Queue up for a digital set top box coupon for CT-100, etc...

[markthefixer]

You guys have got me on tenterhooks, checking for my coupons daily, practically assaulting the mailman every day as he stuffs the box.... east coast, west coast.... midwest???

Of course I already have the panasonic dmr-ez27 dvd recorder with atsc tuner going in a test setup, but the tv I use a lot (as I am sitting online) only has rf input, and it has OTA interference ( I posted on that interference years ago)...

The interference I have been fighting the last few years (switching power supplies somewhere nearby, when it's bad it can go all the way up to channel 23) doesn't bother the digital (so far).

I thought that the digital reception was better as far as extracting signal from noise, based on the fact that I have a beat up antenna with LOUSY VHF-LO band performance (54-88mhz), until I found out that ALL the DTV broadcasts except WBBM (on the channel 3 frequency) were on the UHF (19-53, 500-710mhz) band and I was comparing apples to potatos.......

Next I found out that WBBM here (atv=2) (dtv=3) is moving it's DTV transmission up to channel 12 (204-210mhz) on the feb 2009 changeover date. (Thanks to Paul R. of WBBM!!)

So THEN I had hopes that I could get away my beat up antenna or even ONLY a UHF antenna setup here in Chicago, after the feb 2009 changeover, but my latest information has the WLS (atv=7, 174-180mhz) channel 52 DTV dropping DOWN to channel 7!!!
Everything else IS and will STAY UHF....

I have TERRIBLE multipath on atv channel 7... I'm dreading how digital on that frequency will do... I know... aim AWAY from the transmitter....

If anybody is interested in the Chicago area TV channel assignments DTV and ATV, both current and future, I'll post them....

edit: one other tidbit, the LOW POWER ATV stations DO NOT have to change over.... and very few boxes are rumored to have switchable pass through depending upon channel assignments.... Thus those that view low power community based tv stations or the remote translator broadcasts have got even more fiddling around to do.... The low powered tv community tried to make that a requirement for the boxes, but it was made into a permitted or non-disqualifying feature of the boxes.

Originally Posted by markthefixer

You guys have got me on tenterhooks, checking for my coupons daily, practically assaulting the mailman every day as he stuffs the box.... east coast, west coast.... midwest???

Of course I already have the panasonic dmr-ez27 dvd recorder with atsc tuner going in a test setup, but the tv I use a lot (as I am sitting online) only has rf input, and it has OTA interference ( I posted on that interference years ago)...

The interference I have been fighting the last few years (switching power supplies somewhere nearby, when it's bad it can go all the way up to channel 23) doesn't bother the digital (so far).

I thought that the digital reception was better as far as extracting signal from noise, based on the fact that I have a beat up antenna with LOUSY VHF-LO band performance (54-88mhz), until I found out that ALL the DTV broadcasts except WBBM (on the channel 3 frequency) were on the UHF (19-53, 500-710mhz) band and I was comparing apples to potatos.......

Next I found out that WBBM here (atv=2) (dtv=3) is moving it's DTV transmission up to channel 12 (204-210mhz) on the feb 2009 changeover date. (Thanks to Paul R. of WBBM!!)

So THEN I had hopes that I could get away my beat up antenna or even ONLY a UHF antenna setup here in Chicago, after the feb 2009 changeover, but my latest information has the WLS (atv=7, 174-180mhz) channel 52 DTV dropping DOWN to channel 7!!!
Everything else IS and will STAY UHF....

I have TERRIBLE multipath on atv channel 7... I'm dreading how digital on that frequency will do... I know... aim AWAY from the transmitter....

If anybody is interested in the Chicago area TV channel assignments DTV and ATV, both current and future, I'll post them....

edit: one other tidbit, the LOW POWER ATV stations DO NOT have to change over.... and very few boxes are rumored to have switchable pass through depending upon channel assignments.... Thus those that view low power community based tv stations or the remote translator broadcasts have got even more fiddling around to do.... The low powered tv community tried to make that a requirement for the boxes, but it was made into a permitted or non-disqualifying feature of the boxes.

FYI - I have a small Winegard UHF antenna hooked up to my Sharp Aquos and it draws in everything BUT channel 2. Channels 5, 7, 9, and 11 come in just fine, so you may be able to get away with your beat up antenna after all.

The Chicago stations (and all cities), digital and analog, along with the compass heading of the transmitters, can be found at www.antennaweb.org
Just click on Choose and Antenna, enter your Zipcode (or street address for a more exact look) and go.

[markthefixer]

Originally Posted by sleddogman

FYI - I have a small Winegard UHF antenna hooked up to my Sharp Aquos and it draws in everything BUT channel 2. Channels 5, 7, 9, and 11 come in just fine, so you may be able to get away with your beat up antenna after all.

The Chicago stations (and all cities), digital and analog, along with the compass heading of the transmitters, can be found at www.antennaweb.org
Just click on Choose and Antenna, enter your Zipcode (or street address for a more exact look) and go.

Yup, it's a nice site, I didn't include WXFT (atv=60, dtv=59, new dtv = 50) or the low power stations it dug up... I have used that site, or a similar one, a few times in the past... I dug quite a bit of info out of the publically accessible portion of the FCC online database...

[jpdylon]

I tried out one of my boxes tonight and I am hooked. I live in a pit and could only get about 2-3 watchable stations via analog. Noise in the signal ans overall weak signals made most stations unwatchable

Now with the DTV tuner and a plain ol' UHF antenna I can pick up 7 stations no problem without glitches. The insignia box has a signal meter that lets you adjust the antenna for best reception.

It's very difficult to combat multipath in either case of digital vs analog. If it is severe enough, it won't be watchable in either digital or analog. I have two stations here that aren't even viewable because of the MP problems. Digital was only visable for a few seconds at a time. I suspect a better antenna that is directional would have cured those problems.

[Pete Deksnis]

Originally Posted by jpdylon

I live in a pit and could only get about 2-3 watchable stations via analog. Noise in the signal ans overall weak signals made most stations unwatchable

Now with the DTV tuner and a plain ol' UHF antenna I can pick up 7 stations no problem without glitches.

Good to hear a positive.

I too am quite pleased with reception performance of the Magnavox; it latched on to marginal ATSC signals far better than either of my hi-def sets w/built-in ATSC tuners. I'm wondering if there's a technical advantage when the ATSC tuner does not have to feed a decoder generating 1080i or 720p hi-def.

Pete

[Pete Deksnis]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Going in baseband from a digital source will probably give you better color transients on HD programs than even the CT-100 I/Q demods would normally do on NTSC, due to the chroma subcarrier being double-sideband and developed from wideband color difference signals.

Perhaps the double-sideband signal explains another phenomenon of the Magnavox converter box (now that the CT-100 chroma amp is being hit with two full wideband sidebands): only about 20 degrees rotation of the COLOR control on the CT-100 provides adequate color, where one-half to full CW rotation is not uncommon with standard NTSC reception.

[jpdylon]

Absolutely. HD signals require massive amounts of bandwidth for both the hi-res picture and the 5.1 surround sound (if encoded with it) Therefore it is VERY sensitive to signal quality. HD over the air can quickly diminish if the signal isn't clear and strong.

Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis

Good to hear a positive.

I too am quite pleased with reception performance of the Magnavox; it latched on to marginal ATSC signals far better than either of my hi-def sets w/built-in ATSC tuners. I'm wondering if there's a technical advantage when the ATSC tuner does not have to feed a decoder generating 1080i or 720p hi-def.

Pete

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis

Good to hear a positive.

I'm wondering if there's a technical advantage when the ATSC tuner does not have to feed a decoder generating 1080i or 720p hi-def.

Pete

Pete,

Output format is totally irrelevant - what you are seeing is differences in the tuner/demodulator/equalizer, designs of which have improved over time.

Also, a certain minimum performance is required for boxes to be coupon-eligible. This is about the only time in the history of consumer electronics that the industry has willingly accepted performance criteria, having realized that it MUST work or the DTV transition is a bust.

However: A good reason for NOT doing this across the board for all sets is that it freezes the performance at a particular level, whereas unregulated products have a history of finding constantly improving performance/cost trade-offs. It is never known for sure if all the regulations applied are equally important, or if certain criteria could be less strict in order to improve another area, giving an over-all better result in the field. The free market can find those things.

- Wayne

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis

Perhaps the double-sideband signal explains another phenomenon of the Magnavox converter box (now the CT-100 chroma amp is being hit with two full wideband sidebands): only about 20 degrees rotation of the COLOR control on the CT-100 provides adequate color, where one-half to full CW rotation is not uncommon with standard NTSC reception.

Another interesting thing to try is to turn the Horizontal hold back and forth and see if there is a difference in terms of any change in color. If the burst is cleaner with the baseband input, it may mean less variation with the timing of the burst gate

[radiotvnut]

I just got my two coupons (I'm in MS) in the mail a few minutes ago. They were nice enough to list the stores in my area where the boxes can be purchased.

[zenithfan1]

Anyone in the Chi-town area get their coupons yet? I'm STILL waiting.....

[Pete Deksnis]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Another interesting thing to try is to turn the Horizontal hold back and forth and see if there is a difference in terms of any change in color.

Nope, no color shift. In fact, not even a loss of horizontal hold. Only a small horizontal position shift. That sucker is rock [chiseled stone (no weathering)] hard!

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Also, a certain minimum performance is required for boxes to be coupon-eligible... However: A good reason for NOT doing this across the board for all sets is that it freezes the performance at a particular level, whereas unregulated products have a history of finding constantly improving performance/cost trade-offs.

In the long term, this should not be a problem. The coupon program is going to expire after a fixed number of coupons has been issued (11 million, I think, in each of two phases?), and it may have a time limit as well, so in a couple of years, "better" non-discounted boxes could appear if there is a market for them.

[peverett]

Local Wal-Mart now has Magnavox boxes.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Got my coupons Tuesday (3-04), I'm leaning towards the Zenith boxes, let's face it, I have a 1982 Zenith (my main set) and my 1970 Zenith so I'll keep it in the "family." I also have a set of 1959 rabbit ears for an antenna, so I should be all set.