Embracing VHS Hi-Fi as an audio medium only

[zenith2134]

Having read and re-read all the info I could gather on the subject, I've decided that hi-fi VHS sounds better to me than cassette. I know this type of thread should be at Audiokarma, but 1) It has already been discussed at length there and 2) the magnetic tape forum here could use a thread on this IMO.....And I'd wager a fair amount that people here have tried this before.

So, I am using two Sony decks both 4-head, one with an input control and one without--and have had nothing but great luck so far. Granted, my cassette gear is very lo-fi compared to what's available but I just played back a tape I made from vinyl, Night Ranger-Seven Wishes, and it is indistinguishable from the original on the same system (to my ears)...

I use SP although in theory EP can be used suitably (right? I mean, the frequency modulation is the same and the helical format SHOULD permit the signal to be demodded exactly the same....) always on fresh tape too....Just in case, so as to avoid drop-outs. I ran a crude test on the machine without the input pot with a signal generator...Seems like it's only ~1dB down at 25kHz...although I do not believe this is the case. In any situation, my cassette deck can NEVER match that, or the dynamics or the wow&flutter even with a CrO2 tape...

Stories? Suggestions? (I know, GET A R2R!!!)

[ceebee23]

From the late 80s into the early 2000s a friend of mine.. a semi professional DJ, used vhsHiFi for audio work.

He would prepare music for a whole party or gig on video cassette. Using SP or LP he would have a (relatively) high quality music platform (I won't mention the 9khz switching noise) that provided 4 or more hours of playtime.

He even used it to record live performances.

It was easier to use than either cassette or reel to reel tape and most venues had vcrs making it much easier to setup.

These days of course it is all done on portable hard disks or usb drives.

[Pete Deksnis]

In the late 1980s, once a week I would drive my daughter to the home of the first-chair cellist of the Philadelphia Orchestra for her lesson with his wife, who was also a sub in the orchestra. One evening I was making an audition tape of the wife on the piano accompanying my daughter on the cello; the tape was for college enterance purposes.

I had my first hi-fi VHS on the living room floor recording the goings-on in the music room, when the first chair came in to observe and chat. Explaining my setup to him included a statement, which I believed to be correct then and now: this VHS machine records audio with better characteristics than any recording Columbia ever made with Ormandy (Eugene Ormandy, the long-time conductor of the Philadelphians). Lower noise, wider frequency response, lower wow and flutter, and greater dynamic range.

By that time, RCA had taken the orchestra's recording contract from CBS (it was back in 1968 IIRC) and so I would expect the pro recorders RCA had were the latest and probably better than the old CBS units. Anybody familiar with pro recorder specs of that day who can confirm or debunk?

Pete

[zenith2134]

Hi I do not know what make the recorders were Pete, but I would certainly wager the guess that a late-eighties VHS hifi deck would DEFINITELY better pro-studio-tapegear of the sixties and seventies in terms of Signal to noise ratio and wow&flutter. A lot of course depends on tape formulation of the masters too but the helical scanned VHS system did improve notably in many areas as you have noted above. Nothing to scoff at IMO....I have very good results even with a mediocre deck.

[Trance88]

I think video cassettes are better for audio than video personally. I just wish I could get rid of that slight hum that the VCR implements into recordings though.

[Findm-Keepm]

Technics SV-P100 VHS Audio Recorder/Player. Rare but spectacular. I had one, and I traded it for a Compaq computer in the late 90s. The thing worked, but seldom ate tapes and needed some TLC.

There's scarce info on these, and I once saw one on eBay in 2003 listed as an "audio only VCR" It sold to some (presumably) collector for $790 plus shipping.

Cheers,

[eea123]

This sounds right. Cassettes were like 55db no NR, 65 with Dobly B and maybe 70+ with Dolby C. Straight head VHS HiFi was at least 70db. You probably could add an outbound dBX box to boost that even further. The TEAC 2000XR 1/4" reel to reel with built in dBX claimed something like 90dB S/N.

I understood tape speed to be the big key to good recordings. Reel to reel at 15ips = the best. 7-1/2 and 3-3/4 ips degraded the sound. Weren't cassettes like 1-7/8ips and only 1/8" wide? If that holds, which I'm pretty sure it does, you'll want to use SP not EP for VHS HiFi recordings. Seemed like alignment issues were a drawback to using VHS HiFi and reel to reel units were well established with audiofiles. Neither format was moblie. And then, we enter the digital age with CD, DAT, CD-R, ...

[Barry777]

VHS Hi-Fi is fully capable of reproducing the full human hearing range, and then some. When you figure that the video heads spin at 1800 RPM, and the fact that the tape is in contact with roughly 75% of the head drum, that translates to some pretty heavy inches-per-second. As mentioned previously, Hi-Fi units are much more critical in terms of mechanical alignment to avoid dropouts, which can make interchangeability somewhat risky.

Another nice thing about VHS Hi-Fi is that it leaves the linear audio tracks free for other uses - time code, narration, audio cues, etc. One important point is that a video signal should be fed in also while recording, as this is your best timing reference. This will prevent any speed variations and keep the machine locked in better. Any video signal (even just black) will work fine.

[eea123]

Good to know on the video. The public radio station engineer I worked at in the late 80s was considering switching over to VHS HiFi from reel to reel for their recording of delayed broadcasts off the PBS sat feed. He mentioned that he was looking at some sort of outbound digital converter upstream of a standard VHS HiFi deck, I suppose the pseudo forerunner of the D-VHS medium sans the video?

Can't offer much more than that, I moved over to the student radio station after that semester and back to Ampex 15ips RTR. I played a little bit with recording on our home VHS HiFi in the early 90s, but the wife didn't appreciate the patch cables criss-crossing from the TV cabinet to the stereo and back again.

I've just dropped so far away from recording anything analog since the advent of computer CD burners. I have a Yamaha CDR-1000S in my rack that I've haven't made one CD on since I bought a computer CD burner in '03. CDR-Audio blanks will probably go way before I know it.

[Chad Hauris]

In the 90's I used VHS Hi-Fi to record radio programs for 6 hours at SLP and for the most part got great sound quality...the problem was that there was often drop-outs on the tape and the sound would change back to the really low quality linear audio too often. I eventually quit doing it because the drop-outs were too annoying. Maybe on the higher tape speed of SP it wouldn't be such a problem.

[holmesuser01]

I had a Fisher FVH-840 HiFi deck back in the late 1980's. I made several recordings of the local symphony with it recording the output of my mics and mixer. The recordings sound fine, except for the occasional glitch in the tape.

I hava a pair of early 90's Sony decks now. I still like to make live recordings with them.

[AUdubon5425]

I have a Canon stereo VCR (circa 1985) that has line inputs and l/r recording level sliders.

[ctc17]

I used to use hifi vhs to record bands, live performances, djs etc. I think the best part besides the quality was the later vcrs had automatic audio leveling/compression. No trying to keep consistent levels, plug it in press rec and forget it for 6 hours.

[jimiclones]

The problem with hi-fi vhs audio, is you will get a 60 hrz hum on playback, if you play the tape in a different deck than the one used to record it.

[Combwork]

I can't remember how long ago I had this (about a year after SVHS arrived in the U.K.) but the Grundig had audio recording meters for each channel.