Greetings all :)

Im new here and also apreciate old B/W tv sets, been tinkering with em since the 6th grade. Got out of it for awhile, but am back to it. :)

Recently, i scored a Packard Bell 2116 DeLuxe (2115-2 chassis) Iknow i need to do a total Cap job on it. UNFORTUNATELY, the owner didnt know that and PLUGGED IT IN... Needless to say , he smoked the transformer (stamped 89041) Looks like a 13 wire one, (primaries included in count)

Fortunately, i kept a BIG box of tubes so thats covered, only wish i wasnt forced out of the garage or ide still have my old tv parts around...

Ide apreciate any help (parts, spec books, advice, etc.) you can give me :)
check your piles :) :)
Thanks
Steve

Welcome! I would think among the group here we can at least find you a Sams schematic package for this set. Are you certain the transformer is shot? I am not at all familiar with Packard-Bell sets as few of them seemed to come this far east.

thanks Bgadow :)

Yeah im afraid its shot, the guy admitted to plugging it in and he saw smoke from the transformer (he didnt know better) It also has that sweet aroma you get from burnt windings.. The tv looks comparable to a DUMONT chassis.

Im hoping more collectors will chime in with parts and some help with this project. The cabinet is SWEET and ide love to get this back up and running

This isnt the first packard bell ive had, i had a tv/radio/phonagraph combo in 79. Had the parts lying around till about 2 yrs ago when my nephew cleaned the garrage out and errected a bedroom. I lost alot of good parts that day, so im starting from scratch on this project.

Again thanks for the fond welcome :)

Steve

You may find a transformer at Moyers Electronics. They supplied one for my RCA TC-127 restoration when I thought there was no hope.

http://www.moyerelectronics.com

thanks tubejunke :)

I just left them a parts inquiry

Steve

Welcome to th' Mad Monks section of AK...Here you will find no end of arcane knowlege, half-forgotten lore, & hopefully a tranny for yer Studebaker-Packard, erm, Taco Bell, uhh, PACKARD-BELL...Hey, I knew I'd get it right...

Here is some info I dug up: the set is listed in Sams 195-9. I have a copy that I'll send you-shoot me a PM with your address and I'll stick it in the mail. Some versions of your set used transformer # 89036B. Looks like either version will work with minor changes. Stancor part # is P-8340, Thordarson is 26R35.

thanks Sandy G and all others whove chimed in and offered help
Its TRULY appreciated, I admit i was worried at first about being able to restore this tv, but after all the replies, i'm feeling alot better about it

This is truly an "AWESOME" place :)
Thanks again all :)
Steve

Looks like Moyer cant find me a power supply but they do have the flyback...

Not sure if the CRT is good, according to my tester its weak, then again i dunno if my tester is accurate :)

Either way this is what the project looks like

Steve

what about a T639?

>what about a T639?

What are the output specs on the T639 fujifronitier?

Okay, the parts are on their way..

where does one find capacitors? My MOUSER book is an 04 and its quite confusing dont see any 600v ones in there.

Also have 3 can caps that need to go. Where does one find all the caps they need? :scratch2:

Steve

Here are a couple of sources for capacitors.

http://www.tubesandmore.com/

http://www.radiodaze.com/

There are more . . .

It may be tricky to find an exact replacement for a multi-unit can capacitor. Most people either disconnect the old cans and wire new caps under the chassis, or "restuff" the old cans with new caps.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

We have found some good deals recently on 450 v. electrolytics at Mouser (individual value caps, you can use a terminal strip to mount them on and replace the cans)
Just search at http://www.mouser.com rather than using the paper catalog.
Am not sure if they have 600v mylar caps as we have not had to re-stock those yet but we have found Mouser gives the quickest service and a true wholesale price on what we have ordered from them.

Thanks for the wonderful cap hookups :)
I dont know if its just a "packard bell thing" Having trouble locating replacements for the wax caps with .MFD@600V types EX. .1, .05, etc.

Can anybody link me in the right direction?
Thanks
Steve

www.justradios.com

The only place I buy caps online. Excellent service there.

Good luck!
Matt D

Thanks Matt, yeah ive been to these sites, dont know if im doing something wrong or what, im finding whole number caps, just not finding fractional ones.

lots of 40s 10s etc, just not .01 ,.005s etc.. :)

Been a long time since high school electronics. Just wondering if im gonna be able to find exact replacements or is some creative substitutions gonna be the case. I do have some caps lying around ,but i have forgotten how much higher than original value can be subbed without affecting original performance.

I'll be able to swap out the caps.. i just may need a little help shopping around for the right fit...:)

thanks again :)
Steve

Steve:

You must be looking in the wrong places on those sites. On the RadioDaze site look under polyester film caps and you will find all the values you need. Most places have 630 volt instead of 600 but that is fine. On the Just Radios site look under the capacitor and price list and those caps are over on the left side. I too have had excellent service from those two places.

Steve

You hit the nail on the head Steve K :)

So many sizes, values, tollerances and types, its hard to make heads or tails of what i need...

Thanks for narrowing it down :thmbsp:

Steve

I was collecting radios and TV's for many years before I understood capacitors and just what I needed. Finally someone took the time to show me and that opened up a whole new world for me.

Remember on voltage you can go higher but not lower. You can replace a 200v cap with a 1200v cap and it won't matter a bit. As for capacitance, get as close as you can. Values differ somewhat from what once was standard. Instead of .05 use .047, for .2 you can use .22. There are different grades of caps. For replacing most paper types I have found the polyester film type to work fine. If you look in the big catalogs from Mouser or Allied you can set your head to spinning with the variety.

Thanks Bryan, i was just about to mention im having problems finding .05 and .2s :)

Someone should devise a substitute list here because i bet not all the old cap values are represented these days..

Steve

JustRadios has started carrying the earlier (what they call Pre-WWII) values. (Example: http://www.justradios.com/capkits.html#kit3). I'm pretty sure they have one of about everything ever made.

Thanks Kburi ill check em out :)

My transformer got here today... Its a MERIT P-3057 exact replacement to an RCA 76495... I admit im concerned about the 700 center tapped output My unit takes 670 CT. But the guy said the tv could handle it..

Heres where i get confused: it has 3 6.5 outputs The 9.5A one is for the majority tube fillaments.. then i have 2 rated at 1.5A and 2.4A . Logicly ide think of wiring the 1.5A to the 6ax4 since its one tube and the 2.4A to the 6k6 and the 6ag5..
The MERIT manual suggests use section5 for the damper tube which is the 2.4A one. Since this is not an RCA tv application, does this suggestion even apply to me?

Steve

Standing by on CRT readiness

Getting ready to order caps...

Chad , your right about mouser , i use them a lot and they are very quick and reliable . And fairly priced on caps .

Before i order, heres the senario:

The tv has 3 electrolytic multi tap can caps (40/40/10@450v example)
The power cap has the 40/40 taps briged (tied together) When i order new singles to replace the cans, do i have to buy 2 40s and tie them together, or can i get away with one 40? Will new capacitor technology hold up?

Steve

Steve:

The two 40s tied together make an 80 MFD cap. You can get two 40s (or two 47s) or an 80 by 450.

Steve

Got my capacitors and am in the install process. CRT is awaiting my payment to ship, all is well so far :)

Ah technology,, out go the white wax caps- in go the small orange chicklets hehehe
Im amazed how these small black caps are gonna hold up to what the BIG can caps used to do.. :)

Speaking of which, i was given a .5 to replace a .47 bumblebee is this correct?

Steve

Remember that the tolerances of old capacitors was + or - 20 percent. That means that a .47 could have been as low as .38 and as high as .56 when they were new. The circuits were designed to work with this variation in value. Modern caps are usually within a percent or two. So, using a .5 for a .47 is well within the design range.

Thanks Steve, i just soldered it in :)

Now im down to my E-caps.

Has anyone used NOS can capacitors? I have a box of them and was wondering if they are even useful these days...

Steve

Honestly, I wouldn't trust any old electrolytics, NOS or not.

I have used some NOS cans that a local electroncs shop sells me at a good discount. I can never get them to admit that age is a factor with capacitors. So far they have been right but I have only tried a few. The reason they sell them to me cheap is only the fact that there is zero demand for them. They have tons of Sams folders they would like to get rid of along with a pile of 70's (I think) color CRT's. You would think they would gladly give me the stuff to avoid one day having to haul it all off to the dump but they only cut me a certain amount from their list price no matter what the item.

Anyhow the capacitor age question has long been debated. I think if you want to use a set as if it were a new set it would be good to replace everything with fresh parts. However I am often amazed at just how long capacitors will do their thing. Especially in radios. I have radios from the 30's and 40's with mostly or all original components except tubes. I also have 3 television sets that are 50 plus years old with mostly original caps and still going strong. I only use the TV sets for maybe 30 minutes at a time though.

I have used some NOS cans that a local electroncs shop sells me at a good discount. I can never get them to admit that age is a factor with capacitors. So far they have been right but I have only tried a few. The reason they sell them to me cheap is only the fact that there is zero demand for them. They have tons of Sams folders they would like to get rid of along with a pile of 70's (I think) color CRT's. You would think they would gladly give me the stuff to avoid one day having to haul it all off to the dump but they only cut me a certain amount from their list price no matter what the item.

Anyhow the capacitor age question has long been debated. I think if you want to use a set as if it were a new set it would be good to replace everything with fresh parts. However I am often amazed at just how long capacitors will do their thing. Especially in radios. I have radios from the 30's and 40's with mostly or all original components except tubes. I also have 3 television sets that are 50 plus years old with mostly original caps and still going strong. I only use the TV sets for maybe 30 minutes at a time though.

Actually, the zenith in my sig is still on all of its original cans, and its 52 years old. The sealed metal cans seem to hold up better than the wax/cardboard electrolytics used in cheap series string TV's and AC/DC radios. I never trust those. All of the paper caps are long gone though. Those bargain green poly film caps JustRadios sells in bulk do their job quite nicely. Sometimes having to solder on longer leads or combine caps to get the corrent value is worth the extra effort to save money. Hooray for being a poor student! It's pretty sad when orange drops are out of your price range.

Well for fun i plugged it in and......

HOLY CRAP IT WORKED!!!!! :jawdrop:
Even with the bad CRT i got a picture.. :D
Sound is a bit weak till ya mess with the fine tuning
Turn out the lights and its watchable

Hurry up payday i need a CRT!! :banana:

Steve

Thanks Steve, i just soldered it in :)

Has anyone used NOS can capacitors? I have a box of them and was wondering if they are even useful these days...

Steve

Sure do - I reform all of my old NOS caps before using - there are two very well written documents on the web detailing the procedure(s). One is on the Sencore website ("Tech Tip 170" - surely to help sell their Capacitor/Inductor Analyzers) and one is a DOD document - Handbook 1131 " STORAGE SHELF LIFE AND REFORMING PROCEDURES FOR ALUMINUM ELECTROLYTIC FIXED CAPACITORS " - it uses tungsten (incandescent) lamps to limit the current when reforming.

I personally use a Sencore LC53 or LC102 when reforming. I prefer my LC102 with it's full range of checks and it's ability to apply current limited voltages up to 999V. Most (95%) of the Mallory "FP" or Sprague "TVL" caps I've had for 20+ years come right back with just a reforming. CDE (Cornell Dublier) caps come back about 70% of the time, but what I have are much older than either my Mallory, Sprague, RCA, GE or Zenith NOS caps. If it fails reforming, no way would I use it. One caveat - RCA used a multisection cap on some of their Colortrak sets in the 80's - the one thats mounted horizontally in a clip on the back of the chassis - I always replace that with two or three separate caps, because the RCA replacements (Taiwanese made) usually fail quickly.

Check your caps for ones with 450/475 volt ratings - the tube audio guys go nuts for them. I sold a dozen ( I had 31!) of my Zenith caps to one guy here on AK. They'll usually go for 10-15 bucks each. All of the lower voltage ones I keep and use - I've got a HP pulse gen I recapped with an old Admiral cap about a year ago, and it's still working.

Cheers,

The restoration is going well with ONE EXEPTION:

I have a 6CD6G Horizontal output tube... Pin3 had a .47@200V bumblebee cap and and a 300 ohm resistor parallel to ground. When i got my new caps
I was given a .5 as a .47 sub. and... THE TV DONT LIKE IT. Really messes up the horiz lin. I put the old.47 in and it was good. Even with no cap on that leg it was good. Now what?

Steve

Hmm... possibly something wrong with the new cap? Maybe another problem in the circuit? There should be no discernible difference. The bumblebee is undoubtedly leaky, but it probably doesnt matter much because it is shunted with 300 ohms. I would still want to replace it.

What kind of capacitor is the new .05?

John

its one of those metalized polyester film MET "tubular axials (yellow)
rated 504k 630v

Yeah the tv is happy with no cap there. Mind ya i had to replace the fly with a RAM X068 fly

Steve

Not sure why you are having trouble finding 600V replacement capacitors.... You will, of course, not find wax paper capacitors, but rather modern film types, either axial lead or radial lead, either one of which will work.

In addition to the already mentioned links to parts suppliers, justradios has a good offering of replacement capacitors including 600V.

http://www.justradios.com/capacitors.html

The entore Sprague Atom line of axial lead electrolytics is still available through Mouser and others.

Well, Im confused, but since you changed the flyback I suppose that could explain it.

It's not that uncommon to have to make minor componnent changees when replacing a flyback. If the bumblebee is open, I guess that could be the reason it works.

John

When in doubt, i added a variable resistor and dialed it in :)

Steve

Well, here is the finished product :

Thanks to BGADOW for the SAMS that got me started :D

Thanks to RANDY BASSHAM for the CRT:thmbsp:

And to all in this thread who pointed me in the right directions for parts and gave advice :banana:

Steve

Excuse the pics,,, its a CHEAP camera :)

That really looks great. Good job! :thmbsp:

John

Great job!!!
Dan

Picture looks great! I knew it took awhile. With the help of the gang on here you now have not only a nice playing set but a nice looking one at that. This is a good example where input, research, patience and asking plenty of questions got the job done. I know i learned a couple of things watching this restoration. Great job Steve!
-Tony