Hi everybody! I finally got a genuine Zenith roundie! :banana:
It seems it has been modified to receive the Pal standard (the small unit just at the left of the chassis). I really can't wait to pick it up! From the pictures I seem to read it has a 24MC32 chassis. Is there everyone out there who can give advices and informations about this set? I would really get the best from it !!!
All the best
Marco

Marco-Is the cabinet sheet metal, or real wood? If it's metal, it looks to be a "double-1st cousin" to my roundie...Mine also has legs that screw into the bottom of the cabinet. It doesn't currently work, but one of these days, it'll get a trip to go see Dr. DeWick...Mine's a '65, was the 1st color set in my family...My grandad had it in his office, we'd watch the Thanksgiving Day & New Year's Day parades on it..That was REALLY somethin', to a boy of 7, 8...I hope you get yours runnin' & can enjoy it soon...Congrats on yr "new" TV...-Sandy

Let me add my congratulations too. That is a sheet metal cabinet. I've always liked the metal ones although some consider them plain. As one who just restored a Zenith roundie of similar vintage, I can tell you if it is done right, the picture will amaze you. Zenith color sets always have warm rich color tones and the roundies are no exception. Keep us posted with pics of your progress and feel free to ask any questions you may have. We're here to help and I can assure you the results will be worth it. The only thing better than a Zenith is two Zeniths

Mine's sheet metal, but very heavy sheet metal, & covered w/a vinyl woodgrain covering that is good enuff to fool you to think it really IS wood... No cataract, & this TV was stored for awhile in a damp basement..On inspection, the 1VP2 (?) tube was broken, & its socket crumbled in my hand, so I know at least THAT much is wrong w/mine. Looked like it had been way too hot several times.. Anyhow, I WAS impressed w/the general level of construction on this TV-Zenith stuff NEVER was "Cheap 'n' shoddy"-not at least while they were in Chicago.

Hello Sandy and Compucat! Thank you for your kind replies! The Zenith has a very dark reddish cabinet, quite unusual for a television. It's all metal and everything seems to be made to last for decades.Unfortunately I will not be able to put my hands on it until July. I hope there will not be too many things to fix up. According to what the seller said to me, it belonged to an old man who died several years ago leaving it unused for ages. It was found in the attic when relatives sold the house. I ever dreamed about finding an attic full of Zenith stuff!!! Compucat, you're absolutely right! Two Zeniths are better than one and three even better but this one has been very difficult to find here (I had to offer 500 euro for it...) and I don't think I will soon find another! Do you know if this kind of set does work with vcrs and dvd players? Could it be retrofitted with a space command module?

Compucat, you're absolutely right! Two Zeniths are better than one and three even better but this one has been very difficult to find here (I had to offer 500 euro for it...) and I don't think I will soon find another! Do you know if this kind of set does work with vcrs and dvd players?


I have my Zenith connected to a combination VCR-DVD Recorder-ATSC Digital tuner. The only issues I have are that I get retrace lines from Macrovision copy protected DVDs but this will show up on most vintage TVs. Digital TV looks great on it and DVDs look even better. My set is not a remote model so I don't know about adding Space Command. The tuner I have hooked to my set has a remote so I only have to get up to adjust the volume and turn the set on and off.

Mine's sheet metal, but very heavy sheet metal, & covered w/a vinyl woodgrain covering that is good enuff to fool you to think it really IS wood... No cataract, & this TV was stored for awhile in a damp basement..On inspection, the 1VP2 (?) tube was broken, & its socket crumbled in my hand, so I know at least THAT much is wrong w/mine. Looked like it had been way too hot several times.. Anyhow, I WAS impressed w/the general level of construction on this TV-Zenith stuff NEVER was "Cheap 'n' shoddy"-not at least while they were in Chicago.

Are you referring to the 1V2 focus rectifier tube? If so, I don't think that tube gets very hot. I'm surprised you would have a crumbling socket on that one. Are you planning to get the set going? I would love to follow the restoration progress on this forum.

Congradulations on an excellent find! It must feel great to find your first roundie, especially a zenith in Italy! A 24MC32 chassis is a 1965 model. Thats interesting that they had a pal converter. Since the TV was for pal, I bet the chassis number is slightly different as it was not for the US market.
As for the 1V2 socket crumbling, it does happen. Its not from heat, its from corona arc. The 5KV at the pin of the 1V2 tends to arc to ground. This results in carbon build and breakdown of the bakelite socket. On my 26KC20, I lost focus because the carbon almost completely grounded the 5KV. Ive seen this breakdown on two zenith roundies.

...

I bet the chassis of this Zenith was assembled in Italy (or heavily modified here anyway)... because apart from the PAL color system, the set has to work with our 50 hz mains and our 625/50 system

if i'm right, there are probably Italian glass-encased capacitors in place of black beauties and wax caps under the chassis.

Francesco

...

I think the flyback and the CRT's yoke (and of course the V and H oscillators) need to be different to work with our 15,625 hz horizontal and 50 hz vertical 625 line system.

Francesco

I think that the set except for the voltage and of course for the NTSC (3.58 MHz) to PAL(4.43 MHz) does not need to be modified a lot. 30 x 525=15750 versus 25 x 625=15625. The line frequency is very similar. The vertical oscillator has enough range to go down to 25 instead of 30. I have a few roundies in NTSC and the only problem I have is the magnetic field out of the transformer at 50 hertz influencing the 30 pics of the american system. It can make the picture a bit wobely. Just moving the step down transformer away from the set usually cures the problem. This will be ok since we have 25 pics/sec. Sound here is at 5.5 MHz away from picture. If I remember well, An old B/W set will work easily only by retuning the sound and adjusting the picture size without changing any components.

---

Hmm... i don't see a PAL delay line in there... mid 60s PAL delay lines were really bulky so you should be able to see it somewhere near the PAL converter chassis...

If I'm right, this is a "simple PAL" set

Francesco

I think this is the picture everybody needs to look at to solve the Zenith-in-Italy connection...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51722&d=1181911960

Some dealer named "...ndellini" (Andellini?) was obviously selling enough Zenith sets that he bothered to print "Zenith - TV - Color" on a label.

What's the story on that? Zenith's were built in Chicago, and I've heard that a lot of Italians settled there, some more famous than others. :D

Great chassis. I've worked on tons of them in the late '60s & early '70s. Easy to work on, great picture. The most common problems (other than cockroaches and bugs) were heat related ie: wiring and terminal strips under chassis. Enjoy.

I notice that that set does not have the sharpness control and the color control does not have the pull switch feature to turn the color off. I thought the color switch to be an unusual feature since the set has a color killer circuit but I use that switch on mine when doing the black and white setup. Is that what it was intended for? I would love to find an owner's manual for my Zenith roundie.

---

Mine also lacks the sharpness control. It's around back instead. My cabinet is comparable to compucat's in quality. I think mine's a year later.

I remember the color on/off switch from my family's set of the 1960s/70s. In the day when only 10% of programming was in color, switching it off improved B/W viewing. Interference, ghosts, or "fringe viewing" would lead to color artifacts that would be occasionally unpleasant. Turning off the color minimized this problem. I'm guessing that's what the user's manual would say too, in a nutshell.

:tresbon:
Dear Marco, i am :cry:ing (so happy!)
What a beautiful set!
Now:
- Don't remove the label and
- Don't remove PAL and CCIR artifacts!
Ah:
Wow!!!

Hello everybody! Sorry for not answering sooner to all the replies but I was on holiday :boring:
Compucat I have the user manual for the 24MC32 Zenith tv I just bought. I can send you color scans if you want. I have a meeting this evening with the man I bought the tv from. I will pick it up today and I'm really thrilled! I will post more pictures as long as I get my hands on it! This is not my first roundie nor it is my first Zenith tv. I own A Rca CT-100, an hybrid 23" Zenith made expressly for Pal system and another tube type Zenith color 19", a 15" color sentry portable,a Heathkit GR2701 digital system3 and several b/w portables and a couple of 23" tabletop. All the Zeniths have metal cabinets with woodgrain finish (except the 15" model and the Heathkit console). The Zenith roundie has a metal cabinet too but it is a strange maroon-reddish color, in my opinion not very suitable to match with usual furniture. It comes with a huge external transformer to step down voltage from our 220V to your 115V. Zenith used to be a famous brand here around Florence during the sixties as there was an importer who modified the sets and then sold them. I had the chance to see the warehouse just four years ago; still filled with new in the box roundies! Unfortunately the man (now quite old) told me he intended to keep these last unsold Zenith tvs. Later I known all this was thrown away by his son who needed the place for his business...what a shame!
I will let you know how the roundie works (if he does work...) and I will post pictures. Now I have to pick up the car and go getit. I have more than 300Km to do and I hardly can wait...:D
Marco

Hello everybody! Sorry for not answering sooner to all the replies but I was on holiday :boring:
Compucat I have the user manual for the 24MC32 Zenith tv I just bought. I can send you color scans if you want. I have a meeting this evening with the man I bought the tv from. I will pick it up today and I'm really thrilled! I will post more pictures as long as I get my hands on it! This is not my first roundie nor it is my first Zenith tv. I own A Rca CT-100, an hybrid 23" Zenith made expressly for Pal system and another tube type Zenith color 19", a 15" color sentry portable,a Heathkit GR2701 digital system3 and several b/w portables and a couple of 23" tabletop. All the Zeniths have metal cabinets with woodgrain finish (except the 15" model and the Heathkit console). The Zenith roundie has a metal cabinet too but it is a strange maroon-reddish color, in my opinion not very suitable to match with usual furniture. It comes with a huge external transformer to step down voltage from our 220V to your 115V. Zenith used to be a famous brand here around Florence during the sixties as there was an importer who modified the sets and then sold them. I had the chance to see the warehouse just four years ago; still filled with new in the box roundies! Unfortunately the man (now quite old) told me he intended to keep these last unsold Zenith tvs. Later I known all this was thrown away by his son who needed the place for his business...what a shame!
I will let you know how the roundie works (if he does work...) and I will post pictures. Now I have to pick up the car and go getit. I have more than 300Km to do and I hardly can wait...:D
Marco

115V or 110v? An external stabilization?

Hello everybody! The Zenith is still in my car waiting someone to help me to bring it to the fifth floor...
Obviously I couldn't wait to turn it on so I managed to do it just in the car. Here are pictures of the set connected to a vcr via a uhf modulator. I get audio and some sort of picture. This is distorted horizontally. Attempting to get the best reception the piture collapses into a very bright white line and the the raster comes back. The static convergence is poor and so the focus. I seem to see vertical colored bars in the background with a blank white screen. One side of the screen is one color and the other another one! Advancing the color control to get the maximum color intensity the picture tends to blur and some noise appears on it. Colors are all off. No red shown while the blue demodulation seems good. The contrast is good and so the picture tube. Where to start? Any help from you more skilled people will be more than welcome! Here are some pictures...

Carmine, the name of the original seller was Gandellini. There is a label on one side with the name of the shop and the telephone number. Useless to say the number is no longer on service. This tv was bought from a man in Brescia and it was used for many years (you can say it by the wear of the knobs) since he died. It then sat unused in an attic where the relatives of the original owner found it. They decided to sell it through ebay and here is mine now!

Alrite !! You got you a WINNER there, Marco !! Looks like a standard re-capping, maybe replace a tube or that might have gone weak, & you'll be all set ! But you know getting this roundie is gonna cause Trouble, don't you ?!? You'll have all yr friends to come over & watch it after you get it all straightened out & runnin' fine, there'll be fights to see who gets to sit right up close...Roundies have that effect on people...<grin>

Thank you Sandy. Unfortunately all my friends just think I'm mad beyond any hope... I don't know what effect have roundies on people. I only noticed after operating it for about two hours at close range it got me a strange stomach sensation and little headache... Any clue? Emotion perhaps?
Gianni, riesco a capire ben poco di quel che scrivi sia in Inglese che in Italiano... Che differenza fa se la tv è alimentata a 110 o 115 volts?

Thank you Sandy. Unfortunately all my friends just think I'm mad beyond any hope... I don't know what effect have roundies on people. I only noticed after operating it for about two hours at close range it got me a strange stomach sensation and little headache... Any clue? Emotion perhaps?
Gianni, riesco a capire ben poco di quel che scrivi sia in Inglese che in Italiano... Che differenza fa se la tv è alimentata a 110 o 115 volts?


Com'era il numero? 055... ?

Il numero di chi???

Wow, a beautiful set. The problems you describe related to needing a complete color setup. You can't really judge the set by how well it works in the car. After all, that is not their optimum design environment. The vertical collapse when adjusting may be just the way this set is. Mine does that if I turn the vertical hold too quickly in the counterclockwise direction. I think the oscillator can't keep up with such a rapid change in settings. If it does it when you change channels, that is another matter. Keep us posted. It's going to be a great set when it's done.

P.S. I would like to have color scans of the user manual. I'll send you my e-mail address in a P.M.

Il numero di chi???

Your number, mister!

347/3585521
There you are! You can call now!

Hello everybody! After a lot of work and even more study at the schematic diagram (which was really not easy...) I finally discovered what the problem was with my Zenith "pal modified" 24MC32,model 5304U (The Buchanan). I changed the cristal quartz (4,43Mc) and the odd colors left finally place to more normal colors. I then grounded pin 2 of the 4,43Mc and then I tuned the reactance coil for steady color bars. The results were amazing especially thinking it is a tv more than forty years old! Ok, there are more things to fix, the focus control must be set fully counterclockwise to get a decent picture, there are few retrace lines on top of picture and the hue control must be set to its position were you normally get pink colors to achieve normal flesh tones.
Here are few pictures of the set...
I must admit I'm really happy!:banana:

Awrite, Tritwi !! Lookin' GOOD !

Way to go!

Hello everybody! After a lot of work and even more study at the schematic diagram (which was really not easy...) I finally discovered what the problem was with my Zenith "pal modified" 24MC32,model 5304U (The Buchanan). I changed the cristal quartz (4,43Mc) and the odd colors left finally place to more normal colors. I then grounded pin 2 of the 4,43Mc and then I tuned the reactance coil for steady color bars. The results were amazing especially thinking it is a tv more than forty years old! Ok, there are more things to fix, the focus control must be set fully counterclockwise to get a decent picture, there are few retrace lines on top of picture and the hue control must be set to its position were you normally get pink colors to achieve normal flesh tones.
Here are few pictures of the set...
I must admit I'm really happy!:banana:

I am happy too!:smoke:
Is there a PAL delay? There is a hue control, i see.
:scratch2:

There is a coil that will allow you to adjust the hue range. Set the hue control to mid position and adjust the coil for natural flesh tones. The location of the coil should be identified on the schematic. That's a great picture by the way. That's a lot like the way mine looks. I love the deep reds these sets produce.

Hi Gianni, the set has a tint control (useless with our Pal system) but no chroma delay line. Hello compucat, thank you for your advice! Do you remember what the coil you mention is? The flesh tone is achieved only with the control fully counterclockwise. Turning it even just slightly makes flesh tones go completely off (blue skin tones). I think I also need to replace few tubes here and there... You're right. The reds are deep,really amazing!

Interestingly, this set has no PVA cataracts...

Francesco

Some of those tubes do not use PVA but instead have the safety glass seperate with a rubber gasket. I have a couple like that, including a 25MC30 Zenith, but have not had them apart to see just how it fits. It may have only been done on the standard models; maybe the anti-glare tubes were bonded?

Hi Gianni, the set has a tint control (useless with our Pal system) but no chroma delay line.

I believe this set is fitted with simple PAL circuits. Simple PAL has no delay line but a tint (or hue) control.

- Eckhard

Some of those tubes do not use PVA but instead have the safety glass seperate with a rubber gasket. I have a couple like that, including a 25MC30 Zenith, but have not had them apart to see just how it fits. It may have only been done on the standard models; maybe the anti-glare tubes were bonded?

I'm wondering why American CRTs used separate or PVA bonded safety glass lenses until the late 60s, while most European sets made after 1964 had CRTs with the modern "tensioned rimband" type of integral implosion protection and did away with any kind of safety glass in front of the actual CRT's face...

Maybe the separate or bonded safety glass was a legal requirement in the US back then?

Francesco

Think you're right, Francesco. Also dimly remember a health scare going on in the mid-60s about X-rays from color TVs...There was a big yah-yah about it, the "consumer" movement was in its infancy then...

I don't think there was any particular requirement for safety glass vs. rimband - the tube or tube/faceplate combination just had to meet certain limits on impact strength and dispersion of glass when imploded, I think. It's possible European color tube factories went to rimband directly when first opened, while the U.S. factories had to be adapted to the process.

I believe this set is fitted with simple PAL circuits. Simple PAL has no delay line but a tint (or hue) control.

- Eckhard

Yes.

Somebody, in this forum, affirmed there are no simple PAL TVs from industrial factorys ( not from craftsmen ), apart from Kuba and Telefunken sets with 11SP22 cathode ray tube.

Actually, according to Argeo Deotto, simple PAL was a flop, then following TVs adopted PAL delay; therefore there ARE some simple PAL TVs and Marco's set proveS that.

According to Marco, his PAL Portacolor makes some Hannover bars, more visible on yellow images; but we see two good rasters from his "new" PAL-Zenith, without Hannover bars, only some retrace lineS on the raster from "Cultura moderna" broadcast ( not the young lady ); therefore, supposing both the TVs are connected to the same aerial, pheraps the little one needs some adjustements ( synchro demodulators? ).
I have the schematic and some instructions for the technicians, with regard to the "Telecolor" ( a Telefunken simple PAL TV, pheraps made in Milan, with some writings meaning: "Volume", "Luminosità", "Colore", "1/2" on the VHF/UHF switch knob and Italian VHF channels "A,B,C,D...", and having 11SP22 cathode ray tube; in my opinion it is possible that it resembles Marco's simple PAL Portacolor ):smoke::tresbon:

Think you're right, Francesco. Also dimly remember a health scare going on in the mid-60s about X-rays from color TVs...There was a big yah-yah about it, the "consumer" movement was in its infancy then...

1) Yes, in a lot of Italian TVs from 50s there is a safety-glass who increaseS the contrast too; even in some European sets from 70s there is a similar device, a "plastic glass", almost black (!)
My parents had one of these TVs until 1982 ( a Siemens hybrid TV, with push - buttons tuning and four slider potentiometers, one of them for tone adjustement; now it appears only in a lot of photos:dunno:).

2) ...Is there in English any neologism as "consumIST" or sIMILAR?

...

According to what is on the brochure of the set, the tube has a sealed darkened glass on its faceplate. It doesn't seems a bonded type and it has not the classic yellow halo around the hedges. As we in Europe made wide use of push through picture tubes we had the need for tubes having the tube sides completely smooth. American tubes used to be placed inside a mask hiding corners.I heard about x rays issue on older tube type televisions but I think early color tvs all suffered from this kind of emission. Here in Europe there were mainly two kinds of horizontal and eht stages. One used a single horizontal/eht transformer and it also used a similar 6BK4 (PD500)tube to stabilize the hv. The other kind of circuit used separate horizontal and eht tranformers each with its proper driving tubes. This circuitry didn't need to use a high voltage stabilization tube. All this stuff was obviously put inside metal cages and the hv rectifier and ballast tube were commonly labeled with "x-ray" warning.
Gianni, I don't think simple pal was a flop, it was more a variant of NTSC. It is capable of good pictures. The main problem of the simple pal are the so called hannover bars that show up on particular colors such as yellow. Anyway who is
Argeo Deotto?
My Kuba portacolor has exactly the same chassis and picture tube as the Telefunken you mention but aesthetically it's quite similar to the original GE portacolor.

Somebody, in this forum, affirmed there are no simple PAL TVs from industrial factorys ( not from craftsmen ), apart from Kuba and Telefunken sets with 11SP22 cathode ray tube.

SONY for example built simple PAL receivers. Simple PAL with a good antenna input is as well as PAL with delay line. But you have to adjust the PAL hue control before.

- Eckhard

Yes.

in some European sets from 70s there is a similar device, a "plastic glass", almost black (!)


The dark glass or plastic of some 60s and 70s European sets was meant to avoid daylight reflections on the crt's face and improve the contrast, not for implosion safety purposes...

The dark glass was also very hard on the CRT as it had to be run at much higher brightness levels.

Actually, most european sets (both B/W and color) made after 1964 had rimband type integrally protected CRTs, the only exception is the Italian Philco factory, which continued to make sets with unprotected CRTs and separate safety glasses into the early 70s

Hi everybody! I finally got a genuine Zenith roundie! :banana:
It seems it has been modified to receive the Pal standard (the small unit just at the left of the chassis). I really can't wait to pick it up! From the pictures I seem to read it has a 24MC32 chassis. Is there everyone out there who can give advices and informations about this set? I would really get the best from it !!!
All the best
Marco
Hello!
this zenith color tv set you have bought up and bay? the seller was in northern italy remembrance....
fernando from florence.

I bet the chassis of this Zenith was assembled in Italy (or heavily modified here anyway)... because apart from the PAL color system, the set has to work with our 50 hz mains and our 625/50 system

if i'm right, there are probably Italian glass-encased capacitors in place of black beauties and wax caps under the chassis.

Francesco

certainly all color TV set zenith which were sold on the Italian market were assembled in Florence by the company elettronica M. Montagni. boxes arrived with all the components and assemble them to Montagni workers , I remember seeing in years 70 to 80 boxes packed full of components now abandoned stock, but with the flood of the river mugnone went all lost. Curiosity .... many of the workers who worked in assembling the Zenith color TV now working as technicians television in some Italian TV. in attach pic of mr Montagni, tv color Zenith in Montagni office, (1978) and Montagni building
fernando