http://65c02.org/images/ak/tobo.jpg

This TOBO set looks like any number of $89 14" sets sold in discount stores around here, but it's a bit unusual. The first thing I noticed when saw it sitting in on the ground in the car park was the CRT. It doesn't have a standard TV CRT, it's a 0.3mm dot pitch VGA monitor CRT.

http://65c02.org/images/ak/tobo2.jpg

The label on the CRT has been removed, but the yoke has a Panasonic sticker on it. It looks secondhand to me. The plastic is yellowed and dirty. The original leads were clipped off, but the short ends are still hanging off the terminals. Judging by the melted insulation and solder splatters it took them several tries to solder the new leads on.

The chassis appears to be designed so that they can use whatever parts are on hand. Other than the CRT heaters and drive no supply rails are derived from the flyback transformer. There are several links and jumpers to allow different flybacks to be used. There PCB layout also allows for alternative vertical, jungle and audio amp ICs to be used.

The picture looks a bit odd. Despite the higher resolution CRT it doesn't look as sharp as it could be. The scan lines are quite visible and moire patterns are very noticable on some scenes. In the past I'd thought about sticking a VGA CRT into in a TV, now I know it's a bad idea.

Has anyone else seen any of these frankensets?

That is so funny! recycled CRT's in new tv sets. I love the names of these off brand electronic companies, Tobo, Coby, it kinda look likes a name brand. I think I should register some trade names like BCA, PCA, Zeroth, Zilith, Magnomous, and Telephonen. I'm sure some Chinese company will buy them.

Maybe the CRT failed and someone replaced it with one from an old monitor? I've done similar things before. Fine pitch CRTs can look excellent in a TV, but not if it's a poor quality TV. Professional video monitors use fine pitch CRTs. The picture does look softer, but I think that's an optical illusion because we can't see the smaller dots clearly.

Hmmmmm... A "New" product with used components inside. Is that little bit of information disclosed in the store and on the box? And this comes from where? China? I will have to check it out the next time I am at Walmart.

I've seen some late model Durabrand sets with Hitachi CRT's installed. I wasn't aware that Hitachi still made CRT's. I'll bet they are either recycled or old stock tubes that were bought cheap. BTW, the picture looked like crap on both sets I saw.

Is this a new set or was it a curbside find?

If it's used someone may have done the swap at some point past.

"frankensets" sums it up nicely.

If that set was made as is by an actual company, then that brand is like a box of Forrest Gump chocolates: Ya never know what you're going to get.

I really have to wonder how long that set will last...

I found four chinese importers selling used CRT's by the palletload on alibaba.com. Gotta love the Chicoms selling our trash back to us.

http://tntv.trustpass.alibaba.com/offerdetail/14741395/Sell_Refurbished_CRT.html
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/10894952/Used_Crt_Cdt_Cpt_Monitor/showimg.html
http://joenp.trustpass.alibaba.com/product/11811486/CRT_Tube.html
http://www.alibaba.com/manufacturer/15164272/Sell_Used_Picture_Tube/showimg.html

"B grade CRT"
http://inecskr.trustpass.alibaba.com/offerdetail/15589845/Sell_34_B_Grade_new_CRT_Pure_Flat_and_Normal_Flat_ .html
http://www.tekxchange.com/Used_CRT.asp

My $100 "advent" 14" flat CRT set seems to built much better than the Tobo. The CRT is a new Irico, china's state run CRT manufacturer, and the only surface mount components are the two philips chips soldered to the underside of the board. Everything else is mounted through the board. It actually displays a decent picture.
Here is the datasheet for the CRT, including the phosphor composition:
http://www.ch.com.cn/en/Products/ProductCatalog.htm
http://www.ch.com.cn/_info/en/content_926.htm
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/fsjonsey/Picture055.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/fsjonsey/Picture048.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u193/fsjonsey/Picture086.jpg

It was dumped, so I don't know it's history. It is possible someone changed the CRT, but I doubt it. Anyone who knew enough to change the CRT would have been able to replace the HOT when it failed.

I don't know who actually sells the TOBO brand here. I've seen their sets before on the used/junk market before, but I don't remember any of them having VGA CRTs in them. Most of these kind of sets that show up here (with various brand names) have Irico or Hitachi CRTs in them. I'm intrigued now and will have to have a closer look at any that I see.

I have seen articles in the past about Chinese recyclers. Those articles accused of claiming to recycle monitors while only breaking them down for the scrap metal content and creating a waste problem. It seems there are a few of them that are actually recycling the CRTs though.

I remember watching in shock and awe as the Corning Glass facility that had made faceplates since the roundie days was packed up and shipped to Red China some years back. The excuse was that most future CRT production was being done over there. I guess there's some irony in the fact that there are many top U.S. companies that simply don't see any future in U.S. operations, considering all the Chinese junk mentioned in this thread. And China's 35% labor-content law has much to do with it as well.

Well I guess better in use than in the dump. Lessens the demand to manufacture more crap.

My $100 "advent" 14" flat CRT set seems to built much better than the Tobo. The CRT is a new Irico, china's state run CRT manufacturer, and the only surface mount components are the two philips chips soldered to the underside of the board. Everything else is mounted through the board. It actually displays a decent picture.


I've got one of those too. Use it on the service bench. It does it all for dirt cheap.

Available on the market are "universal chassis" that any podunk can match with a CRT and package. I'm having no luck finding any through Alibaba right now (what's Chinese for Universal??), but one of the trade magazines my Dad (A TV dealer) gets has full page ads for Chinese made Universal Chassis. Prices IIRC are about 12-18 USD per chassis, with the lower figure for simple 19-21" (they actually list them by mm) chassis. The chassis come with remotes and batteries! Here's one aftermarket company offering them, albeit these are Sharp chassis:

http://www.lasertec.com.mx/chasis/chasis_universal.html

Funny thing is, you can't readily identify the parts on them. One Chinese chassis has a HOT that reads HY109-19 - nope, it ain't Hyundai. No logo, either. Fix it? I think not...

The same magazines offer portable CD players for about 5 USD in 2K+ quantities. Name your brand and they'll imprint it, adding about 18 cents per CD player.

Cheers

...Chinese made Universal Chassis. Prices IIRC are about 12-18 USD per chassis, with the lower figure for simple 19-21" (they actually list them by mm) chassis. The chassis come with remotes and batteries!
Well, with prices like that, no wonder there aren't (?) any more TV assembly lines in the U.S.!
Tom

Thousands of TVs go through the wholesale places I "hunt" in and are shipped on up into mainland China. Many of them get stripped down for recyclable parts. I don't know of any getting passed off as new in new cases, but in China, anything can happen and frankly, often does. It would surprise me just a little teensy bit, but certainly wouldn't shock me if this were true. "Anything to make a(n extra) buck" is the attitude or some (not all) people in China.

In one infamous local (Hong Kong) case, a furniture manufacturer was giving away a free mattress to people who bought bedroom sets. People complained the mattresses --supplied by a low-bidding Chinese mattress company to the furniture company-- were lumpy and smelled bad. When they were opened up, it was discovered that the insides (middle layers) had been filled with rubbish --probably taken straight from the city dump-- to save on cost! Anything is possible in China.

(what's Chinese for Universal??)


Probably "man yong", which means literally "10,000 use(s)".

Available on the market are "universal chassis" that any podunk can match with a CRT and package. I'm having no luck finding any through Alibaba right now (what's Chinese for Universal??), but one of the trade magazines my Dad (A TV dealer) gets has full page ads for Chinese made Universal Chassis. Prices IIRC are about 12-18 USD per chassis, with the lower figure for simple 19-21" (they actually list them by mm) chassis. The chassis come with remotes and batteries! Here's one aftermarket company offering them, albeit these are Sharp chassis:

http://www.lasertec.com.mx/chasis/chasis_universal.html

Funny thing is, you can't readily identify the parts on them. One Chinese chassis has a HOT that reads HY109-19 - nope, it ain't Hyundai. No logo, either. Fix it? I think not...

The same magazines offer portable CD players for about 5 USD in 2K+ quantities. Name your brand and they'll imprint it, adding about 18 cents per CD player.

Cheers
It says those lasertec chassis' are made in Japan. I highly doubt that.

Found a universal chassis on alibaba.com
http://zjwansan.en.alibaba.com/product/50426573/52394974/TV_CHASSIS/TV_chassis/showimg.html
Quote from the specs:
1) It's a special building block style TV chassis for the repair market

2) All of the parts are connected with the cables,it's very convenient to change and repair

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50373269/Patented_TV_chassis.jpg
Heres a brand new modular Chassis:
http://frank-ele.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/58141585/Sell_Patented_TV_chassis/showimg.html
http://zjwansan.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/200318442/sell_tv_chassis/showimg.html
Whats the point of a modular chassis if you cant buy new modules?

Isn't it funny? We're a capatilist country, yet many of our business's are setting up shop in China, a hybrid communist country. They're setting up there because the cost of parts and labor is cheaper. Our country can't match that low cost without sacrificing wages and worker safety. China's labor laws aren't as strict.

Economics makes some strange bedfellows and contridictions...

Reading through trade magazines from the fifties you can see ads for companies that sold used tv chassis in bulk and grade 'B' picture tubes (or were they lower than that?) which were just dusted off and relabled used tubes. Then there were companies that took receiving tubes-"pulls" or seconds-and relabled/reboxed them. Nothing is really new-China is just 50 years behind us!

At some flea markets and lower rent discount department stores they sell refurbished electronics. These are usually in a plain white box with a name brand stamped on it. The local Roses typically has some Emersons or Samsungs like this. Warning on the box that what's inside may differ from the display. Might not be so bad, might have really been fixed at their US facility where an expert tech fixed the bad solder joints. But who really knows? Thing is that the price is usually about in line with what Wal*Mart charges for a brand new one. It is hard to believe how cheaply they can produce things. A non-electronic example: a local company sells supplies to airlines, hotels, etc., including washcloths. These used to be made locally but are now imported from China. One enterprising fellow buys bundles of cloths from them and then goes around selling them to people for shop rags. I bought some from him and they serve the purpose just fine. I paid him $20 for a bundle of 2,000 all cotton terry cloth washcloths. Once you cut out all the middlemen, how much do you suppose the girl who sewed them got paid?

Well... that's how most 70s and 80s european sets were built... nothing new...

It says those lasertec chassis' are made in Japan. I highly doubt that.

Found a universal chassis on alibaba.com
http://zjwansan.en.alibaba.com/product/50426573/52394974/TV_CHASSIS/TV_chassis/showimg.html
Quote from the specs:


http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50373269/Patented_TV_chassis.jpg
Heres a brand new modular Chassis:
http://frank-ele.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/58141585/Sell_Patented_TV_chassis/showimg.html
http://zjwansan.en.alibaba.com/offerdetail/200318442/sell_tv_chassis/showimg.html
Whats the point of a modular chassis if you cant buy new modules?

Well... that's how most 70s and 80s european sets were built... nothing new...

I know, Im just suprised they'd go through the trouble of making a disposable chassis modular.

The CRT failed and someone replaced it with one from an old monitor?

In fact, they're almost impossible to repair as they're fitted with weird Chinese custom made ICs and transistors you just cant get for love or money...

Turkish and Indian made sets are exactly the same kind of junk... or even worse

I know, Im just suprised they'd go through the trouble of making a disposable chassis modular.

Few people want CRT based computer monitors anymore, and maybe someone had a warehouseful of VGA CRTs to unload. And some TV makers love to score a bargain...

I didn't realise it the other night but that modular chassis has Funai all over it. Worst shit I've ever seen.

In fact, they're almost impossible to repair as they're fitted with weird Chinese custom made ICs and transistors you just cant get for love or money...

Turkish and Indian made sets are exactly the same kind of junk... or even worse

Most of the cheap Chinese sets I've seen use a pretty standard selection of parts. Sometimes the ICs in the Chinese sets have nonstandard part numbers, but I've been able to find an equivalent by googling the unknown part number. Often I'll end up in the pages of some Chinese forum, but the part numbers are readable. Every Turkish Vestel set I've seen is full of Philips parts.

So far the only odd parts to completely stump me are the Russian ICs I found in a Teac set.

The most common faults in the ones I find are horizontal output transistors (which are easily subbed), bad capacitors, and power supply faults caused by power surges (usually takes out the rectifier/diodes, chopper transistor and some resistors).

Well... some exaples of sets i had to scrap due to unavailable components.

Turkish made Goodmans (Beko): the controller chip was made by Micronas and was absolutely unavailable as a spare part... landfill

Indian made Hortz: the switch mode power supply was based on a 5-pin power IC, absolutely unavailable... landfill

Chinese made United: same SMPSU story as above... landfill

You can't even get any kind of schematic or service literature for them... they're even nastier than plasma or LCD TVs...

On the other hand, the schematics for most European and Japanese sets are readily available.

The first Beko I've seen just came in the other day. I haven't looked at it yet and I already get the feeling it's scrap (no remote and no access to AV or menus via the front panel makes it unsaleable). I've yet to see an Indian made set, but for some reason I expect they're worse than the Chinese ones.

I suspect most of the cheap Chinese sets here come from the same factory regardless of what brand they have on them. Most of them have very similar chassis. Strangely, I did find the schematic for one set in it's box. I don't know if it was supposed to be in there, but it was. I've also found a couple of phonebook sized Chinese electronics magazines full of copied schematics. Maybe it's time to learn Chinese. :)

I have pretty much given up on the local parts suppliers for ICs. If they do have it they want way too much for it. I recently needed a convergence IC for a Philips rear projection TV. The local price was $71 each, but I could order it from the USA for $9.99. Others with better connections than I have order their parts directly from China.

I can almost guess which 5 pin SMPS IC you're referring to. That's one I have encountered and I couldn't get it either. The USA supplier I normally use listed it in their catalog, but it was backordered for a month and I couldn't wait that long for the rest of the order.

I salvage most of my parts where possible. Most of the sets I find wouldn't be worth fixing if I had to buy the parts. The sets that aren't worth fixing (bad crts, badly damaged cabinets, parts unavailable, etc) get scrapped and their chassis go into the pile to provide the parts for the ones that are worth fixing.

approx 12 years ago,i went to a sale at the sun tv warehouse building. i purchaseda daewoo 25 inch set in the box for 69.00. got it home and the crt was shorted. i took it back under warranty and the tech told me the tube was rca . it was shorted because it was a used tube in a new set. he said that many overseas manufacturers were recycling old tubes and thats why they had a high failure rate.they replaced it after 3 trys of making adjustments. very bad service-led to their demise. they installed a used tube also,but for 69.00? it is still around ,in my daughters home ,used by her kids.

Few people want CRT based computer monitors anymore, and maybe someone had a warehouseful of VGA CRTs to unload. And some TV makers love to score a bargain... Penn State University Salvage has multiple pallet loads of CRT monitors of all sizes every time that I go there. There are literally hundreds of them all stacked up every which-way and shrink-wrapped waiting to go to a wholesaler, then on to who-knows-where. (After reading this thread, I wonder if they are coming back across the pond to a WalMart near you?) These are not the 13" and 15" monitors from long ago. They look like they are all name brand large screen CRT monitors that are no more than a couple of years old. Sometimes there is not enough room indoors for the pallet-loads of them so they sit outdoors. There is a constant stream of monitors and pretty recent looking PCs that pass through that place. In my shop I still use a perfectly good 17" CRT monitor that I paid good money for at least five years ago. Heck, the old PC runs Windows 98, but it still gets me to Google and most importantly it gets me to AK whenever I ask it to.

Penn State University Salvage has multiple pallet loads of CRT monitors of all sizes every time that I go there.

I miss that place. Say hi to Glenn for me next time you go there!

At least they seemed to do what We don't do recycle woking CRT's and give thm a new like as a New TV set. instead of wasting them. i have to give them a :thmbsp:

i will never give up my 19" trinitron computermonitors