looks like it totally made the set. It's got gold flakes in it and it made me wonder if there is reproduction fabric out there I could replace it with. I also wondered about the decals on the inside compartment with the dials. There is a Victor decal and one that says Special, I wondered if these were being reproduced anywhere.

Thanks in advance for any and all help for a completely day one beginner!

Here's the set (It's the same one as my avatar, just bigger).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffjackson/2194470856/

I know nothing about this TV so if anyone even knows the year it was produced, that would be great.

Welcome! I'm new too, I feel like a kid in a candy store here! First, try looking for a chassis number somewhere on the chassis it's self. If you find one, you can enter it in the search box at sams photofact and they most likely will have a schematic for you. And thanks for saving that cool RCA! :banana:
I was looking at the pic you posted, I'm no expert but it may be a '56 or '57

First of all , I would like to welcome the 2 new members above to the AK early B&W forums .
The RCA was a nice score , $ 50.00 isn't a bad price .
I would say it's a 1957 . I might have info on it , schematics ect .
I'll have a look . Do you have any idea when it was last opperating ?
I would avoid plugging it in untill you done the wax\paper capacitors in it .
sounds like it's got a good home , that's great to hear .

Welcome to AK ! Yeah, I'd say mid-50s on yr new playpretty- And DON'T even think about "tryin' 'er out" until you've had it checked out...

Welcome to AK! Also, welcome to the world of television collecting. Your basement will never be the same.

To get started, take the back off the set and look for a chassis number. The model number you have there is the model of the entire television - cabinet and all. You want to find the chassis number - which is the model number of the electronics. Then, go to www.samswebsite.com and type the chassis number into their search box, to figure out which PhotoFact folder has information on your set. Once you know the PhotoFact number, go to your local library (the main branch) to the reference desk, and ask for "Sam's PhotoFact #xxx-x". Most larger libraries have archives of these things. If they have it, they'll get it for you - go photocopy it and you'll have the schematics and all sorts of other information, like test voltage readings and instructions on how to take the set apart. Also, another nice feature of PhotoFacts is that they actually have pictures of the underside of the chassis, the boards, etc - complete with labels for the components.

I would advise against simply plugging the set in to the wall to see if it works, unless you know that it was used recently. The problem is, that if you suddenly apply power after 20 years of sitting in a garage, it puts a lot of stress on components. Granted, you're going to replace most of these parts anyway, but you don't want one to blow and take out a vital part, like the power transformer.

You're going to probably want to build a dim bulb tester. This is a simple device that can be pieced together with some simple parts from the junk box and hardware store - it's basically just light bulb socket wired in series with a power outlet. This allows you to use a light bulb to limit the current flowing to the television. And it can detect shorted components (the bulb shouldn't light brightly and stay bright, if it does, something is shorted). A good reference is www.antiqueradio.org - Phil has some wonderful beginner's articles, and covers the construction and use of a dim bulb tester. There are some caveats of using a dim bulb tester with a television, and I'm sure others can explain it better than I can. But read Phil's site.

Tell us a bit about yourself too. What kind of previous experiance do you have in electronics? Are you familliar with tubes, and tube based gear? Do you know the difference between electrolytic and regular capacitors? What tools do you have? Tubes are a lot different than solid state, and run on higher voltages (especially televisions! Be careful!). If this is your first step into tube gear, I would strongly suggest you start small, just to get the feel of it. Find a cheap plastic table radio/clock radio from the 50's-60's and recap it. It's a simple job, with less than a dozen capacitors to replace. (less than an hour when you get good at it). It'll give you practice working with this sort of gear, and be much easier to manipulate and get working. Another warning - a lot of tube stuff is hot chassis, meaning that the metal chassis is often connected to one leg of the AC mains. Televisions typically have power transformers (but not always) to eliminate this. Cheap radios don't - so just don't go poking around with fingers with the power on, a good habit to get into if you're going to work with tubes. Even cold chassis sets can deliver a nasty shock from the B+ supply.

I hope I haven't scared you off - It'll be a fair amount of work to learn, but it'll be a lot of fun. Trust me. And remember - we're here to help!

-Ian

Try 21-S-632. The middle character is very likely an S, not an 8. I don't see an 832 listed anywhere but I do see a 632.
Also there's a 24-S-532 that looks a lot like your Avatar. The first number(21 or 24) states your screen size (inches, diagonally). Your picture tube will have a number etched on the glass of the neck or sometimes printed on the plastic cap on the neck. It will also start with 21 or 24, matchingly. That should clear up what your first number is.
Hope this helps.

I also see a 21-T-822 that's also close.
Year is probably 1954. I can't see personal photo pages at work (they're blocked) but tonight I can take a closer look at your photos.

Like others have said, this is a hobby that will "hook" you. The reward of hearing your first radio play and later seeing your first TV screen light up is well worth the effort. And saving old sets like this one from the dumpster is an admirable thing to do.

Reading this thread may also help:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103822&highlight=21-s%2A+RCA

Nixer:

Your set is a 21S632 "Special Series" from 1956. It was known as the "Brady 21".

Steve

reproduction fabric out there I could replace it with.
It's not terribly likely that you'll find an exact reproduction, but you could browse through the various reproduction cloths made for old radios and see whether anything looks close. The repro cloth guys only make a cloth when there is sufficient demand, and that includes few or no old TVs, which are not collected in the same numbers as radios.

Anyway, here are a couple of cloth sources:

http://www.grillecloth.com/

http://www.tubesandmore.com/

When I needed a sparkly cloth for my TrueTone boomerang radio, I looked high and low for something similar. I ended up hand-dying some fabric and spraying it with glitter from a craft store.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

Wow, thanks for the great responses!

Steve K, thanks for the identification. All of the sets I've seen up to this point that resembled my rescued set had some sort of knob on the outside of the TV. This set doesn't have any so I wonder if it had a remote. I'd love to track that down as well.

I'm a bit fearful this WILL become addicting, especially if I love the finished product. I can see potential, even in it's withered state. Because this set was sitting in the rain for at least a year most of the finish is gone on it. I'd love to restore it to its original finish if I can find such information. The cabinet itself is very sturdy and the insides don't look too affected by the weather, thankfully.

I have no experience with tube televisions but have fixed computers for several years now. My best friend in the computer business used to be a TV repairman so I've got some wonderful knowledge to learn from him. He thinks I'm crazy for picking this thing up but he's willing to help! I know just enough to NOT turn the thing on and "see what I get".

Phil, thanks for the links! I'm going to take my time with this and try to make it look right so I would love to find some old fabric but may have to make do with making my own, like you suggested. I noticed the sides of the set are veneer so I don't know how matching the old veneer with new veneer will work out, along with finding a matching stain to keep everything uniform. I guess I'm just going to have to dive in.

The sad part about this story is I saw this exact set a year ago, perhaps the day it was left outside. I assumed someone was coming to pick it up. I had no idea it had been pushed outside permanently. I went by the next day and thought it was gone but it had been pushed against a Coke machine where I couldn't see it. Dang!

I'm still reading the responses, some of them three times. I think I now have plenty to get myself started! I'd love to keep everyone posted on the progress.

Your set did not have a remote. If you'd like I could try to scan the RCA brochure that shows your set and post it here.

Steve

I forgot to include the URL to my article that describes making the glittery cloth:

http://antiqueradio.org/true01.htm

The photo doesn't show much sparkle, but trust me, it's there. If you're lucky, maybe you won't have to go to such lengths. There may be a shiny reproduction cloth that looks acceptable, even if not perfect.

If you have to replace some veneer, or do any serious cabinet refinishing, note that these cabinets were originally finished in lacquer, using brown colored lacquer ("toner") for coloring if needed, rather than stain.

Anyway, when you get to that stage, let us know what you're dealing with. There is a lot of online information about cabinet restoration.

Regards,

Phil Nelson

Steve, that would be great! I'd really, really appreciate it. I'll head to the library before the week is over to find the PhotoFact for this set now that I know what kind it is.

Phil, that's an interesting article and very helpful. I gotta say...that Truetone Boomerang looks amazing, great job. Thanks for correcting me on the finish of the cabinet. It's almost certainly going no need a complete refinish.

And dang, I was really hoping this came with a remote! I was looking forward to tracking down one of those space age looking remotes. Oh well. You can't have everything.

Here is the scan from the brochure. Some of the RCAs of that year could be equipped with a wired remote but I doubt if it could be added to the specials.

Steve

Thanks Steve! So this tells me my set was a "budget" set and came in either Mahogany or Limed Oak, very good to know.

For "glittery" grille cloth, try a jukebox restoration parts house. Jukes of the era were usually flashier than radios and TV's of the time, and meant to attract attention...heck, they even provided their own lighting to make sure you noticed it! I got some white grille cloth that has gold sparkly threads throughout, I think it is also available with silver. And I'm pretty sure red cloth with gold or silver is also available (but I can't imagine a TV with bright red grille cloth!) Try:

http://www.victoryglass.com/

http://www.jukeboxusa.com/

--Bob

This is the 1955 Model .
Unfortunatly this is the only info I have for it .

This set used the same chassis , but this was the really budget 21" set , with a black metal cabinet .

With my Sams number in hand I took a trip to the largest library in our area only to find out they threw out all their Photofact books several years ago. So it looks like I'll have to buy my schematics from the website. It would have been nice to find them at the library but I suppose beggars can't be choosers.

I've uploaded some color photos of the set so you can get some idea of what kind of shape the cabinet is in. I noticed part of the top of the TV (the part that isn't the lid) is also veneer, so a good part of this cabinet is veneer. It looks like the stuff is glued down really well so this could be a bear.

It's obvious this is the mahogany finish but you wouldn't be able to tell looking at it from the front only. In fact I'm a bit worried some of the front frame has discolored and dried out past the point sanding would fix. The lid that hides the controls has also buckled a hair, and I noticed it's not one whole piece of wood. It's slats, like a wood floor would be. Getting this set in the light makes it look a little worse for the wear than I thought!

I'm not discouraged too much though. I would like to know how you guys get movies to this set. I noticed on one web page (Eric's Vintage TV's) he uses a wireless video sender. Is that generally how we do it? If so, does anyone have a link of an exact setup they bought? The TV isn't ready for this yet but I did wonder how it was done.

Bob E, thanks for the links! I've been looking over those sites for the past few days.

Tube TV, thanks for the photos!

If you haven't ordered it yet I bet one of us could set you up with the Sams file. I have a bunch of duplicates around that age. Do you have the file number?

You can hook up your dvd player without too much trouble. Usually need an adaptor. You can have a lot of fun showing off old shows on an old tv.

The Sams number is 322-11. I still haven't found the number 21S632 on the TV anywhere, but judging from the description and information you guys have given me it must be a 21S632. Thanks for the help!!!

Does the top lift up on it ? I noticed the channel selector shaft is toward the top. How do you change channels on these sets .

Ebay has those RF modulators , they sell for 10 bucks and you can route the DVD through that and then into the TV .

I should have an RF Modulator somewhere, I'll have to dig that out! I remember those being 45$ back when I bought mine so hopefully I've still got it.

Yeah, all the controls are in the top of the TV under a panel you have to flip up. I've included a picture. Have a great weekend all!

Nix:

I have the Rider's schematic for your set that I can send to you. I would have the Sams for it too but they are in Wisconsin and I will not be back there for a while. PM me with your address if you want a copy of what I have.

Steve

I should have the Sam's (free). Will look tomorrow.
Send me your address.

Larry

Cleveland, huh? I'd almost suggest bringing the cabinet up here-I have a friend who is one of the best refinishers I've ever seen. Reasonable, & pretty quick, too.

Wow guys, thanks for the responses. I sent my address out to you guys, you're a big help. And Sandy, are you serious? I've been mulling this project over with a buddy of mine and I really want this TV to look its best. My buddy's attitude toward it is "it already looks horrible so we can't make it look any worse." I'm a bit of a perfectionist with no know how when it comes to refinishing this thing. In other words, I'd really consider driving a few hours to hand this set off to someone who would do it proper justice. I could take the empty cabinet up and be working on the actual TV in the mean time.

Serious as a heart attack. I sent you a PM w/Jim's contact info in it.

Ha ha, I saw the PM this afternoon and I appreciate it. I'll give him a call Monday to see if we can work something out. I'm hoping if I drop your name he'll give me a discount instead of an ear full!

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=75185&d=1200673278

Is this a hot chassis set? I see a selenium rectifier, and no power transformer.

Yes, one side of the power line goes to ground.

WARNING: Unless you enjoy the feeling of a 60hz handshake, I'd recommend using an isolation transformer when working on, or even using this set. It has a hot chassis, connected directly to one side of the mains.

Saturday was a big mail day for this project, thanks guys! I not only got a Sams but a Rider as well...all much appreciated.

There are a ton of screws keeping me from removing the TV from the cabinet. As I remove a screw I tape it down to a sheet of paper and make a note as to where it came from. I'm doing my best to make this easy to put back together when the time comes. When I feel like I've got them separated I may have to call over a buddy to help, I imagine it being very front heavy.

I took out a few tubes to get a good look at them and noticed the RCA logo wiped right off so I didn't touch any more after that, which was before the I got the schematics.

I've attached a photo of the decoloration of the front speaker cover. After looking at the cloth so faded for so long it will be different to see this cabinet and speaker cover way darker. If anyone's got some cloth like this or has seen any, shoot me a head's up!!! It's hard to tell by the photo but the gold strands are weaved into the fabric.

I was really tempted to drive the cabinet to Jim Obermeyer this weekend but Murphy's Law told me to hold off and see if I could get the TV to work first.

Ok guys, I have one other quick question. I'm looking at this Rider schematic and it has a list of replacement parts. I've gone down the list of capacitors and made a note of all the paper ones. They range in voltage from 200-1000v. There is a stock number as well as a symbol number. Can I get all of these from www.justradios.com and is that the best place to go for these? I guess I want to make sure I'm getting the right things before I place an order. There are about 30 capacitors on this list.

Justradios is a great place to do business with but so is Radio Daze in New York. Most of the caps can be replaced with the 630 volt ones except for the 1000 volt ones. There you will probably have to go with 1600 volt caps. The 200 volt caos can be replaced with 630 volt caps. The actual values should be close, i.e., you can use a .047 in place of a .05 and vice versa.

Steve

Steve, thanks again! I'll get an order together and continue on.