So what exactly happens when a major corporation ceases manufacturing of CRT's, etc. . For example, Zenith, what happened to all those tubes, all them chassis' ? Is it possible for someone (a collector, for instance) to purchase a lot of items from a defunct manufacturer? These things are of course NLA, and could proove invaluable in the future to us collectors. Any insight ?

Don't know about Zenith, but when GE quit making sets in Portsmouth VA, they auctioned off the chassis, parts, and even the engineering samples. My Dad (a TV tech/dealer) got most of the parts and engineering stuff. Some rare finds - tubes straight from the factory with big labels on them proclaiming "Not UL type certified - not for finished products" and even some wierd bonded-yoke CRTs that were probably early engineering for the AA/AB/AC chassis, but were never used in production. Flybacks? Dad got 1300 of one type! Sold the lot to the local GE distributor and to PTS Electronics in Bloomington, IN. Resistors, he still has, and as soon as I can help him dig them out, they'll be mine:D - something like 80,000 composition and film types. He also got about 5,000 11" long CRT/Aquadag ground wires - who needs them??:boring:

I could go on and on, but the point is, I think most is sold at auction, usually to big clearinghouses. When Zenith got out of Mexico, a company in western Florida bought out all of their parts and liquidated them on eBay - I have several SMD/SMT reels of resisistors with Zenith labels and part numbers on them. The company also liquidated AT&T - got a lot of their stuff too.

Cheers

My guess would be that there would be plenty of leftover parts but not many leftover chassis or crts. Unless a company suddenly went bankrupt they would want to finish whatever they were building. These days with "just-in-time" delivery there isn't so much need for vast stockpiles of parts. There would be warehouses full of old stock merchandise, though. I'd guess that a small number of every trim piece, maybe even spare cabinets, would be kept in stock. Unless they threw them away to make room, who knows how long they would be saved?

I like hearing from Findm about the GE plant-I would like to know more about its history. I've owned a lot of sets that came from Portsmouth.

Normally all of the leftover parts are trashed-period. Unless someone expresses interest or engineers take some home, it is all lost. Usually there is so much that it is overwhelming and cleared out to the dempster trough. Most of the time they will not let you have it. Some former engineers from RCA in Indianapolis took home what they wanted to save like tens of thousands of resistors etc and sold it at the local hamfests. I have done my part in saving some of it.

I have seen many assembly lines shut down with product almost finished to the beginning of assembly totally trashed. When an assembly line is shut down, it is shut down regardless of what is on it. If money runs out on a project, it is shut down regardless.

When RCA shut down its' broadcast television camera facility in Camden, all remaining cameras from start to almost finished were trashed and axes were used to destroy much of it before it was disposed of in dempster troughs. That is the way it is. When a line is shut down, too bad!

what the F????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???


why would you TRASH that stuff?!!!

I am also interested in more info about the Portsmouth GE plant-closing. I think its amazing we have someone posting here who has had access to mass amounts of collectible stuff. I have a few sets built there also.

Sure does suck that this kinda stuff gets axed; its like the end of an era. This stuff isn't being built anymore!!! Don't they get it?

Stuff is often trashed because it has been written off for tax purposes and has to be trashed for legal reasons. It's worth more to the company to send it to landfill than it is to sell it off or donate it. Some places also trash any returns to prevent them being scavenged and then returned for credit. It's company policy.

Many years ago I emptied a large walk in dumpster at a Philips distribution center over the course of a weekend. It was literally full of test equipment, computer gear, components and cable. I was never approached or told to leave. The next weekend the dumpster had it's own security guard and everything in it has been smashed.

:( :( :( :(

I have seen many assembly lines shut down with product almost finished to the beginning of assembly totally trashed. When an assembly line is shut down, it is shut down regardless of what is on it. If money runs out on a project, it is shut down regardless.



Realize that the street price for a TV set from RCA about 25 years ago was about 4 times what it cost RCA to manufacture it and get it to the shipping dock of the factory building. So, if it sold for $200, it cost about $50 to make it. So the losses involved with just trashing whatever was still on the factory line really isn't that much... I used to work at RCA's old Smirnoff R&D lab, before GE bought RCA and raped and pillaged it...

all of you are making me cry

...again another reason that these companies cease to exist.
Think they do this in China?

I think its amazing we have someone posting here who has had access to mass amounts of collectible stuff.

Oddly, I got most of my parts through closed GE, RCA, and Zenith Distributors, E-Bay, and I'll soon be getting my Dad's stuff too. Several AK members have already benefited from my parts stash.

I was in my early twenties when Portsmouth shut down - me recollections are few, as I was more interested in other things (ladies) and my budding career in the US Navy.

The Stuff my Dad got through the GE plant closing was mostly engineering spares - they ran the lines and produced all the sets they could before shuttering the plant and going to Asia. The engineering effort at Portsmouth seems to have stopped with their PM chassis. The few engineering sample sets Dad got were all metal cabinet (FCC cert?) PC or PM chassis, heavily modified with about a bazillion RCA jacks on a back panel that allowed monitoring of various test points within the set. GE was big on VIR - Dad got a VIR test bed monitor (no tuner) that had three or four switchable circuit configurations. We never did figure out what each position was supposed to do, and we didn't get any documentation either, so it was all WAG'in to figure some of it out. The VIR monitor was a small 13 inch modified AB/AC chassis monitor, probably used for field testing. Oddly, no projection set stuff at all - and GE had produced a Portsmouth assembled rear projection set around 1981.

Keep in mind that GE had ceased all tube/hybrid set production well before they closed the plant, and all of the "stuff" Dad got was for later model (1980+) sets - modular color, some AA/AB/AC chassis stuff, some EC chassis stuff, Tons of PC and PM chassis stuff and lots of loose parts - one box of loose disc capacitors weighed in at over 50 pounds - and Dad still hasn't sorted all the smaller caps. Aside from the previously-mentioned resistors, flybacks, and caps, the only other high quantity item was that little horizontal output module (the part number escapes my memory) with the wirewound width control and Horizontal output transistor on it - he got about 2 or 3 hundred of those on cardboard skids. What he didn't use or sell to other dealers, he scrapped for the output transistor (ECG165's - they were running about 5 bucks a piece in the late 80's) and that wirewound pot.

I made an earlier suggestion in the Television Swap Board that we ought to have a resource "sticky" - and let everyone here post what they have available - parts, manuals, you name it. Several AK'ers listed all of the flybacks they had available - that is a prime example of a good start! :thmbsp:

As for me, I have about 3500 RCA parts, 600 GE parts (yes, some Portacolor parts too!), 500 or so Zenith parts. I also have TONS of manuals in PDF and Microfiche format - Hitachi (TV/PTV/VCR) and LG/Zenith (CRT/LCD/Plasma TV) in PDF, Samsung, Sanyo, RCA, Sears (thanks Bryan!!) and Zenith in Microfiche. I also have access to a database of repair tips. Any manuals I have are always free to AK members!! :yes:


Sad stuff when a US plant closes, but it was a geek's heaven for me tinkering with all of that stuff!

Cheers,

I used to work at RCA's old Smirnoff R&D lab, before GE bought RCA and raped and pillaged it...

.....shouldn't that be Sarnoff? Freudian slip?:scratch2:

Cheers

I would like to be able to print some of my microfiche manuals, but I do not have the hardware to do it. I still like the old paper manuals.

Bill R

I would like to be able to print some of my microfiche manuals, but I do not have the hardware to do it. I still like the old paper manuals.

Bill R

Simple - check with any of the university/college libraries - they often have microfiche reader/printers available for use. I've had luck here, but it was several years ago. Fedex/Kinkos locations often will do the same, but they won't reproduce "copyrighted material" - your mileage may vary with that, depending on the staff at the location. Someone mentioned to me that architect supply houses might be able to point you in the right direction too.

Print only the pages you'll need - no one ever needs the specifications or packing instructions, for example. Also, post here and see if anyone has it in Paper or PDF. I have some manuals on paper and microfiche - go figure....

Whatever you do, don't buy a Canon PC60/70 series microfiche reader/printer. We had those in the cal labs in the Navy and they were a POS.

So call Jackson State and see if they can help...

Cheers,

I saw a RCA Console TV behind an electroncs stoere which had a cracked CRT :tears: a week before it was in perfect condition.. :tears:
I hate seeing things that could have been put to good use destroyed..

I saw a RCA Console TV behind an electroncs stoere which had a cracked CRT :tears: a week before it was in perfect condition.. :tears:
I hate seeing things that could have been put to good use destroyed..

There's a world of people that will destroy something before they give it to someone that could use it. I've offered people $5 to $10 for broken TV's only to insult them and have them tell me "I'll shoot the screen out and throw it in the dump before I'll take that - I paid $500 for that set when it was new and I'm not giving it away." I had a guy bring me a truckload of TV's that were trashed by a repair shop. Every one of them had busted CRT's. As far as I could tell; most of the TV's looked to have been easily repairable had they not busted the tube. I was lucky enough to eventually find tubes to fit in a couple of the TV's and they were indeed easy fixes. I never will forget the tube type Magnavox color console I saw on the street around the corner from my home when I was a teenager. My mother made me knock on the door to ask if it was OK if I could have the TV. When the woman (she was about 90) found out it could be of use to me; she then wanted big $$. When I offered her $5 (IIRC); she was insulted and said she'd just give the set to her son. I should have went back over there about 10 PM and got it because I bet it was still there. I've never knocked on anyone's door since then. If it's out on the curb; I grab it. If anyone does not like it, TUFF! They shouldn't have put it on the trash pile.

Strangely, here in Italy, i have yet to find someone who won't let me get his scrapped TVs or stereos... even when we had a flood and i drove around to scavenge in the piles of damaged stuff thrown out of flooded homes...

Actually, some people are quite happy to give their useless stuff away to someone who could use it... it's not uncommon to see "working" written on the screen of abandoned TVs...

i have once been approached by the owner while picking up a Philips color TV on the curb... he told me how nice and expensive it was when he bought it in 1973, he then got in his garage and came back with a working early 70s Orion 8 track receiver complete with speakers and a bag of 8 track tapes... and of course, the Philips' remote and user's manual...

If it's out on the curb; I grab it. If anyone does not like it, TUFF! They shouldn't have put it on the trash pile.

Same here! Ironically, one of my best finds was a GE Portacolor that I didn't stop to grab - another TV on the opposite street corner caught my eye, but it was a piece of junk. Walking back to my vehicle, I spotted a reflection off the antenna rods of what turned out to be a 1967 Portacolor. The set works great - never did anything to it that required taking the back off!

Keep looking - and be prepared for some disppointments along the way. I've taken sets that were offered as "really old" only to find out they were "quite new" - but if you turn even one down, any future sets won't be offered up.

Open dialog with the TV shops in the area - I know first hand that some will gladly give the classic stuff away to make room. So what if it doesn't work or have all the knobs - that's what this forum and others are about - filling in the puzzle pieces.

Cheers,

Keep looking - and be prepared for some disppointments along the way. I've taken sets that were offered as "really old" only to find out they were "quite new" - but if you turn even one down, any future sets won't be offered up.

Open dialog with the TV shops in the area - I know first hand that some will gladly give the classic stuff away to make room. So what if it doesn't work or have all the knobs - that's what this forum and others are about - filling in the puzzle pieces.

Cheers,

I agree 100%. Between one local TV shop and the "free pickup of non working TV's ad" I placed in the classifieds; I have gotten about 20 TV's and still have more to go get. The only real old set I got was the '68 Magnavox I mentioned in another thread. I did get two Sony KV15?? (can't remember the model # right now) and a beat up Sony KV1946R. The rest were BPC and SPC modern sets. But; one has to take the bitter with the sweet. Someone that gave me a newer set may come up with a vintage TV somewhere and had I not picked up their newer junk; they probably would never call me again. The two 15" Sony sets are '81 models and are not remote. They have the 14 postition varactor tuner. I got them from the same guy that gave me the Maggie and both of them still work. I'll start a thread about those two sets when I get some pictures.

For those looking for vintage stuff: Don't give up! Place ad's in the paper and get the word out to everyone you know. And, never go by what someone tells you on the phone. Check out everything! Yes, you will get more junk that really is garbage; but, the few vintage things you find will make up for it. If the modern sets you get are fixable; you can sell them for a few $$ to fuel your vintage collecting. Let's face it. The stuff we collect is not going to sprout legs and come to us. We are going to have to hit the pavement and find it.

Around here, the trash pile is the best spot to find TV's, vintage or not, and even hifi vintage stereo stuff. Most of it (probably 90% of it) works well as found. The ones that are broken need silly repairs, people are foolish. Come to think of it, though, I haven;t had a trash-tv find in a while. Just the Sony kv1215 at the estate sale. Speakers and amps, I find alot, but not tv's anymore. Last week I went to a thrift and the guy had a 90s toshiba 20inch marked at 20 bucks. I inquired and he claims to have many old tv;s in storage. I am going to give him a call....:scratch2:

We should all be out knocking on the doors of our local tv shops. Few that I've talked to didn't have something they wanted to get rid of-often it was test equipment or parts, things which are just as nice to have as old sets. It's easy to find old Sams and service manuals this way. One fellow said he didn't have anything at all from the tube era-I talked to him for awhile and came to find out that his attic was full of old sets, tubes, parts, etc. You may have to ask more than once. Don't let folks throw good stuff out. One repairman had a full set of Sams auto radio manuals, beginning with #1 up until sometime in the 1990s. He finally tossed the whole pile in the trash because nobody would take them. I know that I don't look as hard as I should, but I am pretty maxed out on space. I have run some ads recently on craigslist & freecycle, and sometimes you get a lead.

I'll add that the stuff I get from the TV shop is mostly less than 10 years old. Sometimes, there will be a beat up console from the late '80's. I think we have 3 "shops" left; but, none of them have been in business long enough to have any vintage stuff. All the old "tube era" shops are long gone around here. According to the guy that owns the shop I get stuff from; people rarely bring anything over a few years old in to be repaired. Even then, they will not approve an estimate over $50 or $60. I think the last tube TV I got from a shop was somewhere around '95. It was one of those old 23" metal cabinet RCA color Mural TV's with all the jacks on the back. It was sitting on their trash pile. Most shops around here stopped taking in tube TV's sometime in the mid to late '80's. In fact, most TV technicians (even the older ones) get very grumpy at the mention of a tube TV.

In fact, most TV technicians (even the older ones) get very grumpy at the mention of a tube TV.

Why is that? I've noticed the same thing.

Why is that? I've noticed the same thing.

I'll go into a little more detail here. I had one technician tell me years ago "I had to work on that junk when it was new. Now, I've learned the new technology and it's easier to work on and I'm not wasting my time with that old junk." I think they got spoiled to single PC board designs and they hated to have to work on an old "rat bed" chassis that often had to be removed from the cabinet and connected to a test tube for servicing.

Another reason I think technicians stopped working on tube sets is because they've been "bitten" too many times. Most customers expect a warranty on their repaired set. You could fix the vertical section this week and the audio could go out next week. Even though the problem is in a different area; the customer still expects it to be fixed for free. I think technician's realized that there was more of a chance of a 30 year old set coming back on them in a week than a 3 year old set coming back. One technician friend would not take in any older TV (tube or SS) because of the warranty expectations from the customer and because he's often got "stuck" with an old TV that he couldn't get his $$ out of. The few he did fix were done "AS-IS." He also thought that if you got 20 or 30 years out of a set; then, it had long paid for itself and it was time for a new TV anyway.

Of course, most of the newer "technicians" don't even know what a vacuum tube is and wouldn't know what to do if they had to fix a tube set.

On the other hand, I had a good friend that closed his shop in the early '70's because he saw the end of the tube era coming and he didn't want to learn solid state technology. By the time I met him in the early '90's, he was collecting and repairing tube radios. He's now passed on; but, he taught me alot of what I know about tube radio repair.

Another reason I think technicians stopped working on tube sets is because they've been "bitten" too many times. Most customers expect a warranty on their repaired set. You could fix the vertical section this week and the audio could go out next week. Even though the problem is in a different area; the customer still expects it to be fixed for free. I think technician's realized that there was more of a chance of a 30 year old set coming back on them in a week than a 3 year old set coming back.

AMEN! Today's stuff (some of it) is easier to make reliable - one of the "preventative measures" we take is an ESR check of most 'lytic capacitors - if one is borderline, we replace it, thus preventing a possible callback. With Mouser, Digi-Key and yes, even Fleabay offering electrolytic caps for cheap, it's good insurance and easy to defend when the customer asks. We're not padding the bill, we're trying to keep from seeing the same set in 3 or 4 months when the borderline caps (usually only 1 or 2) finally act up.

Most of our recent callbacks were user-menu screw-ups. Kids or know-nothing adults that switch to external speakers, delete channels, or turn on V-chip settings and forget the password. Worse yet are the folks who expect a universal remote to control every feature on their set. My favorite was the widow that bought a cable ready set in the 80's - then brought it to us when all she got was snow. "Uh, lady - you have to subsrcibe to cable to get cable channels....." :sigh:

Cheers,

My favorite was the widow that bought a cable ready set in the 80's - then brought it to us when all she got was snow. "Uh, lady - you have to subsrcibe to cable to get cable channels....." :sigh:

I had that exact same thing happen with a 19" Zenith I sold when I was about 12 or 13. The guy called me up and wanted his money back because he couldn't get HBO on the TV. He was clueless when I asked him if he PAID to watch HBO from the cable company...DUH!!!!!! Another idiot thought he could connect a VCR to a 12" B&W TV and be able to watch the movie in color. It is also very common for the elderly around here to get in the user menu of their TV or VCR and mess things up. I knew one older lady that was screwing her settings up about once every week. I think one of the reasons for that is because today's remotes are very small with many buttons on them. They hit the wrong button and then panic trying to get back to where they were and then things really get screwed up. Heck, I'm still young and I don't like these tiny remotes. They are hard to hold and I can certainly see how someone could push the wrong button by mistake.

I remember when I shocked a friend by telling her the VCR recorded the show in color even if it was connected to a B&W TV. I guess people thought the phrase "I taped it off my TV" was literal.

Back in the early 90's when owning an NEC 25" TV/monitor was good, my friend had just bought a used one, and we were setting up the channels with a switch in "program" mode. Deleted channels were silent and added channels had sound when you hit Up or Down. The next month, I saw the same set at an electronics flea market for $25 "with no sound". I looked... Sure enough, the switch was in "program" mode. I got a bargain.

I will add that old stuff can often be made reliable; but, the time involved to do so will prevent most "shops" from bothering with it. I had a technician tell me that if you couldn't fix a TV in one hour; then, you'd better bail on it because you'd lose money (especially if you had 50 in line to be fixed). Since this is a hobby for most of us on here; we can aford to spend a week (or more) on one project.

In the 80s/early 90s, when I was still totally hopeless as far as fixing a TV, I would carry tube sets to one of the local shops. The one guy had a strict policy on tube stuff: he would fix it once, but don't bring it back, period. The last thing I carried in there was right after he started carrying RCA. (had previously just sold GE) He said he would only work on a GE or RCA; well, I came in with an early 70s RCA hybrid so he said okay. Had a no-color problem; he fixed it for about $40, told me not to bring it back. The next day the color went out again. Took it to another shop who charged me $35 and it stayed fixed. The first guy replaced a 6GH8; second guy replaced it again but also a resistor.

I had a good talk over the weekend with a repairman; he mentioned one set which took him 20+ hours to repair, and then the customer didn't want it back.

I had a good talk over the weekend with a repairman; he mentioned one set which took him 20+ hours to repair, and then the customer didn't want it back.

My Dad (a TV repairman) sees this kind of customer often - the "Oh, it costs money to fix.?.?....keep it" customers. He's flat rate on labor - no way else to make it fair for all involved. If it's a simple fix, he'll discount the labor, but if it's a dog, he eats it and learns from it for the next set with the same problem. I spent a couple of hours at his shop yesterday, and we fixed two sets in about one hour - a Sylvania (Funai) with a bad vertical chip, and a Hitachi with a bad STR30130. We had time left and junked a Panasonic with a broken CRT - clean cut under the yoke. HV apparently went nuts.

Dad says he'd have to close up shop if it wasn't for the RCA's with bad flybacks - M134C chassis, CTC203's and a few others.

As to the comment about the ability to make the old stuff reliable - I know it's possible, but you still have parts baking in an oven in these tube sets.

Cheers,

Of course, most of the newer "technicians" don't even know what a vacuum tube is and wouldn't know what to do if they had to fix a tube set.

That reminds me of a cartoon I saw in an old issue of Radio-TV Experimenter magazine about 35 years ago. An older TV, with tubes, had come in to a repair shop needing repair. Two technicians were looking at the chassis; one, a relative newcomer to TV repair, took a look at it, saw the tubes, then looked at the first tech and asked him, point blank, "What the hell is a vacuum tube?"