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  #31  
Old 05-27-2010, 06:20 PM
pugs5061 pugs5061 is offline
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I know here in Chicago, AM is going nowhere in the forseeable future (next couple of years anyways). AM stations account for a large portion of the top 10. I also heard somewhere (rumor only) that with the demise of the smaller stations, large stations like WGN and WBBM would be allowed to increase their power even more making them almost nationwide. This is the first I've heard of the demise of the whole band. Although programming won't be local for a lot of you, at least it won't be these computer operated stations where there is not even a human in the studio.
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Old 05-27-2010, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Wow! What a great location for Dxing!
I just looked up the location on "Radio Locator" and found that you should be in range of something like 37 stations... but with mostly weak reception. More FMs than AMs within range. Great place for a R-390!
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...&x=20&y=4&sid=
jr
I'm not far from Evening Shade, and Dxing conditions are great. I pick up all kinds of stuff out of several states on my radios, I've even picked up a station out of Window Rock, AZ a few times on my DX-160.
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  #33  
Old 05-27-2010, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pugs5061 View Post
I know here in Chicago, AM is going nowhere in the forseeable future (next couple of years anyways). AM stations account for a large portion of the top 10. I also heard somewhere (rumor only) that with the demise of the smaller stations, large stations like WGN and WBBM would be allowed to increase their power even more making them almost nationwide. This is the first I've heard of the demise of the whole band. Although programming won't be local for a lot of you, at least it won't be these computer operated stations where there is not even a human in the studio.
Local?..I love hearing about the blizzards and the road conditions as I sit in comfort down here!

You mean that I'll get these even better than I do now?

Don't forget about WLS either!

Is there anyplace that can't get Chicago stations??
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  #34  
Old 05-28-2010, 05:11 AM
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I can get Chicago fine here in south central PA. Don and Roma in the morning, etc. etc. I can almost always get WBBM and WLS. Early winter mornings in the car I would switch from them to WWL New Orleans, and even WHO, Des Moines sometimes. But could not always get KDKA Pittsburgh. Back in the day when WLS played music, remember "Double-you, ELL, ess: Larry LUjack!"
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  #35  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:59 AM
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WLS-FM still plays music (oldies) on the Internet at 947trueoldies.com. WLS-AM 890 flipped to talk several years ago; the oldies (which were top-40 in the '50s-'60s) went to WLS-FM 94.7 shortly before or shortly after that.

I like oldies, as I grew up in the late '60s-'70s, so I bookmarked WLS-FM's website immediately after hearing of it some time ago. I couldn't listen to the stream until now, however, due to the station using a streaming provider and music player at the time (last year or the year prior) that simply would not work with Firefox 2. WLS-FM's new player, however, works fine with FF2; I just heard Bill Haley and the Comets' "Rock around the Clock" on 94.7 a few minutes ago.

Cleveland had two excellent top-40 AM stations in the '60s and '70s: 50kW WKYC-AM 1100 and 5kW WIXY 1260. The former was operated by NBC at the time and had some of the wildest DJs I've ever heard (I particularly remember "Big Jack" Jackson Armstrong, who had a program on 1100 and later on 1260; unfortunately, he passed away recently in North Carolina).

WIXY 1260 had some wild characters spinning wax at the time as well, but that station's downfall was that its 5kW signal could not be heard well east of Cleveland; the further east of Cleveland you went, the weaker the signal became, until by the time you were well outside the Cleveland area (eastern Lake County and beyond) you couldn't hear the signal at all. I was living in a Cleveland suburb at the west end of Lake County at the time and was able to hear the station 24/7; however, where I live now, at the eastern end of the county, I can barely hear the signal in the daytime. Since 1260 is now Radio Disney, however, I have no use for the station (or any Cleveland AM station, for that matter); 1260's format these days is geared towards young teenagers, and I am almost 54 years old.

WKYC 1100 and its FM arm, WKYC-FM, were sold from NBC in 1970; both stations have had several ownership changes since then. The AM station went through several callsign and format changes, eventually becoming talk radio WTAM 1100 some years ago; the FM station also had several changes in calls and formats, winding up in 1982 as WMJI "Majic 105.7" oldies -- the call sign and format it has had since 1981. I remember WKYC-AM's wild DJs, as I mentioned, and also, since the station was an affiliate of the (now defunct) NBC radio network at the time, it picked up a weekend variety program known as "Monitor Beacon" that was simulcast over that station and WKYC-FM.

Monitor went off the air in 1975, by which time WKYC-AM had changed calls to WWWE (3WE) 1100 and was playing a middle-of-the-road music format. WKYC-FM played automated beautiful music (formerly known as "elevator music" because it was also played in elevators at the time) from the time it was sold until about the mid-'70s. WKYC-FM then became an adult rock station and remained with that format until 1981, when it was flipped to oldies (now known as "classic hits") and the callsign changed to WMJI. The station (and presumably WTAM1100, formerly WWWE, as well) is presently owned by Clear Channel Communications of San Antonio, Texas.

WKYC-AM 1100 was a true clear-channel station, running 50kW day and night. The only other station on 1100 all night long was then-KFAX in San Francisco, California, also a 50kW clear-channel operation. The other small stations on 1100, and there were a few in smaller towns and suburbs of major cities, were required to sign off at sundown to protect the 50kW operations from what is known as "skywave" interference. Station CKLW, 800 kHz (The Big Eight) in Windsor, Ontario, Canada was also a clear-channel flamethrower, being the only station on 800 kHz from sundown to sunrise. As with WKYC, et al., CKLW's 800-kHz frequency was occupied during the day by smaller stations which were required to sign off at sundown local time.

The FCC abolished clear channels about 25 years ago. The new rules now state that former clear channel stations must limit their coverage to, at most, 750 miles (directional at night if necessary), day and night. The reason for this was so that low-power local-service stations, presently daytime-only, operating on the former clear channels could serve their areas full-time if they desired (and had the money to) do so. Today, the new regulations state that former daytime-only stations operating on the former clear channels may operate full time, but they must decrease their power output by a certain level after local sundown time; as well, many stations must now use sharply directional signal patterns, attained by transmitting from one or more directional towers, separate from the station's daytime arrays. This is especially true of stations that operate 50kW during the day and were formerly licensed for dawn-to-dusk operation. If these stations go to full-time operation on a former clear channel (or any other frequency in the AM broadcast band), however, they must either reduce power to 5kW or less with a directional signal pattern after sundown or else sign off after local sundown time. A sports-talk station in Cleveland on 850 kHz recently increased its daytime power to 50kW, but must go to 4.7 kW and directional antenna after sundown Eastern time; a Detroit ESPN sports station on 1270 kHz did the same thing and operates under the same rules since it increased its power to 50kW daytime. Given the close proximity of Detroit to Cleveland, however, I cannot for the life of me see how the former's WXYT-1270 can operate 50kW during the day without interfering with Cleveland's WWMK-1260 (10kW day/5kW night); after all, the two stations are adjacent to each other on the dial. Unless there is a 5-kHz (+/-) guard band between adjacent AM frequencies, I cannot imagine these stations operating this way without one causing serious interference problems for the other in daytime, as the Cleveland station runs 10kW days/5kW nights; the Detroit station could drown it out without half trying since it runs 50kW 24-7.
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  #36  
Old 05-28-2010, 11:47 AM
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Sam Cogley Sam Cogley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
The FCC abolished clear channels about 25 years ago. The new rules now state that former clear channel stations must limit their coverage to, at most, 750 miles (directional at night if necessary), day and night. The reason for this was so that low-power local-service stations, presently daytime-only, operating on the former clear channels could serve their areas full-time if they desired (and had the money to) do so. Today, the new regulations state that former daytime-only stations operating on the former clear channels may operate full time, but they must decrease their power output by a certain level after local sundown time; as well, many stations must now use sharply directional signal patterns, attained by transmitting from one or more directional towers, separate from the station's daytime arrays. This is especially true of stations that operate 50kW during the day and were formerly licensed for dawn-to-dusk operation. If these stations go to full-time operation on a former clear channel (or any other frequency in the AM broadcast band), however, they must either reduce power to 5kW or less with a directional signal pattern after sundown or else sign off after local sundown time. A sports-talk station in Cleveland on 850 kHz recently increased its daytime power to 50kW, but must go to 4.7 kW and directional antenna after sundown Eastern time; a Detroit ESPN sports station on 1270 kHz did the same thing and operates under the same rules since it increased its power to 50kW daytime. Given the close proximity of Detroit to Cleveland, however, I cannot for the life of me see how the former's WXYT-1270 can operate 50kW during the day without interfering with Cleveland's WWMK-1260 (10kW day/5kW night); after all, the two stations are adjacent to each other on the dial. Unless there is a 5-kHz (+/-) guard band between adjacent AM frequencies, I cannot imagine these stations operating this way without one causing serious interference problems for the other in daytime, as both stations operate 50kW sunrise to sundown.
KMOX 1120 in St. Louis is still listed as a 50kW, non-directional station. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=9638

As is WTAM on 1100. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=59595

KFAX is still 50kW day and night, but is licensed for a directional antenna array. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=59595

Additionally, according to the Wikipedia article on clear-channel stations, they're not prohibited from broadcasting past 750 miles, they just don't have signal protection outside that radius. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station
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Last edited by Sam Cogley; 05-28-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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  #37  
Old 05-28-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
I cannot for the life of me see how the former's WXYT-1270 can operate 50kW during the day without interfering with Cleveland's WWMK-1260 (10kW day/5kW night); after all, the two stations are adjacent to each other on the dial. Unless there is a 5-kHz (+/-) guard band between adjacent AM frequencies, I cannot imagine these stations operating this way without one causing serious interference problems for the other in daytime, as both stations operate 50kW sunrise to sundown.
WXYT transmits using 9 tower directional array focusing most of its power to the north.

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?list=0&facid=28627

Day plot:
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Da...7235-78705.pdf

Night plot:
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Da...7235-78706.pdf

Also, there is no 750 mile limit set by the FCC for former clear channel stations. This radius is the "protected" zone, meaning that other stations may transmit on that frequency as long as their signal strength is within certain limits at the edge of the 750 mile protected zone. Many former 50KW Clear channel enjoy a considerable "bonus coverage" today, well above the 750 mile protected zone.
jr
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  #38  
Old 05-28-2010, 01:43 PM
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I can recieve KMOX here also but what really suprised me one night was when I was able to get WWJ/720/Detroit! That area of the band is crammed at night.

Maybe my G500 Trans-oceanic helped a little though...!!
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  #39  
Old 05-28-2010, 02:45 PM
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The FCC may write the regulations it wishes, signals that bounce on the ionosphere
will sometimes go very far, sometimes not that far. AM DXing is probably more
interesting than listening to actual program content. I can't wait until the sunset!
By the way, there's a thread on the vanishing AM stations, I will look it up and
post the link.

Here it is:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=242866

Last edited by electroking; 05-28-2010 at 02:48 PM. Reason: aded link
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  #40  
Old 05-28-2010, 03:18 PM
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Well, haul 'er on over one night!
Nah, you need an R-392, the "portable" version of the R-390...Makes a dandy heated campstool, & you can stick one under a corner of yr Jeep to hold it up, if you've lost a jack...Supposedly, they'll work underwater, but even I'M not stupid enuff to test that myth...(grin)
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  #41  
Old 05-28-2010, 04:29 PM
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Hemingray said:
"Well, haul 'er on over one night!"

Sandy_G said:
"Nah, you need an R-392, the "portable" version of the R-390...Makes a dandy heated campstool, & you can stick one under a corner of yr Jeep to hold it up, if you've lost a jack...Supposedly, they'll work underwater, but even I'M not stupid enuff to test that myth...(grin)"


Ahhh, Yes! the R-392 otherwise the "R-390 lite"... perhaps only 50 Lb. instead of 90-95, but still a bit much to drag over 2000 miles or so for an evenings Dxing... sounds like fun, though.

jr
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  #42  
Old 05-29-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electroking View Post
The FCC may write the regulations it wishes, signals that bounce on the ionosphere
will sometimes go very far, sometimes not that far. AM DXing is probably more
interesting than listening to actual program content. I can't wait until the sunset!
By the way, there's a thread on the vanishing AM stations, I will look it up and
post the link.

Here it is:

http://www.videokarma.org/showthread.php?t=242866

The new regulations certainly can be confusing; my thanks to jr_tech, et al. who set me straight on the 750-mile rule. (I will print that information and file it for future reference.) That explains why I can often hear WBAP-820 in Dallas, WWL-870 in New Orleans, et al. here in northern Ohio after sundown (both stations are well over 1000 miles from my home), and without using an outdoor antenna -- just my Zenith C845 (probably the best AM DXing radio I've ever owned) with its built-in Wavemagnet antenna. Even with many smaller stations permitted to operate with lower power and/or directional signal patterns at night, the 750-mile rule prevents them from interfering with former clear-channel 50kW stations that very likely were there years or decades before any of the smaller local stations were even thought of, and therefore have absolute priority on the frequency in question.

AM DXing can indeed be more interesting than the program content of the stations heard, especially nowadays when many AM stations carry network or satellite programming (particularly talk shows) that is repeated across the US. I think most AM/FM DXers are much more interested in hearing the identification signal of a station they just picked up than they are interested in the programming itself. In many cases, the station ID and local commercials are the only original facets of AM radio programming, as these are always unique to the area in which the station is located.

It wouldn't surprise me either if most big 50kW US stations are running on skeleton crews or less after midnight, when the station is running satellite programming. A small 0.5kW day/0.042kW (42 watts) night former day-only station near where I grew up is now running almost 100 percent satellite-delivered talk programming, as it has been since about five years ago; it would not surprise me if there is only one engineer on duty after midnight and/or after normal business hours, as it doesn't take many people (I don't think, anyway) to operate a radio station programmed almost entirely from satellite feeds. The station near my hometown, in fact, is probably close to 100-percent automated.

A 1kW day/0.5kW night local station about five miles from me is probably, even likely, running 100 percent satellite programming as well, having dropped local programming several years ago. This is the station I've mentioned in previous posts that runs overmodulated black gospel music 24-7; they probably get the programming from one or more satellites and have very few actual people in the studio at any time, except of course for transmitter technicians and the folks who oversee the satellite operations.
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  #43  
Old 05-29-2010, 03:41 PM
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The AM and FM dials are pretty full here in Seattle, with nighttime AM DX stations regularly heard from as far south as KNX in LA on 1070 and as far east as the CBC on 540 in Saskatchewan (can't remember the callsign at the moment).

I'm mainly an AM listener but recently decided to give the commercial FM stations a listen. I couldn't believe how many commercials they carry now! I mean, in an hour they probably play 35 minutes of music and 25 of commercials. I don't remember it being like this 20 or even 10 years ago. Guess they're trying to make up the lost ad revenue (i.e. lower rates) by having more advertisers.

AM is probably just as bad, but somehow it's less jarring to hear talk constantly interrupted than music.
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Old 05-29-2010, 04:10 PM
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Jeffhs said:
"my Zenith C845 (probably the best AM DXing radio I've ever owned) with its built-in Wavemagnet"

Just for grins, have you ever tried AM Dxing with your Icom ham transceiver? I believe that most of these units contain a "general coverage" receiver which will tune the broadcast band. Connected to a loop antenna or length of wire, a modern Icom might well do better than a 50 year old (or so) consumer product. I use my Icom 8500 a lot for AM Dx... The sensitivity, lack of spurious responses, bandwidth choices and upper as well as lower SSB modes provide a definite advantage over a standard "consumer grade" radio for Dxing.

Jeffhs said:
"it would not surprise me if there is only one engineer on duty after midnight and/or after normal business hours, as it doesn't take many people (I don't think, anyway) to operate a radio station programmed almost entirely from satellite feeds."

The situation may be even worse than you describe. The satellite receivers are usually run by a computer and some of the programs may even have been downloaded in advance, and are just playing off of the computers' hard drive. No need for anybody to be there.
The chief engineer or contract engineer is likely asleep, but with a cell phone turned on... if any of the stations' operating parameters fall outside of pre-programmed limits, the cell phone will provide instant alert, and in many cases the problem may be corrected through the internet control panel displayed on the phone.

jr
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  #45  
Old 05-29-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiodayz View Post
The AM and FM dials are pretty full here in Seattle, with nighttime AM DX stations regularly heard from as far south as KNX in LA on 1070 and as far east as the CBC on 540 in Saskatchewan (can't remember the callsign at the moment).

I'm mainly an AM listener but recently decided to give the commercial FM stations a listen. I couldn't believe how many commercials they carry now! I mean, in an hour they probably play 35 minutes of music and 25 of commercials. I don't remember it being like this 20 or even 10 years ago. Guess they're trying to make up the lost ad revenue (i.e. lower rates) by having more advertisers.

AM is probably just as bad, but somehow it's less jarring to hear talk constantly interrupted than music.
Seattle is only about 150 miles from Vancouver, British Columbia; you should be able to hear AM stations from the latter city quite well most of the time (I found out the location of Vancouver while watching the Olympics earlier this year).

You are correct as to the insane amount of commercials on AM and FM radio stations nowadays. It is the same in every major city in the US, no exceptions. I don't listen to radio (AM or FM) much anymore for just that reason, listening instead to Internet radio and my own music collection, a good part of which is on my computer's hard drive; I access it through Nullsoft's Winamp media player and have my computer's sound card connected to my stereo system. The sound quality, IMHO, is excellent.

Talk radio is the reason I gave up on AM, except occasionally for DXing. I am old enough (almost 54) to remember AM music radio (I grew up listening to every rock and roll radio station in Cleveland, not to mention powerhouses of the time the likes of 66WNBC in New York, 89WLS in Chicago [now playing oldies in streaming audio at trueoldies947.com], "The Big Eight" CKLW-AM in Windsor, Ontario, "Big Ten" WCFL 1000 in Chicago, et al.) The oldies (now called "classic hits") in most major cities are now on FM--on 105.7 in Cleveland and also, where I live today (33 miles east of downtown and within a mile of the south shore of Lake Erie), on a station one county east of here on 102.5.

However, that's progress. I like oldies well enough, now being old enough to remember when those songs were top-40, that I bookmarked the websites of WLS-FM and also KOOL-FM 105 in Phoenix, Arizona. That's one great thing about the Internet -- many radio stations now stream their programming online, so one never has to be far away from his or her favorite music. The only thing I don't like about streaming audio is that, to listen to at least one of my favorite stations' streams (wouldn't you know it, the classic hits station in Cleveland) requires a media player I don't have and cannot use on my 10-year-old computer, running Windows 98se. Oh well. WLS-FM's streaming oldies and those from the Phoenix station, IMHO, more than make up for that.

BTW, from where you are in Seattle, I would think you would hear AM stations just about everywhere on the West Coast and the southwestern US as well. Even within your own state you should be able to hear stations from Spokane and other areas as well, unless the Seattle area is not conducive to DXing by virtue of mountains, hills, etc. California is especially bad in this regard; I read years ago in an old issue of the (now defunct) Popular Electronics magazine a letter to the editor from someone who had lived for decades in the Los Angeles area, and had never heard FM radio stations from any other state. I couldn't believe the L.A. area is that isolated from the rest of the West Coast (or the Western US, for that matter) as far as radio signals are concerned.

Some of my best DX catches on radio were, about 25 years ago, station KOA-850 in Denver, which I heard one early Monday morning when one of the Cleveland AM stations was off the air for maintenance, and WEAT-FM (yes, FM) in West Palm Beach, Florida, forty years ago. I was 14 years old at the time and was listening to a Cleveland FM station that summer afternoon, when the station suddenly went off the air. Imagine my surprise when, about a minute later, WEAT-FM came booming in, in stereo yet, just as clearly as if it were right next door.

On television, I have had several good DX catches, all before I had cable. The best one, I think, however, was WPBT-TV channel 2 in Miami. I lived in an eastern Cleveland suburb at the time, and one summer day about 33 years ago, I idly turned my TV dial to channel 2 and saw the Miami station, as clear as any of the locals in Cleveland. The weird part was that I continued to receive this station, with the same great picture quality, for the next five days in a row! I didn't have a fancy antenna, either--just a pair of rabbit ears atop the set.

I also had a surprise one afternoon, 30+ years ago, when I turned on the TV in my living room, put it on channel 2, and saw--to my dumbfounded surprise--a station ID from a television station in Cheyenne, Wyoming. The TV was hooked up to an antenna pointed at the Cleveland television transmitters, which are all southwest of the city; well, there must have been a wide-open path to the southwest well beyond Cleveland that day, as I was getting TV from Wyoming, Texas, Oklahoma, just about every station in the southwest on channel 2. I did get one Texas station from the Beaumont/Port Arthur, Area on channel 4 that summer as well, but no other spectacular DX on any other channel except for one day (very early morning) in the '70s, when I picked up channel 5 from Saginaw, Michigan, about a half-hour before channel 5 in Cleveland signed on. I also got Saginaw's channel 25 about an hour or so before the local PBS station began its schedule of broadcasting.
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Last edited by Jeffhs; 05-29-2010 at 05:23 PM.
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