This will be my new tv finds thread from estate sales/resale finds. 2004 got a good start with the first estate sale of the year. I dont get a chance to go every saterday, as I periodically work saterdays. However, I found two very nice sets. First, I found a 1977 Zenith 19" chromacolor II chassis 19JC48. Nice cabinet, its like a woodgrain textured plastic, but all black. Had no pic, simple replacement of the vertical output fuse put it back in perfect working order. It even had the original stand with it. Got it for $5 because it was busted. Nice and clean, couldnt pass it up.
Upstairs in the bedroom was a very nice 1967 zenith 20X1C38 in mint condition. Its a colonial cabinet, but what the heck, I dont have anything like this. They need to be saved too. It was actually playing! I couldnt believe it! It was still hooked up to the outdoor antenna cable. Cost me $30. Brought it home, and did a check up on all the tubes, almost all of them had defects, but not serious enought to mess up the set. After HV adjustment and color touchup, the picture is razor sharp. very pleasing to watch, like the chorma II.

picture of the chomaII, works really nice. Had to do a touchup on the static convergence.

Its got a replacement chormacolor CRT that went it 1-7-77. So it took 10 years to kill the original. Seems like CRTs would only get about 10 years of strong use. The tv was well cared for, but used a bit. All tubes were changed over the years. Typical annoying green halo.

The 20X1C38 is probably the best chassis they ever built. Perhaps its good luck, but of the 3 sets with the 20X1C38 chassis, they all worked near perfect when I found them. Looks like the tech that installed the new crt did a nice job of it, all the wires are tied back together with the factory tie wire etc. This tv was in a good clean enviroment all these years, rust free chassis.

picture looks as good as new. The color really shows nice on this one. Looks like I need to adjust the blue dynamic for the right side.

Thought I would also share my first find of the year. Got this Zenith at a thrift store for free. A woman had it in the back of a pick up and was going to donate it. I asked her if I could have it ans she said yes. Her son helped me load it on to my truck. With it not working they would have destroyed the set. Kind of glad I spotted it. Chassis is 25CC50 and it has a 25VAMP22 CRT. It is a tube and transister set. The CRT in the set tests good. Currently the HV is not working. I will have to troubleshoot that this week.

Nice sets posted above. You seem to find some good sets at estate sales. I have found a couple in the past. Not at the rate you are finding them. Good Job!

polaraman

Nice looking sets, guys! :)

Great find polaraman! Thats great you were able to pick it out before the thrift shop got ahold of it. It would have gone straight to the dumpster, even if it worked probably. Resale shops around here "cycle" through the tvs. Basically, it will be on the sales floor for a few weeks, if they dont sell, into the dumpster. Then the next bunch will take their place and so on. TVs are basically impossible to sell at resale shops, as most are non cable ready sets from the 80s with UHF and VHF dial tuners. nobody wants that. I try to go to all the local estate sales every other weekend. WHen I get home from work on fridays, I try to hit the ones I think might be worth it. Thats how I found these two, I went back saterday to pick them up at half price! Lets keep finding them! BTW, the 25CC50 is a 1972 set. It has an IC for the chroma demod. Mostly an all tube set yet, which is good. Let us know how it works out when you start taking it apart.

Doug (drh4683),


I just saw the pics of your latest Zenith finds. They all look as if they are in excellent condition, and the pictures look great as well. :thmbsp: It's great when all one has to do is something simple like replacing a fuse or a tube, etc. to get a set working. I restored many an old set just in that fashion when I was collecting them about 30-some years ago. It has been stated, here in this forum, that the only reason old sets were discarded in the '60s through the '80s was, generally, that the owners bought newer sets with larger pictures, more features, etc., not necessarily because the sets were not working. Those which were inoperable for any reason could often be brought back to life by a simple tube or fuse replacement; in some (an awful lot) of these cases the sets had nothing whatsoever wrong with them. Today, it is all too common to see late model Guide Plus RCAs and those troublesome Goldenith or "GZ" (my terms for today's cross between Gold Star and Zenith) TVs coming off GS's assembly lines in Korea (and RCAs coming from Thomson's own overseas plants) on treelawns and curbs the minute something--anything--goes wrong with them after the warranty expires. The glory days and years of once proud U. S. home-entertainment equipment manufacturers such as the original RCA, Zenith and all the other formerly great names in television and radio (Philco, Admiral, Packard Bell, et al.) are now only memories.

BTW: I'm curious. What station, network, etc. is channel 26 in the Chicago area? I ask this because the picture you took off the screen of one of your Zeniths (the one with the Colonial style cabinet) looks like it was from a public-service or educational cable channel; that and the fact that the person in the picture had a smock on that has "Cleveland Clinic" embroidered on it. I now live in a very small town in Lake County, Ohio about 30 miles from Cleveland, but I grew up in the suburbs, so am very familiar with the Cleveland Clinic. What was the connection between it and Chicago in that program?

Good luck with your "new" Zeniths, Doug. I do wonder, though; where on earth are you keeping all those sets?

polaraman,

I concur wholeheartedly with the comments on your latest find. Those older Zenith TVs are great; I've had a few of them in my time, and now collect small Zenith radios (I have one from '51 in my bedroom and a very nice walnut-cabinet AM/FM from '63 atop the refrigerator in my apartment, which both work--and well).

I did not realize, however, that the set you have was the first Zenith chassis to use an IC as the chroma demodulator. I don't know offhand what vintage that set is, but seeing that it has a UHF tuner it must have been made after April 30, 1964. However, as to the chroma IC, I think this was Zenith's answer to RCA's first use of an IC in its sets in the audio circuit, or perhaps it was the other way around, depending entirely on the vintage of your Zenith (RCA introduced the IC-based audio system in one of its small portables in 1966).

Doug (drh4683),

I goofed in my reply to your post; for this I apologize. I just took another look at the pic I mentioned in my last post, that had the doctor with a Cleveland Clinic Foundation smock. I saw the small window at the bottom right corner of the screen of your Zenith TV, and it showed "26" all right--but that was 26 degrees (the air temperature at the time in Chicago, no doubt, as there was a degree symbol following the number), not channel 26 as I had originally thought (and was all too quick to post). I guess I'll just have to be a little more careful from now on as to what I say when I respond to a post, making sure of the facts first.

Good luck, again, with your "new" Zenith TVs. I agree; those chassis, especially the 20X1C38, were, as you mentioned, the best the original Zenith Radio Corporation of Chicago ever made. (I have relatives who have owned and still own older Zenith televisions, made when the company was still in Chicago; the sets are still going strong.)

No offense meant or intended, but today's "Goldenith/GZ" (my term for today's "Zeniths" made by Gold Star) sets cannot now and never will equal, let alone surpass, the quality of those earlier handwired sets. I'm sure I am not the first one to say this; it has been mentioned many times before in posts to threads on sci.electronics.repair and other electronic servicing message boards.

BTW: I have seen the "green halo" on Zenith CRTs mentioned here quite a bit; it's on one of your sets as well. What causes this?

BTW (2): What is the problem with the CRTs in today's Gold Star/Zenith (Goldenith/GZ) TVs? For that matter, are there any other problems with the chassis in these sets (poor construction, bad solder joints, etc.) that has given the new "Zenith" such a rotten reputation?

Thanks for reading.

Kind regards,

The green halo is caused by the aging of the material that bonds the safety glass to the CRT. It's similar to the cataract problem common to RCAs. It could be repaired by removing the safety glass and cleaning out all th ebonding material.

The recent Zenith CRTs that failed were made from 1993 to about 1995. From what I saw, they had a 100% failure rate within 2-3 years of normal use. At this time, Zenith was still a company, but LG partially owned the company. The chassis in these sets looked very similar to previous Zenith sets, but performed much worse. HV regulation and the overall look of the picture was much worse for some reason. I think Zenith became completely owned by LG in about 1999. Shortly after this LG closed the Zenith CRT plant. I think LG designs all the sets with the Zenith name now.

From about 1995-1999 the quality of Zenith's CRTs improved a little, but they still had a very short life.

I have to wonder if LG intentionally trashed Zenith so they could buy the name cheaply and not have trouble shutting down all the US engineering and manufacturing.

I personally think Zenith was still making reasonably good products right up to when the CRTs started failing in 1993 just after LG gained a large influence in the company.

Hey jeff, no problem. That channel you were seeing is channel 32 WFLD chicago. Luckily, we have tons of UHF channels here, so the sets get good use throughout the entire dial. I always felt the 20X1C38 to be one of the better chassis. Ive got alot of zenith sets, with different chassis types. Of the tube type chassis, this one uses the fewest filter caps, no 6BK4 shunt regulator (6HS5 pulse regulator). I have 3 sets with this chassis, they work well.

Got this 1961 Magnavox B/W console today (432 traube, clarendon hills, IL) for FREE! It was still in the living room! Its hard to immagine the people that lived in that home actually had the same TV in the living room since 1961! It didnt work of course. The estate sale people were actually upset that I wanted to take it on the spot. They had alot of silverware junk on top of it, and the house was jammed with people!
Got it home, got the dust out of it, had an IF and vertical problem. CRT socket needed to be resoldered, needed a resistor in the vertical size circuit to get the picture to extend, and a coupling cap from the 2nd to 3rd IF was open. A bunch of tubes needed changing as well. The interesting part about this set, its a 27" screen! Its HUGE! Never seen a B/w set this big of screen before. Looks nice

picture looks good now. When It had the IF problem, the raster was blank and you would hear that cool blerping sound from the speaker. Dont know why, always liked that sound. CRT is pretty strong too.

back of the set looks cool. I could see the back from the picture window before I walked in!

Hi Doug (drh4683),

This is only a hunch, but that sound you were hearing from your '61 Magnavox TV's speaker may have been something oscillating somewhere--maybe one of the video IF stages or even the 4.5-MHz sound detector went into regeneration, but it's difficult to say from this distance.

However, your set's picture looks good now. It's great when you can get an old set like this working that well. I haven't seen any of the early '60s Magnavox sets, especially with large screens (except one white French Provincial remote set), on this forum lately until now; most sets with the Magnavox name on them are made by Phillips today, and are of much lower quality than the originals--in fact, from what I've seen and read, the newer Maggies are built so cheaply (offshore, like everything else these days) it isn't funny. No wonder these sets (as well as the Thomson-built RCAs and GS-built Zeniths) wind up in the trash so often these days when they go bad (especially after a CRT failure.)


One question, though. Why on earth would anyone keep a TV set from 1961 in their living room for 43 years if the set isn't working, and possibly hadn't been working for years or decades? :dunno: What did they use that Maggie for, anyway? You said there was a lot of "silverware junk" on top of it. I can only guess. . . .

BTW, the loose CRT base, not to mention the other circuit problems you found, doesn't surprise me in a set that old. It's a good thing you cemented it back on before it came off entirely, as when you lose the base on one of these tubes, you have a big job on your hands if you have to replace it. I once had a Philco Microgrid "390" 21-inch b&w console with the same problem, only the base came off in my hand one day while I was working on the chassis. I managed to solder the leads from the chassis to the wire stubs at the end of the CRT neck and get the set working for awhile, but eventually one lead broke off, shorted across a couple others, and of course it ruined the tube immediately. :( I don't know what it did to the rest of the set, but at that point it didn't matter anymore as I had to get rid of it anyway (I moved a few months later, so had to get rid of every one of my old TVs, including that Philco and a 23" Zenith b&w console, in a hurry). :(


Kind regards,

Just picked this one out off the curb a few days ago. Its a 23DC14 all steel cabinet "chromacolor" set with space command 500. Couldnt believe it was a space command. Gotta fix it, but its going to take lots of work to bring it back.

Got this remote set from dwight, had to finish off the restoration. he put a new fly in it last year. Had to work on the remote chassis, convergence, convergence yoke got replaced, as the original was craked and broken. What is so unique about this set is that it has motorized continuous UHF tuning. An inductive pick up off the IF coil (the inductive pick up is directly proportional to signal strength) in which the continuous uhf tuner stops as soon as the signal strength reaches its peak point to its tuned circuit. Very cleaver, and works perfectly. Basically, a removable wire loop over an IF serves a a secondary winding like a transformer. When the signal is strong enough, a voltage is generated in the lead which conducts a transistor to cutoff shuting off the channel selector relay. Thus the channel stops. Its an entirely basic, all electronic method of channel selection for both VHF and UHF. This cleaver set up eliminates star wheels, mechanical adjustments etc. All motorized color and tint controls. However, the set for some unfortunate reason has a volume stepper like the zeniths. I was never too impressed with volume steppers as you have 3 selectable volume ranges, and those depend on how the volume control itself it set. I always wondered why zenith never advanced to electronic ultrasonics. I love zeniths space command sets, but they are not as practical as rca's and mag's electronic. RCA in perticular is best, as you have a motorized volume control as well as motorized color/hue.
Im impressed with how nice the picture looks after servicing. The picture is so clean and crisp and the colors are outstanding. As an interesting note, I have observed that the frech provincial sets are most likely to have a remote option, as those who purchased this style of set were a bit more wealthy and could easily afford it.

you can see inside the set is crammed with wires and chassis, all of which had to be removed in order to service the crt.

when I had the chassis out, it got cleaned up and all tubes were replaced as nessisary. In this photo, you see the remote controlled tuner assy. Notice all the motors. That TMA weights a ton for its size!

Here is the dial panel. All "motorized" tuner fuctions are performed by buttons along the top of the panel. UHF up, UHF down, VHF, and volume stepper.

I have found a couple of those type sets, just in the mahogany and pecan cabinets though. I had to re-tune another Mag. remote to operate the functions as the original was lost. One time I was thinking about adapting either the color or tint motor functions to adjust the volume, as I hardly ever have to change the tint/color, but never did it. I have found that these Mag. sets have some of the best pictures, beating out RCA...unfortunately 2 of mine have weak CRT's. That's the only bad part about a durable, well built set...people play it till the CRT gets so weak they can barely see the picture.

Zenith did make an ultrasonic remote control w/more than 3 volume steps, in 1979. It is electronic, battery powered, not the tone rods. There is also a manual volume pot on the set to set the maximum desired volume level. You can still hear the volume change by steps but there must be 10 or 15 steps from min. to max. volume so you have pretty good control.

I know zenith made a very advanced ultrasonic remote for a short time. It had digital tuning with on screen display. The remote had a full keypad, power, volume and mute.

Picked up this nice 1972 Motorola quasar. Needed some minor work to bring it back to good working order. Has instant on, so the crt got years of useless burning of the filaments, which of course weakened it pretty good.

The inside is pretty nice. Its dated july 11 1972, all boards are dated 72. ONly a 4 tube set, for the deflection circuits.

This set actually appears to be a hitachi, before the name "sharp" was bought by matsushita (panasonic). Its a 7 tube set, and works great. Its actually a pretty well built set, solid VHF tuner.

Picked up a ctc22 ej507 known as the "headliner". I have the other ctc22, the ej505, which is basically the same set with different color cabinet and knobs. Has an IF problem and horizontal width problems.

Hi Doug,
I used to have a Motorola/Quasar just like yours. I had it for years until the video board went bad in it. Since i couldnt locate another board and the crt was weak (yep, same problem) it went to the dumpster. I wish i had it back now because i stumble across the boards occasionally now along with the crt's. I had a Sharp like yours also. Was always a good player and it ended up at a relatives when their tv went finally gave up the ghost. As far as i know , they still have it and its still playing well. They use it in their bedroom hooked to a cable box so they have remote. Nice to see you found another CTC22..they are one of my favorite RCA portables.
Tony

Doug (drh4683),

That is exactly why I never liked the "instant-on" feature of many early '70s TVs. As you noted, it takes hours off the lives of the tube filaments and weakens the CRT a lot, once the set has been constantly on for a few years. Another reason I didn't care for instant-on is that it could be a fire hazard, as the tube filaments in sets with this feature are on around the clock--whether or not the main power switch is on (in other words, the set is never completely off unless one physically unplugs it from the wall socket). Yet another reason I did not like instant-on is the fact that lightning strikes near the power line to which the set is connected would often damage (short) the instant-on diode, which is connected directly across the main switch. With the diode shorted, it is now impossible to turn the set off with the power switch. The only way to turn off the set in this case would be to pull the plug. I heard of a lot of people who just left their sets in that condition when the diode shorted, or else if they knew how to do it, they would take the back off and cut the diode out of the circuit. The TV worked just as well without the diode as with it.

Nice sets Doug! I love your "new estate sale finds" posts. I bet I know where that Quasar is going!

Jeff-the story about the diode finally explains a story a girl in school told the class about 20 years ago-that lightning struck their house tearing up the tv set, and then it would not shut off. I never could figure it out, for some reason.

Originally posted by drh4683
Just picked this one out off the curb a few days ago. Its a 23DC14 all steel cabinet "chromacolor" set with space command 500. Couldnt believe it was a space command. Gotta fix it, but its going to take lots of work to bring it back.


Doug, I'm curious. Does that set work at all in its present condition? I ask this because of your comment to the effect that it will take "a lot of work" to get it going again. From your description, it sounds to me like the set has sustained some rather major damage, such as from a shorted CRT, a lightning strike, etc.

The set is beyond restoration unfortunatly. I picked it up an night, so I really didnt get to see what it looked like untill I brought the disaster into my basment. You be the judge...............
Is scrap.

As you can see the TV is basically rusting away thanks to it being kept outside for however many years. What a dissapointment, and a space command on top of it. The bottom grille peice was missing. When the TV was sitting outside, it sank into the mud, mud caked underneath the chassis. The set went to the junk pile. Only kept the sc chassis and the convergence board.

Wow :eek: looks a little like the Titanic!
The CRT was bad too?

Originally posted by drh4683
The set is beyond restoration unfortunatly. I picked it up an night, so I really didnt get to see what it looked like untill I brought the disaster into my basment. You be the judge...............
Is scrap.

Sorry to hear that. :(

I just looked at the pics of that set's chassis. You're right; the TV is junk, except for the two components you salvaged from it (the Space Command receiver and convergence board). I wouldn't have tried to plug in a set that rusted out, especially after it had been sitting out in snow, rain, you name it, for heaven only knows how long. Who knows what shorts may have been under the chassis or how many shorted/ruined components there might be? You might have had a year's worth of repairs to do on that set alone.

Hope you find another set like that one with SC. Because your neighborhood is the former home of Zenith in Chicago, another such set (or one like it) should appear at a curbside near you eventually.

BTW, I'm a bit surprised you didn't save the tubes from that chassis--or maybe you did (you didn't mention in your last post what you did with them). When I was collecting old TVs 30+ years ago, if I had a set I couldn't repair (which happened every now and again), I would pull the tubes and salvage every usable component I could find. By the time I moved and left my hometown in 1999 I had several boxes full of parts salvaged from old TVs and radios over the years. Unfortunately, I had to give them all up when I moved to my present residence, a small one-bedroom apartment. These places just aren't conducive to repair work, although one AK member mentioned having a collection of old TVs in his apartment late last year.

Again, I wish you good luck finding another SC500 TV.

Kind regards,

The worst one I've ever brought back was this 15" Zenith. It took a lot of time with a wire brush wheel. Amazingly, it did work as I found it after replacing a few cracked tubes.

It hasn't given me any trouble in almost 2 years of regular use.

Doug, did you try to power up the set...probably would've got a raster and sound! Those Zeniths are tough!

Jeff, could you have rented a storage locker to store your extra equipment in? I stored a player piano, school bus, etc. at one for a while till I could find myself a house where I live now.
When I lived in an apartment I had about 50 Tv's in there--even removed the doors on the bedroom and closet so I could get more in. Had to haul those consoles up the outside staircase by myself!

Originally posted by Chad Hauris
Jeff, could you have rented a storage locker to store your extra equipment in? I stored a player piano, school bus, etc. at one for a while till I could find myself a house where I live now.
When I lived in an apartment I had about 50 Tv's in there--even removed the doors on the bedroom and closet so I could get more in. Had to haul those consoles up the outside staircase by myself!

Thanks for the suggestion.

I probably will do just that if I decide to get back into collecting old TVs, but for now I think I'll stick with small radios (they take up much less room and are easier to repair).

One of the reasons I didn't get a storage locker for my old gear when I moved four years ago was, very simply, the thought never crossed my mind (I had a lot more important things to think about at the time); same thing with all the old TVs I had in the late '60s-early '70s.

Yep, I did attempt to power it up just for the heck of it. Got nothing at all, filiments light up though. Didnt have any B+. Tested the crt and my crIII couldnt bring it back. The whole set was shot. Like I say, It was only good for a couple parts, the rest of it got junked. Way too much rust and corrision to deal with + it had missing parts. All the knobs that adjust the h.hold, vert. hold color etc had shrink tube on the shafts as some fool took the knobs off and either used them for another thing or lost them. The worst part is, IT JUST HAD TO BE A SPACE COMMAND!!!

Even though its not a tv, its just as good. Its a zenith HIFI from 63, got it for $25 at an estate sale in excellent condition and working order. Its got FM stereo as well.
I dont have any zenith console stereos of this age. I was always a grundig/german hi fi fan, but now that Ive got this zenith, I like it more than all the others. Its built just as good as the tvs, with the same quality components. Its got 2 elecrostatic tweeters, horn tweeter and mid range speakers for each channel. I must say, with the 7189 finals, this thing blows you away! It came with ALL the paper work and indicates that this is an 82 watt amplifier.
Im normally not an audio nut, but in this case I am because its a zenith! Never had a zenith console anything like this. Its going into the living room!

cabinet

I love the control panel, the bass, treble, and presence indicators have colors blubs that arc in variation with the knob.

The turntable is a true zenith turntable, belt drive and has a built in 45 spindel that actually hinges in half and folds slightly beneath the surface of the turntable. This is an outstanding phono unit. The needle cartridge is suspended by two springs and as the paperwork indicates, no matter what you do you cant ruin a record by dropping jarring, or sliding the tonearm on the record. It absorbs shock very well too, record doest skip, miss or flutter when the doors are opened or closed.

you can tell its a zenith just by looking at the well designed chassis

This is the last year zenith had a tube type amplifier for their HI FI equipment. This set uses 4 7189's and has a nice 5U4 Low voltage rectifier. This is probably the best console Ive ever heard!

Doug (drh4683),

I just saw the pics of your Zenith stereo. Great! You're right. Zenith audio/stereo gear was built every bit as well as their TV sets in the '50s until GS bought them out, which is why I like pre-GS Zenith gear every bit as much as you do.

I have a Zenith K731 (chassis 7M07), an ebay find last year. It's also a 1963 (!) model; the picture of it is below (in my next post). Got it for just a hair under $25 from a guy in Florida, and I was the only bidder! The radio is in a large and rather heavy walnut table-model cabinet, but I swear, it sounds like a console (with its 6x9 oval speaker, electrostatic tweeter [the latter being the first one of its kind I have ever seen in over 30 years of electronics experimenting] and tone-compensation circuitry, not to mention a wide-range tone control--and I like it, a lot. It has become my favorite Zenith, next to my H511. Man, this thing has incredible sound for a table-model set, especially in the bass range! I keep it tuned mostly to AM standards and oldies stations (there are two such stations within 50 miles of my small town that come in very well; I'm only sorry one of the stations is daytime only), although it sounds great on FM as well. (Another of my favorite oldies stations is on FM, which this receiver reproduces every bit as well as AM--another hallmark of pre-GS Zenith audio gear. My next TV may well be a used Zenith from perhaps the mid-'70s. I like Zenith, as I have for many years, but don't want or need the aggravations GS-built "Zeniths" seem to bring with them. As you and I, and every Zenith collector, knows by now, the Zenith name on these GS-built sets doesn't mean anything anymore.)

BTW, what are the three colored lights for on the tuning dial of your console's AM/FM tuner? I'm guessing they are function indicators (AM, FM, phono). And that record changer--boy, they don't make them like that anymore! That changer is the first one I have ever seen in a console that will almost ignore vibration and/or mechanical shocks. That it is nearly impossible to damage records with this changer, even if you scrape the tone arm across the record :eek: as you say, seems incredible. (That's practically the same claim the original Magnavox Company of Fort Wayne, IN, made for its Micromatic record changer in the '50s and '60s. This changer had an almost incredible 0.5-gram [IIRC] tone-arm tracking force, which Magnavox claimed would "banish record wear" to make records last virtually forever as I read in an advertisement for the Micromatic used in one of Magnavox's fabulous 3-way color theatre consoles of the mid-1960s. Whether this was true or just advertising hooey by Magnavox [in direct competition with Zenith, RCA and other manufacturers of stereo consoles of the period], however, I don't know.)

Not to be long-winded, but I have one more question. I just saw the picture of your set's power amp/power supply section, with the 5U4 rectifier. You said in the pic's caption that 1963 was the last year Zenith used tube amplifiers in its stereo consoles. I thought they had waited until the '70s or later to abandon tubes. Did Zenith even make stereo console units (stereo radio/phono alone, no TV) after 1963, and if so, were they all solid state? Somehow, I can't see them using solid-state circuitry in any of their audio or TV gear at any time in the '60s (was always under the impression that they had waited until at least the late '70s or early '80s to make the switch to full solid-state production; I once had a Zenith modular stereo, solid-state, with a BSR changer, which was made in the early '80s).

Here's a picture of my Zenith K-731, ch. 7M07:
(finally got the attach function to work)

Doug, You ALWAYS find the good stuff!!!!!! :)

Wonder if it was playing when "We interrupt this program for a special news bulletin. President Kennedy has been shot in Dallas-" came on. In any case, it sure is lovely. Bet it cost a small fortune when new. -Sandy G.

My mother still has her Zenith console stereo, which must have been one of the last. Dad got it for her for Christmas, maybe 1980? Was the same year I got my Lionel train. Anyway, great sound, at least to my tin ears. Hmm...it might be looking for a home soon, though it won't be here 'cause I'm already loaded to the gills. In the late 80s I bought an early solid state Zenith console stereo (late 60s?) and while it didn't quite match Mom's it was pretty good.

Tonight my wife brought home one of those 70s Zenith "Circle of Sound" clock radios. A co-worker asked if maybe I could fix it. Turned out to be just dirty controls. While I had it open I noticed it was made by GoldStar. Depsite that, not a bad radio as these things go.

Just picked this set up saterday. Got it for free. Its an all metal cabinet sylvania color set from 68. Doesnt work, but it will be soon. Luckily its in nice shape.

Doug,
I used to have a small console like that Sylvania and it had one of the better color pictures that I've seen on a 60s set. Too bad, I was pretty helpless back then and when the vertical went out I tossed it.

Yes-- Zenith DID make console stereos all the way through the 1960's- into the late '70', I think.

1964 was the first year for the solid-state AMP and PREAMP form Zenith. It was in their top-of-the-line console, and the tuner section was still tubes.( I own a roundie color combo with this setup- chassis # 25lc20qs(TV), 11l8t25( tuner), and 8lt25(amp). Most of the other Zenith stereo products in '64 were still all tube In '65, they still had the hybrid setup, but in '66, they went to all-solid-state, for most of their consoles

This information is NOT a guess- it comes from a number of Zenith hi-fi manuals I have, ranging from the early 60's,(1962 is the oldest), into the mid 70's.

I worked on a Zenith console stereo for someone that must have beem very late '70's if not early 80's. It consists of a Zenith stereo receiver mounted in the cabinet....the chassis was not specifically designed to be a console unit. Also has a magnetic-cartridge phono, cassette player, and 8-track...the sound quality is very good.

The latest estate sale find is this 1963 Zenith b/w 19" portable, with a 15K37T chassis. Whats unique about this set is that it has the optional sleep timer on it. It has a variable time limit up to 3 hours. Works too! The set came from 1145 Alima, LaGrange Park, IL for $10. Its funny as when I walked in the people at the house were surprised to see me and asked what it was that I was looking for. I said "old tvs". The lady said weve got one downstairs, and to my luck it was a zenith portable, and older than expected model. I generally dont find sets in the 1962-1964 range.
It works of course when I found it! Only tubes it needed were the 6EA8 mixer/osc, and a 6BZ6 3rd IF to bring it back strong again.

Heres the side view with the sleep timer.

Inside view.

The "T" followed by the chassis number indicates "Timer" for models equiped with sleep timer. Also has dual speakers.

Cool Zenith! Must have been pretty fancy for a portable to have a sleep timer and dual speakers! Nice shiny chassis, too.

I realize that this is a TV forum, but Doug's Zenith console reminds me of this 1966 Zenith "portable" stereo combination (a model X584) that I got a few years ago. I love this thing! It's essentially a low-end Zenith console system that was sold in a portable cabinet with swing-out speakers (which can also be detached if desired), and the changer mounted on a swing-out frame. It is entirely tube-based, which suprised me when I first got it home. [alas, the output stages are single-ended.]

I found this set in an antique store where it had been hiding for years (along with a bunch of other items) underneath a table in the store's basement. I had actually passed this thing up on a couple of previous visits to that store (only the edge of the cabinet was visible), but one day it caught my eye again, and I felt curious enough to pull it out of its hiding place and open 'er up and see what it was. I've never been big on 60's-era stereo consoles and portable phonos, but I was immediately fond of this guy.

Like Doug's console, the tone arm has a remarkably light tracking force for a ceramic cartridge, but the changer mechanism is Zenith's usual rebadged V-M from that era, and not the nifty high-end Zenith changer like the one on Doug's console. Sound quality is okay on phono for a cermamic cartridge, and is quite pleasant to listen to on FM.

This machine came with all of its original paperwork, including the original store receipt..! (cost: $199.95 + tax on 11/12/1966) What's [I]more amusing, though, is that the TV store it was originally purchased from is only about one block from the antique store I bought it from! [Actually, that should be was, since the TV store has since closed, evidently meeting a simiar fate to most other small-town indenpendent TV retailers.]

--Marty

Whoops, looks like my attachment didn't attach. Sorry 'bout that. Let's see if it works this time...

Marty,

Glad you joined! That zenith portable unit is great! Never seen anything like that one. Looks like brand new. Ive done some info and research on the phono in my console. Its actually co-designed by CBS and zenith.

Hey Doug,

Glad to be here-- thanks for letting me know that there were others out there with some interest in 60's/70's-era TV technology..!

I've never seen another Zenith "portable" stereo AM/FM/phono combination like mine either, though I have seen a few rather slim Zenith "mini" consoles from roughly the same era that have fold-out/detachable speakers.

By the way, I just realized that I happen to have the Zenith service manual for what I believe is the record changer mechanism used in your stereo console; let me know if you ever need a copy!

--Marty
...who promises that his next post in the TV forums will actually be about TV sets... :)

hi marty,

thanks for letting me know about the service manual. No problem on discussing non tv equipment! Im the moderator on this forum and im not strickt about anything as long as everyone gets along:)

Shut up or else!

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/slug.gif

:D :D :D

Anthony

Originally posted by Whirled One
I realize that this is a TV forum, but Doug's Zenith console reminds me of this 1966 Zenith "portable" stereo combination (a model X584) that I got a few years ago. I love this thing! It's essentially a low-end Zenith console system that was sold in a portable cabinet with swing-out speakers (which can also be detached if desired), and the changer mounted on a swing-out frame. It is entirely tube-based, which suprised me when I first got it home. [alas, the output stages are single-ended.]

I found this set in an antique store where it had been hiding for years (along with a bunch of other items) underneath a table in the store's basement. I had actually passed this thing up on a couple of previous visits to that store (only the edge of the cabinet was visible), but one day it caught my eye again, and I felt curious enough to pull it out of its hiding place and open 'er up and see what it was. I've never been big on 60's-era stereo consoles and portable phonos, but I was immediately fond of this guy.

Like Doug's console, the tone arm has a remarkably light tracking force for a ceramic cartridge, but the changer mechanism is Zenith's usual rebadged V-M from that era, and not the nifty high-end Zenith changer like the one on Doug's console. Sound quality is okay on phono for a cermamic cartridge, and is quite pleasant to listen to on FM.

This machine came with all of its original paperwork, including the original store receipt..! (cost: $199.95 + tax on 11/12/1966) What's [I]more amusing, though, is that the TV store it was originally purchased from is only about one block from the antique store I bought it from! [Actually, that should be was, since the TV store has since closed, evidently meeting a simiar fate to most other small-town indenpendent TV retailers.]

--Marty


I like all kinds of Zenith gear as well, Marty. Been interested in this make for most of my years of fiddling with electronics, radio and TV (I'm almost 48 now; I've been an electronics bug since the age of 8 and a ham radio operator the last 32 years as well). Had a basement full of Zenith TVs, radios, etc. in the late '60s-early '70s. I own two old Zenith radios today, one antique [1951], one not quite there yet [1963]. Both were ebay scores, one last year, the other about two years ago.

I like your "new" Zenith combo unit. Never saw one like that before now, although I have seen several models of Zenith's portable stereo phonographs; in fact, I had one, without the AM/FM tuner, in the late '70s. Mine was made, I believe, in the mid-1960s (I remember seeing one on the set of an old movie some years ago). It worked well as long as I had it; in fact, it worked as soon as I got it home (it was a trash-day find, as are most sets we AK members have in our collections). Don't remember (or perhaps I never knew) what type of cartridge the changer in mine had, although if pressed for a quick answer I would guess it was ceramic. Whatever it was, it sounded really good and worked well, as do all Zeniths before the '90s or so. Those old sets were built for high fidelity, high sensitivity in the case of radios and TV sets, and to last. (My Zenith K731 AM/FM radio from 1963 sounds almost incredibly good, especially in the bass range, for a table radio, but it was made with a 5x7 oval speaker and electrostatic tweeter, 19T8 first audio amp, 35C5 output, and is housed in a large and heavy walnut cabinet, not to mention probably having one or more tone-compensation circuits and a wide-range tone control.)

BTW: Is the FM tuner in your unit built for stereo FM reception, or is it just standard FM? I saw the function switch on the front panel, but couldn't tell if it had a position for stereo FM, FM MPX or MX, etc.

BTW (2): Before I saw yours, I had never seen a combo unit with the AM and FM dial scales right next to each other horizontally (rather than one below the other or vertically beside each other and separated by a logging scale, the latter being common in consoles). I hate to think what the dial cord drive arrangement looked like from the back. Seems to me it would have been one heck of a job to restring this thing to operate two dial pointers at the same time, and to eliminate pointer backlash (which often caused the dial pointer to indicate the wrong frequency when tuned to a station; I've seen radios so bad in this regard that when the thing was tuned, for example, to a station on 1100 KHz the pointer would be on 900 or thereabouts).

BTW (3): I had an errand to run last night and saw a Zenith System 3 (or was it Space Command?) table-model 19- or 21-inch TV sitting in back of one of the apartment buildings in my small town. When I got done with my errand and was coming home, however, the set was gone. Either someone had put it out by accident or some other electronics bug got to it before I could; I'll never know now. The set had the random-access keypad and, I'm sure, the LED channel indicator to the right of the CRT; I could swear I saw the words "System 3" above the panel, so maybe my first hunch was correct.

Just picked this mint sears portable up today at an estate sale in 10531 chaucer ave westchester IL for $20 . These sets are extremely hard to find! Especially with the original knobs and working! I have run across sets like this and the slider knobs seem to always be missing.
This set is model 4158, the sears source number is 564.80130. The TV works like brand new with beautiful picture. Has a japanese color tube, tests almost 100%, all original sears tubes too. The TV never got used, however the radio did and I will disucss that later.
The CRT is dated "JUNE 1969" I was a year off, I thought it was a 68 when I spotted it. Came with the original TV stand too. After some research on the sears source number prefex, the set was made for sears by SANYO! I generally think of sanyo as junk by todays standards, but this is one hell of a good well built set. Very heavy and very solid construction. The best part is, its an ALL tube sets, zero transistors (excluding the UHF mixer osc of course) Has 21 tubes! Luckily they are all normal american tube numbers. Its a series string set, so there are some typical japanese tubes like the 8JV8, 4EH7 etc. This set uses a 6BK4 HV regulator!

a side view. The set is exremely deep and very bulky and heavy! The way old color tvs should be! The crt is almost exactly the RCA bonded lens crts. However the bonding material is 100% clear and perfect in this set.

Re: dial scales, Philco used a lot of side by side am and fm dial scales in sets of the 60's and 70's. I have not opened up the sets to see how the dial cord is but it likely is a similar arrangement to a standard side by side dial but just longer with two dial pointers attached.

21 tubes in this set!

As for the radio in this tv, it does not work. The on off switch to the radio is broken in the ON position. A tek cut the wires to the radio on off vol switch and jumped them together. Basically the volume down would basically be "off". As a result of this decision, the radio power transformer fried out. When I found the tv, it was still plugged in behind a dresser in the bedroom with the rabbit ears up, so the set was plugged in for many years I belive and with the radio really never being off, the trans fried out. The primary winding is open. I would like to find a replacement, Ive seen this exact transformer in many other solid state japanese radios. The radio in the tv is basically a simple transistor radio with the seprate power supply as shown. I would immaging a late 60s-early 70's sanyo solid state table radio will have all the parts I need to fix this up. Too bad that had to happen! Oh well, should be an easy fix when I find the parts. I believe the transformer steps the voltage down to 9 volts as the filter cap is rated 1000uf at 10volts.
Here are the numbers stamped on the trans. R-W7103b

Hey everyone,

Thanks again for the welcome, and thanks Doug for not objecting to my "co-opting" your interesting thread on your estate sale finds. :)

A couple quick responses regarding questions on my Zenith "portable" stereo combination:

Yes, overall it's in very nice shape cosmetically-- pretty much all I had to do was clean off all the accumulated dust (probably from sitting unwanted in that antique store). However, most of the credit for its current condition probably goes to the original owner. When I got this set, I found no fewer than *three* old, worn styli in its storage compartment (the door visible to the left of the record changer; the compartment is big enough to store 45's). Evidently, it's a fairly high-mileage machine despite its physical appearance. [After I got it, I immediately ordered a new stylus, so now there are *four* worn-out styli in all sitting there...]

Yep; the tuner indeed has a stereo multiplex decoder for FM..![You can also see the stereo "beacon" light in the upper right-hand corner of the front panel, above the words "STEREOPHONIC FM" (which admittedly aren't very legible given the resolution of the image). ]

As for the dial-cord stringing pattern, I don't think there's actually anything particularly complex going on. It's basically like Chad said-- it just has an double-length scale with two dial pointers instead of one. Probably just an attempt to make it look more "high tech". [Chad's also right about Philco-- I was actually going to point out that the computer I'm typing this on, in fact, has its audio run through a late-60's Philco stereo receiver (really just a stand-alone version of a Philco stereo console chassis) with exactly this type of dual AM/FM dial arrangement.]

Attached are a couple more images; the lower one is what the Zenith "portable console" looks like when the speakers are closed. Notice that Zenith disguised the perforated backs of the speaker cabinets ("infinite baffle") with more speaker cloth. :)
[I think most of those portable stereo phonos had cloth-covered perforated backs like that too, come to think of it.]

--Marty

Doug,
I think just about any AC/DC portable radio would have an acceptable power transformer. I think I have a couple old junk portable radios in the basement. If I get the chance I'll rumage around down there this weekend and see what I can come up with. If I find anything I will let you know here. Observation: I've worked on a few of these sets and the tuner assembly is a real bear to get out of there.
Jeff (PUNK ROCK DUDE)

It's worth stripping off the outer layers of tape from that transformer. Many times there is a small thermal fuse that's open, or the break is close to where it connects to the primary wires.

Thanks for the pointers, I'll take the tape off and see. Just by looking at the mounting of the tuner, I can tell its going to be a pain. Very crowded cabinet.

Originally posted by drh4683
As for the radio in this tv, it does not work. The on off switch to the radio is broken in the ON position. A tek cut the wires to the radio on off vol switch and jumped them together. Basically the volume down would basically be "off". As a result of this decision, the radio power transformer fried out. When I found the tv, it was still plugged in behind a dresser in the bedroom with the rabbit ears up, so the set was plugged in for many years I belive and with the radio really never being off, the trans fried out. The primary winding is open. I would like to find a replacement, Ive seen this exact transformer in many other solid state japanese radios. The radio in the tv is basically a simple transistor radio with the seprate power supply as shown. I would immaging a late 60s-early 70's sanyo solid state table radio will have all the parts I need to fix this up. Too bad that had to happen! Oh well, should be an easy fix when I find the parts. I believe the transformer steps the voltage down to 9 volts as the filter cap is rated 1000uf at 10volts.
Here are the numbers stamped on the trans. R-W7103b

Hmmmm. I wonder why the radio's power switch wasn't properly replaced (see my note below), or at very least the switch replaced with a toggle switch of suitable rating. :dunno:

Jumpering across a defective switch may get the set working again, but it is definitely not the correct way to "repair" such a problem (or *any* television or radio problem, for that matter). In fact, the radio hadn't been repaired at all, just restored to service with a makeshift technique; the correct repair was never made. Further, with the radio constantly on even with the television off, and the main power cord still plugged in, this kind of thing could have been the heck of a fire hazard had the transformer not burned out (or the thermal fuse, if there is one, did not open) when it did--especially if, as you say, the set had remained plugged in "for many years". Seems to me the former owner was not even aware that the set was plugged in and the radio on.

Makeshift repairs are meant to be temporary at best, until the proper components to repair the problem correctly can be obtained and installed. In fact, had this been a CRT HV problem or any other involving high voltages and possible shock or other hazards, such temporary repairs would be considered absolutely unacceptable. Television repair persons in the business simply do not do makeshift repairs.

I seriously doubt that any TV technician jumped the switch in that set to get the radio working; rather, this sounds to me like the kind of thing a DIY type would do. (For that matter, so is replacing the original on-off switch with a toggle, as I mentioned above.) Reputable TV repair shops will not tolerate their technicians doing such haywire, slap-dash jobs as that, of course. If a real TV repair technician, who knew what he/she was doing, had been working on the radio chassis, the person would have done the job properly and replaced the switch or the entire potentiometer/switch assembly.

I always amazed at some of the "professional" repairs I've seen. Even my familiy's VCR from when I was a kid was subject to such repairs beofre I started doing all the electronics repairs in the house. Years later I discovered that the power supply board had been broken one of the times it was repaired and the tech did a very poor job of fixing the damage. One of the regulated voltages ended up unregulated as a result. That would explain what it always seemed different after one particular repair. Add to that a failure to diagnose other basic problems which resulted in lots of call backs on the VCR. It's main problem was a tendency to damage the lower edge of the tape. I later learned that this was the classic symptom of a dried out pinch roller. You'd think this was a shady repair shop, but it was actually the best one in town and the only one that's still in business!

Here is the next find, is a space command 600 zenith console! This is getting better and better. This is the 4th space command tv of this year! This one being by far the best model. This is a 1969 zenith 16Z7C50Z chassis. Whats very rare about this set is that it has the exclusive "ultramatic" UHF/VHF tuner. This is basically a tuning system in which 6 UHF channels can be preset and tuned with the space command remote. Once the tuner is on UHF, it automatically "clicks" one by one through the UHF presets lettered A-F. The half moon tuning dial also moves up or down instantly with the channel change. This is an very complex mechancial arragement. Also to note, the mechanical design of the space command channel selector is nothing like the previous models in which you would simply turn a metal table 1/4 turn. All channels are preset up front and with a special spring loaded plastic screw. Because of the extra torque required to changed through the UHF channels there is a gear reduction. When selecting channels the manual channel knob spins very fast with each channel selection! Its pretty amusing to see the tuner in action and hearing all the noise it makes!
Amazingly the TV is like brand new! It has barely any hours on it, I think Im the first to ever have the back off the set. All original tubes were in there and still had the factory sticker over the HV adjustment.
Keep in mind it didnt work like brand new when I got it. The tuner drive did need some mechanical repair and the space command channel UP function didnt work. An open coil in the relay caused it not to work. Luckily I had a 195-45 relay on hand from a spare space command 500 junk chassis. UHF was not working. The UHF spring forks were weak . They were removed and slightly rebent to gain contact to the UHF rotor shaft for proper grounding. That brought UHF into good order. After a couple tubes replaced and adjustments the TV is like new.
This is zeniths top model, 1969 is the first model year that introduced the ultramatic tuner.

inside view, this is a 16Z7C50Z chassis. more compactrons are used.

Here is the inside of the control panel. Notice the UHF dial scale, as UHF presets A-F are selected the tuning indicator slide and points to the preset channel.

the ultramatic tuner. As you can see its by far more complex than any previous zenith tuner.

Ultramatic was the name of Packard's automatic transmission! That's one sharp set you have there Doug, now if you could fix that early cataract on the tube it would look like brand new!

Anthony

This is todays only find. In my opinion one of the rarest RCA finds in 1960s color television. A 1966 CTC19 model FH522E in the unique "ebony" cabinet which is black vinal. Very sharp set with severe cataracts, however the crt is perfect yet and has most all original tubes even the 6GH8s! And believe it or not, the set still works! Great color and focus. Just need to fix the UHF tuner and cataracts. Clean it up and it will be like new. This is the 3rd set of its type in my collection. My goal is to have every cabinet style of this series as they are my favorite RCA sets of all time.

good picture behind that cataracts!

Chassis will need a good cleaning. Looks like this set sat on a basement floor for many years. Tons of "floor dust' was accumulated under the chassis when I picked it off the basement floor. Best of all, Got it for a good price of $5.00!

Originally posted by drh4683
Its pretty amusing to see the tuner in action and hearing all the noise it makes!


Is the UHF tuner in the Zenith Ultramatic system really that noisy? I know the detented VHF tuner can make a lot of racket when its drum turns, but there's nothing to make much noise in a UHF tuner of that vintage, as they were all continuous tuning back then. The only thing I can come up with to explain all that noise is there must have been a detented drum or some other indexing system used in the Ultramatic to select up to six preset UHF stations (U1-U6).

The same system (without the motor drive) was used in Zenith TVs from about the late '70s or so until the late '80s, IIRC. I had a Zenith portable of early 1980s vintage with the one-knob electronic tuning system, and liked it a lot. Wish I would have held on to it, as it still worked, and well, at the time (unfortunately, it went out for the trash when I moved four years ago).

In fact, thinking about how that system was set up (I saw the service notes for the Ultramatic in a Zenith TV service manual some years ago), it makes sense to me now that the thing would make the same clunk-clunk noise when it was operating as would a detented VHF tuner. Even at that, however, I can't imagine the UHF tuner making as much noise as you say. Still, there's the matter of the UHF knob spinning like mad when the system is changing channels. If the UHF tuner detents through its six channel positions, wouldn't the UHF selector move just as slowly as the drive unit did, and in measured steps?

Your set looks very nice from an appearance standpoint as well. I recently saw a picture of the same set on a web site (tvhistory.tv) which also showed Zenith's other 1969 color TVs. I see Zenith still has two consoles in its lineup today, a 25" and a 27", although the chassis in these sets are probably made by Gold Star and are as unreliable as today's Zenith table models. :(

I hate saying that as, like yourself, I like Zenith TVs and other early entertainment gear from when the company was still based in Chicago, but unfortunately it's the truth, unless the console chassis are of better quality than the smaller sets (which I doubt).

Got this Maggie set yesterday at an estate sale in Atlanta. Murpho, I got this out of your back yard! It appears to have a 24??? CRT. The price for this beast was a whopping $10! It was sitting in the basement. Very dusty and dirty. I cleaned the cabinet up and it looks real nice. Have yet to plug it in.

polaraman

I picked up another set, like I really need more considering that Im moving in 2 weeks. I couldnt pass this one up. It was at the salvation army for 20 bucks like new. '

Its a system 3 with space command 800. If you didnt already know, the space command 800 is an electronic ultrasonic remote. this set is from 81 and works like new. I took advice from captainmoody as to grab a system 3 when I find a nice one. Since it was a space command, I had to take it. Its a 17" set with varactor tuning. Also has the color sentry system. Just as a note, zenith went to the modular chassis design in 1980 (no more solid chassis like the chormacolor II and older). Its a well made set, and the picture is outstanding. Generally, system 3 sets are beyond my interest in collecting, but I really like this one. Anyone with more experienced with this set know how good they are as far as reliablity? CRT's last long? Not sure, never had one until now.

Since I never worked on one of these before, I had a difficult time figuring out how to select between UHF and VHF preset tuning.

When I had channel 44 on, I pulled the little window to see if there was a switch. Once I pulled out the tab, the channel went out and I realized the UHF windows have a tab that push a switch to activate UHF. Anyone have spare numbers for UHF? Id like to find a channel 50,23,20,62 which are the other UHF channels. Im surpised the set didnt already have those, as from the channel numbers already on the set, its set for chicago TV stations.

Its got a bright sharp picture. Hopefully this set will last. These electronic sets seem to be much more trouble prone. (ie, no mechanical on off swich, channel selection etc)

Originally posted by polaraman
Got this Maggie set yesterday at an estate sale in Atlanta.

Polar,

i recently threw away a Maggie like that one. Would have been a nice set, but it had too many issues and wasn't worth dealing with.

Those early 80's system 3 sets had some of the best CRTs I've seen. I have yet to see a bad one and most still look like new. Does that use a 9-180 board, or does it have a large power transformer? The 9-180's had lots of soldering problems.

If you can't find any channel strips, make your own by scanning the digits you need from the strips you have, then make the strip you need in paintshop, or similar. Finally, laser print them on a transparency and cut them out. You might have to laminate the printed side with clear tape if the toner scratches off easily.

Doug, Dwight gave you good advice. Those early System 3's were Zenith's last good sets before everything started to go down-hill for Zenith. As I've stated in earlier posts, I went to a System 3 seminar in early 1981 with my Uncle at Truesdale distributing in Omaha. That was an experiance I'll never forget! Truesdale had a private showroom with different models of Zeniths from early B&W's thru the current model year. Fresh out of the box, un-used with the hang-tags still attached. I often wonder what happened to those sets when they closed. Anyway... Zenith really pushed the superiority of the System 3 over the Chromacolor chassis as both were avalable for awhile. Zenith stressed how easy service was for the tech compared to the Chroma chassis. The name System 3 was chosen because everything to do with the sets chassis was on 3 modules that had plug-in connectors. Also the picture tube had a triple-focus gun. (hence "System 3".) At the time Zenith advertised it heavily with the slogan "2 more than any other CRT!" I think the tube is made out of special "Corning" glass and is pretty heavy. When working ,the picture is superior to even most sets made today. The tubes weren't bad, but have a higher failure rate then the standard delta type Chromacolor tube. I just got a 1979 19" System 3 with remote. It's supposed to be completely cable ready, but I can't get it to tune into anything higher than channel 37, so don't know if that module is bad or what, as it's suppossed to recieve 105 channels. Mine has the "Zoom" feature which is fun. A System 3 set will not have the pin connection problems or the cap problems that are to be found on a Chromacolor 2 chassis. An intersting side note... Cap problems on the Chromacolor 2 chassis about bankrupted Zenith. They had a massive re-call and we were quite busy installing the replacement kits on ALL the sets we sold. Zenith only covered certain model years but ALL Chromacolor 2 chassis had that problem. It's the big cap that is right under the horizontal module. I think the "safe" cap is orange. If you come across a Chroma 2 chassis with a white cap then you have problems. Zenith stood by the repairs tho and a story with us I'll never forget is that we had a customer with a console Chroma 2. That model was NOT supposed to be covered, but the cap blew taking out the picture tube with it (blew the neck right off) Zenith did not hesitate on paying ALL costs! Anyway... I'm being long winded, but thought you might enjoy my experiance with Zenith's during those years and at the beginning of "System 3".

105 channels means 12 VHF + 70UHF + 23 CATV, so stopping at 36 would be normal.

When working ,the picture is superior to even most sets made today.

Yeah, I'd have to agree w/that. I have one also, (In my computer room, so it sees heavy use!) and the color/sharpness amazes me. Sometimes I'll see low-priced China sets at discount stores, and have to laugh when I realize that my 25-year-old-set has a FAR better picture!

However, now you've caused me some concern. My set has been making a rather obnoxious buzzing sound, whether it's on or off. (It's a space command). I often unplug it. A few months back, I removed the back to try and isolate the buzzing sound. Naturally, it shut-up and didn't start making noise until I re-installed the back.

Could this be the capacitor problem? Is my set a deadly time bomb with a nice picture?:eek:

I know that capacitor issue was a serious concern. In 1979 my uncles house caught fire and burned up the entire 2nd floor of his home in St. Charles. It was caused by his zenith chromacolor. I dont know all the details, but I know it was the TVs fault.

Carmine, Is your set a System 3 or Chromacolor 2 ? Zenith's seem to be a tad noisey with high-voltage. They were that way out of the box. If your set is a Chromacolor 2 take the back off and look at the cap. If it's orange the modification was probably done. If it's a System 3 then you don't have that problem to worry about. Either way, could just be the high voltage anode cap getting a little brittle. I have a Chroma and a System 3 and they are both a tad noisey.

Actually, the set doesn't say either. Just "ZENITH Space Command". Can't remember how many modules in the chassis.

It does have an in-line CRT if that helps.

Not a high voltage noise, I'm used to noisy Zenith HV supplys. As I said, this noise occurs whether on or off. Unplugging the set gets rid of the noise immediately.

Jeez, now I just unplugged it because it's making me nervous! Don't need a house fire! Too much vintage stuff in this house now!:(

Carmine, If it's in-line it's most likely a System 3 altho Zenith did make a few models of the Chroma with an in-line tube. Those caps are high-voltage caps and will only fail while the sets running. I'm not sure what your noise could be. How odd. I think I saw your set in an old post and it's a nice looking set. I wouldn't let it worry you.

I used to help a friend at his TV repair shop around 1979-1980
We replaced a lot of those 4 legged caps, I seem to recall a couple sets with the CRT busted from runaway H.V.

Wasn't the System III set the one with the large Mainboard with clip on interconnect cables going to the other modules?
There was a very high failure rate on those when they first came out, we replaced tons of those boards under warranty!

The picture was incredible though, the color was very detailed and accurate as as I recall.

Eric

Yes Eric, That would be a System 3. If the set is still running it most likely has had that module changed. I remember my Uncle had to change out quite a few of those as well. It was the very early System 3's that had the problem, and the replacement module seemed to work okay and didn't fail. I don't know what caused the failure in the original ones. I had a focus tripler changed in a Chromacolor set awhile back, and was able to get the cap set from Moyers (the tripler came from them as well) For all of us with Chromacolor sets we still use, and they are still running it is most likely the cap change was done. I remember all the packs Zenith sent my Uncle, and a sticker was also included to place somewhere on the set to mark it as being repaired. I can't remember the color of the "safe" cap tho. If memory serves me, if you have an orange cap then the modification was done. If you have the white cap, then I would not run the set untill the repair was made. Anyway... Zenith was aggressive in making sure those sets were modified. Those sets still have the best damn picture. So good in fact it's eerie! Pretty remarkable when you consider the Chromacolor 2 is now 30 years old and the System 3 is now going on 25!

The orange caps were the replacements. I have fixed a few of those sets myself.

We used to have a chroma2 when I was a kid (1975 model)...I remember it had a label stating "4 lead capacitor modified"...That must be the orange safety cap.

I thought only the very early models (like 72-74) had the bad cap...did Zenith catch this on the production line sometime once the problem was known?

Also it seems like certain models of Magnavox and maybe other makes used these types of caps and were susceptible to similar problems.

well.... I worked in my Uncle's shop when I was a kid, from the years 1977 thru late 81, and I'm thinking he was doing those recalls in 1979-1980. I don't know how far back Zenith covered. I think I read somewhere that all set makers had problems with high-voltage and deflection on early solid state models, especially the ones that used a tripler and a flyback. Zenith didn't change it's chassis very much during their runs. I think the first Chromacolor was from 1968 or 9 thru 1972. Chromacolor 2 was from 1972 or 3 thru 1980 with the System 3 chassis coming out in 1978. during that overlap Chroma 2's were reduced in price and considered a "lower" end model with the System 3 being quite pricey. I ran my 1976 Chromacolr 2 I got Saturday for 24 hours. I have a minor connection problem I'll have to figure out. It has a slight vertical flicker, but when you rap on the right side of the set (where the controls are) it goes away. It's only done it twice in it's 24 hour run, so I'll probably take the back off and make sure ALL modules are tight. The picture of course is outstanding!!!

I have one of those System 3 Space command models like Doug showed a picture of earlier...mine only has 2 UHF tabs, U1 and U2...so I can only set up 2 UHF channels.

I guess the previous owners did not watch much UHF. I would like to figure out how to fool the set into thinking a UHF tab is in there so I can get more channels. Usually I feed all the TV's in the house from the VCR and a cable amplifier but I actually use the tuner on this system 3 set as it has a remote control.

If it's the UHF tabs that have a hole, you can probably just leave the VHF tabs out to change it to UHF.

I think I have one or two of those repair kits in the bottom of a box somewhere. I bet that was something to see (or mostly hear) when one of those caps went, especially if the crt went with it. Seems like that would be enough to scare away some customers for life.

The fact that the retrace (safety) caps on the Zenith sets caused runaway hv, and sometimes even killed the CRT, Is not a problem unique to CHroma 2's(by the way, those are probably the BEST tv EVER made, with a crt(the delta types) that seemed to last forever, with a picture that would rival, even beat a MODERN SONY).The simple fact is, ANY solid state set can have this runaway High voltage problem, even a modern one. BUT, since'74, most set have had a HEW-inspired "hold down" circuit, to prevent catastrophic failures like this.

Here is what happens: in ANY set(including some of our favorites, like the RCA ctc169) there is a capacitor in the horizontal circuit called the "retrace" or sometimes,"tuning" capacitor. it is usually somethuing like .0162/1600v., or so, but it is ALWAYS a "pf range" cap. this cap helps to "tune" the flybacks operation to the horizontal ckt. if this cap opens, the tuning of the ckt. is upset, and the high voltage can go VERY high(40kv or higher!!) But, the hold down ckt. samples the HV, and if it sees excessive HV, it will shut down the HV/set, at ONCE!! the old chromacolors (and other brands) did NOT have this feature, the idea was the cap would fail, and physically come apart. This opened the ckt. to the horizontal out, as the B+ path ran through the cap, as a safety feature, killing the horizontal voltage , and protecting the set. BUT, too often the cap did NOT physically come apart, and then, the HV would go sky high, kill the flyback, tripler, and sometimes, even the CRT.

I do not think I have replaced one of those caps since'87,when I was 19, and the last one i did, it DID physically come apart, sparing the set. I replaced it with an "ORANGE DROP", the color of the new one, and it was fixed ,IIRC.

Please explain how the runaway HV kills the CRT?

bgadow, I would think it would!!!!!! I can still remember those customers we had where the cap exploded and it took the tube. They were OLD, and I had a mental image of them in their rockers when that thing went, and them being so startled that they knocked those LAZY-BOYS over and couldn't get up......

The HV arcs through the glass to the yoke windings...there is apparently enough heat generated then to start melting the glass and the neck of the CRT cracks off.

Now, I wonder why there is that much excessive reserve capacity of the circuit to generate HV over 50 KV...in a tube type set, even if the plate cap of the regulator tube comes off, the HV will not go that high.

That sounds like fun.

I've got a 36" RCA that I garbage picked. I think the CRT is bad (tension on the shadow mask), but it still kinda functions.

I've got a huge backyard.

I'm thinking, :scratch2: set up this type of fault, connect it with a LONG extension cord, power up with the remote...

:thmbsp:


Happy 4th of July!!! :yikes:

Its been rought the past few weeks, estate sales were not too good, and I was moving into a new home. Just went to a few estates again today and found a nice little 1973 Admiral 12" portable color set, hybrid of course. Nice low hour set. Works nice too. Thankfully, the original owner put a swich on the power cord to shut the set off (instant on) which saved its life, as the picture is still bright yet. I think im the first to take the back off, all orignal tubes and all the tubes were still caulked to the sockets.

Something strange about this set, I got the date of this set from the 3.58 crystal, which normally always have a date code. The original admiral crt however is stamped "77-13". The tubes are dated N77-13 as well? Is there any way a tube set like this can be from 1977? I always thought the portacolor was the only tube set at that time?

Another strange note, on the lower right corner of the speaker grill says "K SOLID STATE 880" It looks original, as the tag is a greenish blue like the speaker grille. What exactly do they mean by this? Its a hybrid set? The only total solid state is the IF and TUNER? Im thinking that if this set could be from 1977, and since it had instant on, the "solid state" was a marketing thing to sell it, since it would turn on as quick as a solid state set? You would assume not many people would be interested in a non solid state set in 77, so that had to put it on there to sell the thing? Just a thought.

Well, my Philco roundie hybrid has a "SS" on the front. I would assume that to mean solid state, but mine is like yours... only about 9 transistors, and all the rest are tubes.

Nice looking set btw! Really clean!

Well they say SS, not 100% SS don't they? :D
Any set that has a CRT can only be about 99.0% SS anyway.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by drh4683
Something strange about this set, I got the date of this set from the 3.58 crystal, which normally always have a date code. The original admiral crt however is stamped "77-13". The tubes are dated N77-13 as well? Is there any way a tube set like this can be from 1977? I always thought the portacolor was the only tube set at that time?

Hmm... Despite the date codes, I don't think that Admiral could have been made in 1977. For one thing, it looks like it has a continuous UHF tuner. Those weren't allowed after 1975. For another thing, all of the TVs pictured in my Admiral 1977/78 sales binder have the newer-style Admiral logo, not the older one present on that particular set. It also seems somewhat odd that it would have "instant on" if it was made in 1977; that "feature" pretty much went out of style by the mid 70's. Also, that number-in-a-circle thing in the corner of the picuture tube bezel to indicate the screen size-- I wonder if Admiral was still doing that in 1977.

Here's a couple of things you might check-- does the label / company identifier on the back (or on the picture tube) make any reference to Rockwell International? Rockwell bought Admiral in 1974. Also, don't forget to take a look at the inside of the back cover or other plastic parts and see if there was a date code mark inset in the mould.

Could it be that the date code on the pix tube is actually 71-13 or 72-13, but just marked badly..? Dunno what to say about the crystal though.

Oh, and I'm sure you knew this, but that "SS K" logo is the old K-Mart (S.

Originally posted by drh4683
Something strange about this set, I got the date of this set from the 3.58 crystal, which normally always have a date code. The original admiral crt however is stamped "77-13". The tubes are dated N77-13 as well? Is there any way a tube set like this can be from 1977? I always thought the portacolor was the only tube set at that time?

Hmm... Despite the date codes, I don't think that Admiral could have been made in 1977. For one thing, it looks like it has a continuous UHF tuner. Those weren't allowed after 1975. For another thing, all of the TVs pictured in my Admiral 1977/78 sales binder have the newer-style Admiral logo, not the older one present on that particular set. It also seems somewhat odd that it would have "instant on" if it was made in 1977; that "feature" pretty much went out of style by the mid 70's. Also, that number-in-a-circle thing in the corner of the picuture tube bezel to indicate the screen size-- I wonder if Admiral was still doing that in 1977.

Here's a couple of things you might check-- does the label / company identifier on the back (or on the picture tube) make any reference to Rockwell International? Rockwell bought Admiral in 1974. Also, don't forget to take a look at the inside of the back cover or other plastic parts and see if there was a date code mark inset in the mould.

Could it be that the date code on the pix tube is actually 71-13 or 72-13, but just marked badly..? Dunno what to say about the crystal though.

Oh, and I'm sure you knew this, but that "SS K" mark is the old K-Mart (S.S. Kresge stores) logo; Admiral used to make specially-marked TV sets for K-Mart.

that "SS K" mark is the old K-Mart (S.S. Kresge stores) logo; Admiral used to make specially-marked TV sets for K-Mart.

Damn, I knew that logo was familar! Should have known since I worked for K-mart 2-years during high school. In that case, "ss" stands for Sabastain S. Kresge (fore-runner and co-exsisting with K-mart).

Sometimes date-codes count weeks/days of the year rather than the traditional month/day/year. "77" could mean the 77th day of 1973.

Your set looks like the little brother to the set Captainmoody and Classiscradios dug out of the barn in the "Found some more sets" thread!
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21267






Originally posted by drh4683
Its been rought the past few weeks, estate sales were not too good, and I was moving into a new home. Just went to a few estates again today and found a nice little 1973 Admiral 12" portable color set

Its funny that you show a picture of that set eric. I was just talking to captian asking what kind of shape that set was in (before I found this one). Not sure if he was going back up to pick that set up. Id like to have it as a companion to the little one.

I completely forgot about the Kmart connection. I always remembered "S.S. Kresge" on the back of the kmart electronics, especially the radios. Other than this logo up front, the set has nothing about kmart or ss kresge anywhere. All the labels and tags are still on the set, both back and bottom.

Also, marty, I looked inside the set and DID NOT notice any indications of Rockwell International. The 3.58 is dated 9-73, and being continuous UHF, Im going to stick with the 1973 date. It makes more sense, and the TV styling looks more like its from that time.

I have a picture of the logo. Im still confused about the "solid state" part? Here is the only things that uses tubes:
Color difference amp, Vert. Osc+out, Horiz Osc, Horiz out, Sync AGC, Damper, HV rect.
Everything else is solid state. I think its safe to say is certianly a Kmart set. I made the connection to that design just to the left of the "K", apparently its two letter "S" interlaced with each other.

That looks like a pretty well built set. I had a 19" Admiral that couldn't have been more than a year or so newer, was a hybrid, but it was made in Taiwan. I have some service manuals for some Kmart sets, and they made no effort to hide the true identity in the manuals, but the co-branding is a little odd. I guess Admiral was kinda desperate for sales at that time.

The Admiral portable must have some kind of an inline CRT...the convergence controls look simplified from the usual for delta-gun crt's.

Inline CRT? That sorta reinforces my first thought that this set kinda resembled a Portacolor. The SSK nameplate may be a subliminal attempt to gain some prestige as there was a very fancy schmancy Mercedes Benz model with that same name back in the 30's.

Anthony

PortaColor!

Found this late model pc at the salvation army in Oak Park yesterday. The set was sitting on a console with a bunch of other newer sets and this was the only one playing! I was blown away, for a portacolor, this is got to be the best picture Ive ever seen! The focus and color is outstanding. Very nice set to watch by todays standards!
It cost me $15. Resale shops dont bargain around here, its either pay it or get out. Took the back off and blew the dust out etc. All original GE tubes. The sticker on the back of the set is indicates the mfg. date of "November 1975". TV is like new inside and out. I think the biggest plus is that the antennas arnt broken off! Most little portables got abused pretty bad. Around here, if you are lucky enough to find a portacolor, its either mint or totally destroyed (missing knobs, busted cabinet etc.)

chassis shot:

Clean find! Hey wait a minute here... aren't you trying to clear out some sets???

I am watching a white cased version of that very TV as I write this. I like these little sets.

It looks like it has the high focus voltage CRT. I've never persnally seen one. Does it have shaerper focus than the earlier low focus voltage portacolor CRTs? Does it have a slot mask CRT?

I have a 1976 version of that TV. Almost the same except with slightly different colors on the front. All original tubes, and after tweaking all the controls, it get excellent picture quality, sharp focus. Just depending on the source I have to adjust the color intensity due to lack of automatic chroma gain.

Picked this up today from an estate in North Riverside, IL (8048 country club Ln). Spotted it durring estate sales saterday. This was well cared for. Had the manuals and papers in the record compartment. The home was built in 1962, so was this. Moto date stamp of "6 M 62". The wall in the basment was specially made to fit this unit into, so it never got a ding or dent. Its a very high quality drexel cabinet.
Notice the huge 16" speaker in the middle. thats a center channel speaker. Has 2 8" speakers for L+R channels and small tweeters. The sound will blow you away! Full bass shakes the whole house! Has "vibrasonic" which is a variable reverb control. Also has FM stereo (with the seperate multiplex chassis) Best part about this unit is, its all american componetns and tubes. Moto even used 6V6GT outputs (6 of them) (2 for L+R and center channels). and one for the center channel. No foreign tube types in this set! (Im rather tired of finding the typical EL84 euro type tubes in american consoles.)
I though my zenith console was best sounding. This moto is by far the best sounding console Ive ever heard! The reverb really adds a great touch to any music!

picture 2

tuner pic. AM and FM tuning is controled by center knob for each dial. Flywheel type dial tuners. Has EM84 magic eye tube and is still bright! All original tubes are within this set!

phonograph

inside shot. That silver rectangular box on the far left side is the reverb springs. Next to that is the FM multiplex chassis. (the pic flash makes the 3DG4 look like it went to air)

back. Larges ventalation holes ive ever seen.

Inline CRT? That sorta reinforces my first thought that this set kinda resembled a Portacolor. The SSK nameplate may be a subliminal attempt to gain some prestige as there was a very fancy schmancy Mercedes Benz model with that same name back in the 30's.

Anthony

That is a gen-u-whine KMart logo and was so when they came to our area in the middle 70's. S.S Kresge Corp until the higher ups decided to change it to KMart. The old man's picture is buried in the back of the store next to the restrooms, if that says something to ya, whereas Wal-Mart is so owner-centric that they even named the dog food after his ol' hunting dog, Ol' Roy.

back. Larges ventalation holes ive ever seen.

Doug, that is so sweet! I can't think of too many words right now. Stunned.

Doug,

That Motorola is quite impressive looking! They weren't beatin around the bush when they built that thing! Big 16" center channel and six 6V6's... that baby is ready to rock!

Does it have a set of AUX/TAPE inputs so you can connect a CD player? I've got a CD player plugged into my B/W Curtis Mathes entertainment center, and the sound is extremely impressive coming out those 12" speakers using only two 6BQ5's. I would think that your Motor's sound probably kicks some serious ass!

It does have a tape/aux input! RCA Jacks. It would be nice if more consoles had that. My other consoles, I would need to transmit a tape deck on FM so I could hear it!
This thing really blasts loud. The manuals says this unit is 51 wpc. Im not big into cranking up the sound. I think all the talk about power output and watts is a bunch of bs. Too many people get in arguments over "my system has more power" crap. Especially these kids today with these little pos modified foriegn cars w/ overkill sound systems that you can hear from 2 miles away. Like a 500hp engine in your car, you dont need it but it makes you feel good to know its there, and you can brag about it to impress everyone. My saba 2000 console is only 10 wpc and that is one impressive sounding unit. Ive put a signal test to it, and it can produce a clean 25hz upto the end of my hearing range which is about 17khz. As long as the unit has a broad frequency coverage, it sounds great to me.

Doug, it's all well and good that you've shown us pics of the record changer, chassis and back panel of the Motorola console; however, how about a picture of the control panel of this beast? Is this simply a radio/phono system or was/is there a TV in there? If so, I didn't see a CRT anywhere. The CRTs in 1950s-'60s-vintage TVs, with their massive, thick and in many cases long necks, were difficult or impossible to ignore.

Speaking of long-necked CRTs, I hate to think how long the necks must have been on early large-screen tubes, such as I've seen on 1950s-vintage DuMonts and other sets. Correct me if I'm wrong or mistaken, but I read somewhere (I think it may have been here in one of the AK television forums) that the larger the TV screen is, the longer the neck of the CRT will be.

Ooops. I just remembered that oscilloscope CRTs, most of which had screens no larger than five inches, also had long necks which extended almost to the back of the instrument's cabinet (this would explain why oscilloscope cabinets are very deep as a rule--at least the scopes I've seen have been like that). I think this would effectively prove my previous statement false (the larger a CRT screen is, the longer will be the neck).

One very large-screen direct-view set that comes to mind as I write this is a 30" DuMont from either the late forties or early fifties, which I once saw here on AK in the b&w TV forum. Man, that tube must have had a neck at least a foot long! :yikes: The cabinet must have (would have had to be) deep as all get out to accomodate that long CRT neck, if in fact the neck were anywhere near a foot in length. Many sets with 23" tubes also had very deep cabinets, but then again the depth was mostly taken up (I think) by the CRT neck. Can't recall offhand how long a 23" CRT neck is, but I would guess it's a good seven or eight inches.

The 1970s (again I think) saw the introduction of the new thin-neck large-screen CRTs, in which the necks were much shorter than older tubes. One drawback of the newer tubes was that CRT brighteners could not be used with them, as the new tubes had flimsy plastic button bases about the size of....well, a large button. Were there any brighteners made specifically for use with these new button-base CRTs? For that matter, is it possible or practical to use a brightener on a modern CRT? If so, this could save a lot of modern RCA, Zenith, et al. sets from the landfill when their CRTs go bad within a couple years (as is all too common with Zenith-branded GoldStar [and current-production LG-branded] TVs).

If one used an isolation brightener, I would think this could isolate the heater from the cathode and restore the tube, as was common with monochrome CRTs. If this is possible, why don't more TV shops use them, rather than condemning the entire set once the CRT shorts? What exactly happens to the circuitry of these sets, when the CRT develops a HK short, that causes so much damage? I've read here that the video amplifier stages are destroyed when the tube shorts, also the power supply is damaged or destroyed, not to mention other parts of the set. Whatever, the damage must be fairly extensive, as most GS-built "Zeniths" with shorted CRTs wind up in the trash, more often than not. :(

Were there any brighteners made specifically for use with these new button-base CRTs? For that matter, is it possible or practical to use a brightener on a modern CRT? If so, this could save a lot of modern RCA, Zenith, et al. sets from the landfill when their CRTs go bad within a couple years

Many such sets used a few turns of wire around the flyback transformer core to get energy to run the heater. I've added an extra turn to such to create higher voltage to brighten a weak CRT.

Though I haven't had to try it, an "isolation" transformer that would run at horizontal deflection frequencies should be a toroid (of the sort found in SMPS (switching power supplies) with something like 4 times more turns than that used on the flyback for the heater, for the primary, and about the same or
more for the secondary. Add more turns if the horizontal circuits get unhappy.
Locate it near the CRT but away from the video signal lines.

The filament winding for CRT works very well on the flyback. Just wrap several turns of insulated wire around the core...2 or 3 seems to usually be right. You may not get an accurate AC voltage reading on a meter as it is high frequency AC...but you can usually judge and see if the color of the lit filament appears good.

I have made a CRT rejuvination setup with a boosted-voltage winding (about 8-volts) on the flyback and a DPDT switch to switch between the original fil winding and the booster winding. You can sometimes get a good amount of rejuvination by leaving the switch on the boost position and then returning it to normal after a few minutes.

You can even do the flyback heater winding for increased heater voltages on the old solid state sets like the CTC-68. Hasn't hurt it a bit, although there is slighly decreased width when the auxiliary heater winding is on. Would not recommend using it on tube type sets as their flyback system doesn't seem to have much reserve power capacity and the auxiliary winding may cause an overload.

I used the trick of adding a few turns of wire around the flyback core just last week on a 27 Sony with a blue H-K short. It's best to use a tru RMS volt meter and fine tune the voltage with a series resistor. If you don't have one, you can measure the heater voltage with a regular meter before you modify anything and adjust the resistor on the new winding so it reads the same as the orignal winding. By the time a H-K short has developed, it might not hurt to boost the heaters a little anyway.

I've always wondered why all modern TVs all run the CRT heaters at ground potential. It wasn't uncommon for older TVs to bias the heaters close to the cathode voltage so there's less stress on the heater to cathode insulation.

Got this set in Downers Grove for $5.00. TV was in the living room. The set still works with a bright picture, original CRT! In pretty nice shape too.

Another find in the same weekend! This is from Hillside, IL. Marked $50.00. Got it at half price for $25 as the sale was almost over. This is a 58 motorola, drexel cabinet. This set and the moto stereo console I found a few weeks ago are a perfect matched set! This set was still in the living room too! Plugged in and working great still after all these years! Opened it up, and all original, crt and tubes. Hard to believe these sets survive all these years with slight use, considering they were in the living room of the homes!

This set is as good as the day it left the show room. Not a mark anywhere.

Man, Doug! Both of those sets are beauties! The cabinets are awesome! It's amazing that someone was able to keep the kids fingers off them for all those years! :yes:

That Moto is sweet! you are finding some really nice stuff :thmbsp:

Question: Is that an RCA B&W portable sitting next to the Motorola?
Looks very similar to one I had in the early 70's except the knobs are in different positions.


Eric

I have the same Motorola set. Mine works but needs a diode. It is also in equally as good shape as yours. Been thinking of digging it out and working on it.

polaraman

Doug,

I find it even more amazing that your '56 Admiral TV still has its original CRT, and the tube still makes a nice bright picture. Most sets I've seen of that vintage have had the tube replaced at least once over the lifetime of the set, though some folks try to get by with using a brightener on a weak tube just to get every bit of life they possibly can out of the cathode. Replacing the CRT in these cases is reserved as an absolute last resort. I've read of people who will use a TV with a picture so dim they had to watch it in the dark, rather than replace the CRT. I understand this happens (or used to, before the era of throwaway TVs) quite a bit more with color CRTs than their b&w counterparts, because of the sheer expense of replacing a color tube.

BTW, your Moto looks nice too. Almost incredible shape for an older set. It's one of the few (very few) '60s-vintage console TVs I've seen that has sliding doors which can cover the entire set when it's not in use. This cabinet design was very popular in the '50s, but few manufacturers except Zenith were still putting their high-end sets in such fancy cabinets by the '70s or thereabouts (though I did see a very nice Zenith three-way SC console, 1970s vintage, on ebay recently).

By the '70s, portable TVs were becoming popular, but almost none of them (then as now) were in any sort of metal cabinet. (I've seen only three metal-cabinet TVs--a 1955 Emerson 17" portable, a 1965 RCA Victor transformer-powered portable and a 1959 Zenith 19" portable--since I've been fooling around in this hobby.)

The black plastic "cube" design of most televisions coming from Korea today got its start about thirty or 35 years ago, and will likely be with us for quite a while yet, so I'd hang on to both the Admiral and the Moto consoles--they are becoming very scarce except at estate sales, etc. and are very difficult to find new, as only one manufacturer (Zenith) still makes sets housed in console cabinets. However, the only thing "Zenith" about those consoles is the lightning-bolt Z at the base of the CRT mask and maybe on the remote; the chassis is all Gold Star. It wouldn't surprise me, either, if the decorative pieces at the base of the cabinet are just brass-colored plastic rather than real brass. (The cabinets probably aren't real wood anymore, either--probably just particle board with a photo-finish or other fake veneer over them, not unlike the "wood grain" used on cabinets of Zenith radios of 1930s vintage.)

RCA did have one 25" console in its product line a few years ago, but it has probably been discontinued by now, as all I see on Thomson's website these days are CRT-based table models and LCD/plasma widescreen sets.

Just wait, however, as it may not be too much longer before both companies abandon CRT-based televisions altogether. As the deadline for the analog-digital conversion comes closer (it will be here before we know it), I think the production of tube TVs will slow down, by degrees, until it's to the place where very few if any of this type of sets are being produced anymore.

Jeff, I guess some folks just watched a whole bunch more tv than others. Last spring I bought 2 consoles from a gentleman who bought them new. One is a Silvertone from about '53, the crt is a GE with a brightener; the other is a '60 Motorola with a weak crt. From talking to him he replaced the Moto with a color set sometime in the 60s. By my figuring he was going through a picture tube about every 3-4 years. Meanwhile, there are still a number of late 40s sets that appear to be on their original tube.

Jeff, I guess some folks just watched a whole bunch more tv than others.

By this logic, my sets may last forever!