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Old 05-20-2007, 07:40 PM
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Youtube Fred Astaire 58' clip.

Pretty cool! NBC peacock and all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKMxqCQygxs

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Old 05-20-2007, 08:39 PM
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Check out those swivel seats!
I wanna see the whole show now.I love Fred Astaire.
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Old 05-20-2007, 08:54 PM
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Just wondering why the quality of this clip, the color, the clarity, is so superior to pretty much anything shot on tape for TV in the 70'-80's?

Is it just because it's shrunk down to a 2" picture or is it really that much better?
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Old 05-20-2007, 09:56 PM
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RCA's tweaks to the color videotape format. These were later curbed by the FCC, but there are some absolutely stunning examples that still exist.

-Kevin

Incidentally, that "Evening with..." montage was cut together by Kris Trexler from a copy of the repeat telecast tape... nice job on the editing!
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:08 PM
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Also on YouTube from the show is Jonah Jones performing "Mack The Knife":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63vUpLYgtXw
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Old 05-20-2007, 11:48 PM
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I would not say who posted that video. Fred's widow wants her cut from all of Fred's stuff. Lawyers could come a knockin!!!! seriously!!!

It is a great clip. The TV looks like a CTC9. That man had some kind of class. The music is just awesome.

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Old 05-21-2007, 12:40 AM
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I'm not aware of any changes the FCC forced on RCA and Ampex when they built color quad recorders. In fact a later Ampex AVR1 super highband deck would have a much better picture then a low band early color tube based VTR. It would be interesting if there were changes made to the NTSC standards after 1954. If someone has information please share it.
The color would have to do with the cameras etc.. not the VTR. Everyone worked very had to make the tape version look the same as the live version.
I think this show was the first recorded on tape for later broadcast color production. At least the first major color production to be produced that way
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:20 PM
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No, it's actually a standardization that was forced on NBC/RCA after they'd been using color tape for about 2 years.... as is their wont, NBC's engineers had been making tweaks to the color system, and eventually the FCC put a stop to it, saying they had to use exactly the same specs as everyone else.

That's why NBC tapes from that era require a specially-modified color module to really decode properly. I saw one of the modules, just last week. And I might add, when you see one of those tapes properly decoded, it's amazing!

The Astaire tapes (and the rights surrounding them) are a story unto themselves, from what I've been told...

-Kevin
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:01 PM
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Did NBC use a different encoder for the TK41's? The decoder would be in the monitor/receiver not the VTR unless I'm missing something. The only thing that was added to make a quad VCR color was a TBC for the color signal.
It was possible for a B/W recorder to record color it just could not play it back without the color TBC at least that's what I remember. It's been a while since I have ran a quad. Ampex would have had some say in the color standards for qaud as they were the market leader.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:06 PM
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It's hard to believe that the FCC had anything to do with videotape standards. I would have thought this would be hashed out (possibly with some acrimony) within SMPTE.

On the other hand, I have heard and do believe that RCA had particular adjustments to the various recording parameters (I would guess cneter frequency, deviation, and pre-emphasis) that improved the color performance.

As to the quality of these clips, I think it has to do both with the quality of playback (note no visible quad head banding) and restoration (noise reduction), and the low resolution of the posts, which appear to be appropriately filtered in the process of resolution reduction.

Is there some record of the FCC ordering standardization of tape parameters? Always in the past, manufacturers have tried to avoid involving government agencies except where it's obviously necessary to establish a broadcast service. This means the FCC gets into the act in specifying radiated signals, but never in terms of studio practice.
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Old 05-21-2007, 10:15 PM
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Great Clips. I would like to see the whole show too.
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Old 05-21-2007, 11:24 PM
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I don't think the FCC had any say in video tape as long as the time base was correct. It was between the networks/customers and Ampex. If there were any changes to the format the FCC would not be interested as long as the station had the correct signal. In this case RCA made the VTR using the Ampex recording system with a color timebase corrector. Ampex had not released one as they were still working it out with RCA because of the color patents. Ampex let RCA make VTR's as long as Ampex could make one able to record color. At least that's how I understand it. I'm sure some stations did make changes in the format as time went on, changed head amps, TBCs, etc..It would only matter if the tapes were to play on a different deck that it could be a problem and that is something the FCC would not be interested in. In fact there was a big effort to make it so the tapes would play on any deck that made Ampex and RCA get along so their customers would be happy.
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