What B&W videotapes from 1956 to 1960 still exist?

[Aussie Bloke]

Hi all. Here's another question following the colour videotapes, what B&W videotapes of the 1956-1960 era still exists?

So far I know these exist:
Some footage of a OB truck driving along a mountain/canyon top with the B&W IO camera on top of the truck taking footage of the scenery [1956/57]
The Edsel Show [late 1957]
Playhouse 90 (various episodes from 1958 to 1960 exist on B&W videotape)
Dinah Shore Chevy Show (whilst in colour, prior to colour videotaping B&W videotaping was used during the 1957 and 1958 period and I assume some episodes exist on B&W videotape, one being an episode which Dinah is singing with Miss Ella Fitzgerald which was shown on her bio on the Biography Channel)
Ed Sullivan Show (I know there are definitely episodes from 1959 and 1960 existing on videotape, I have a 1959 episode in video format, though it's questionable if any 1957/58 shows exist on video)

And over in Australia I think some TV show from 1960 exists on video as I have some real early excerpt of Johnny O'Keefe (Aussie rock'n'roller) singing his 1960 hit "She's My Baby" and the hairdo really shows the era the show's from.

If anyone could add to this list too that would be fantastic.

Cheers
Troy

[charliesheen]

troy
well i know for sure a few ed sullivan shows from 1957 are around,im a sam cooke fan and he first appeared on sullivan in 57,then in early 58 with buddy holly and the crickets.ive also seen the red skelton show on pbs.but im sure the sullivan people have a lot of videos from 56 and on up(elvis).

[Aussie Bloke]

Hi charliesheen. Yes, already aware a lot of the episodes from pre-1958 exist and I have a few episodes from 1955 to 1957 which are in the "Best Of Ed Sullivan" series but I was referring to episodes on 2 inch B&W quad videotape. Most episodes of the 50s are in kinescope film format. I was told by Ed Reitan that CBS started videotaping the Ed Sullivan Show on 2 inch quad videotapes from as early as 1957, however all the episodes and bits of episodes from 1957 and 1958 I have are in kinescope format and not sure of the likelyhood of any episodes from 57/58 existing on 2" quad due to the station overdubbing the tapes with other programs as videotaping back then was primarily for timeshifting to broadcast in different states at roughly the same time due to timezone differences and preserving shows was out of the question. I was wondering if any episodes from 1957 and 1958 possibly still survive on 2 inch quad tape like some of the 1959 shows? If any do I want to get hold of a copy.

Cheers
Troy

[Sandy G]

Troy- Even if they do, I wonder if one of those early, early VTRs still exists/is operational....and would the tape itself crumble if you tried to play it ?-Sandy G.

[Steve Hoffman]

The tape crumble? No way; it's about as stable as can be if stored correctly. Much longer lasting than any tape made after 1973..

Machines to play back on? Many still exist!

[Aussie Bloke]

That's true Steve. The early tapes from the 1950s that have been transferred (both B&W and colour) have been very successfully transferred to digital, even the earliest tapes !!! The 1959 Ed Sullivan Show I have (well watered down 25 minute version) is pretty much glitchless!!! I reckon an old vintage quad tape from the 50s and 60s can outlive a Digital Beta tape by decades!!!

Cheers
Troy

[Justen]

Let me know if you need any quad transferred. I've got a friend with several decks.

Personally I hate quad. Always had to be optimized, optical audio readers that had to be very clean. Don't even get me started on the machines that played 2" commercials- huge beasts that drew the cartridge out of a wheel with a claw, a vacuum that sucked the tape 3 feet up and across the heads and optics. Talk about a nightmare! The tv station I worked at in San Francisco got a call from Ampex asking if they would donate the machines to their museum.

[orthophonic]

I have transferred many b/w and some color 2" tapes from the late 50's to digital
betacam. As stated before, if stored properly they hold up extrememly well. When
they were not stored well, they have alot of dropouts and shed.
I personnally think they have the best analogue image of any of the analogue
tape formats due to their high writing speed.
The machines are laborous to set up but, the last 2" machine made, the Ampex
AVR-2, was much more convenient than the earlier Ampexes and any of the RCA's.
I too have used one of those 2" commercial machines with the vacuum and claw,
great fun to watch, a nightmare otherwise.

[Sandy G]

Hmmmmm. I woulda thunk the old 2" monsters went the way of the dinosaurs when U-matic decks came along. Shows how much I know....-Sandy G.

[Joel Cairo]

The Sullivan shows exist as video from 1959 onward. The first is from 1/18/59. Everything previous to that is preserved as kinescopes. The first 6 months of Ed's show are (visually) totally lost, as they pre-date CBS's ability to kinescope their programming.

And what Steve H. said is correct-- we don't see it too often, but there's a surprising amount of early videotape that's been preserved. As I mentioned in the color tape thread, you might want to look here:

http://www.cinema.ucla.edu/collections/allTV.html

for some examples.

-Kevin

[Aussie Bloke]

Thanks for the info and the link mate, really answered my questions !

The 1959 Ed Sullivan Show I have in video format (well watered down 25 minutes of) is from 12th April 1959 which features Brook Benton, Johnny Ray, Patachou, Smith & Dale, Teresa Brewer, Phil Foster and Jinny Teal in the watered down 25 minute version.

Anyways thanks for the info and putting me onto that site.

Cheers
Troy

[goodiesguy]

Originally Posted by Aussie Bloke

And over in Australia I think some TV show from 1960 exists on video as I have some real early excerpt of Johnny O'Keefe (Aussie rock'n'roller) singing his 1960 hit "She's My Baby" and the hairdo really shows the era the show's from.


Cheers
Troy

Is this the clip your talking about?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CGxlZRsIkg

If so, it's actually from a 1966 Bandstand special about JOK. With these "new" performances done among some old clips from Six O'Clock Rock. It can't be any earlier than 1964 if it is an "archive" clip because it features the Rajah's behind O'Keefe.

[Einar72]

I found the 1973 performance much more dynamic. The above clip makes him look like he's nursing a sore back!

[holmesuser01]

Originally Posted by Justen

Let me know if you need any quad transferred. I've got a friend with several decks.

Personally I hate quad. Always had to be optimized, optical audio readers that had to be very clean. Don't even get me started on the machines that played 2" commercials- huge beasts that drew the cartridge out of a wheel with a claw, a vacuum that sucked the tape 3 feet up and across the heads and optics. Talk about a nightmare! The tv station I worked at in San Francisco got a call from Ampex asking if they would donate the machines to their museum.

One station I worked for had a big AMPEX cart machine. We called it The Octopus.

Another station had a big RCA built cart machine. We called it, The Monster.

[W3XWT]

I have a bunch of 1/2" carts recorded 1980-early 1990's in the Visually Horrid System format. I recently digitized one not played since 1980 and it was crisp as the day I'd recorded it. The only scare I had with it was when I thought it was over (by recognizing what I'd put on it to play for my grandmother), I was shocked to see stuff that I didn't recognize. There were color bars and a RMA test pattern, both sans ID. And, there was also some pretty decent TVDX out to about 250 miles. Only thing I could figure was my then 80-year-old grandmother, who had seen me TVDX'ing, decided to give it a try! Just, she didn't tell me! Funny thing is, in 1988 as we were getting ready to put her in a nursing home, I was bummed-out when I'd brought a VCR down to record the classic RCA test pattern of WIS-10, only to find they had super'ed on it a digital clock with the graphics quality of an Atari 2600! Still an early riser (farmer's wife for 53 years), she said "Don't worry. You have that already"... I didn't know what she was talking about. Even through the haze of Alzheimer's, she remembered. When I was watching the tape, I had a weird feeling. Not a creepy one per se. Then, I suddenly realized... it was my birthday on which I was digitizing that tape!

As for videotape, I believe storage is the key, I think. All of mine are tails-out, vertical storage and I've always watched the temperature and humidity. And, both the good and the cheap brands look as good as the say they were recorded. Very few dopouts, with most of those in the 5-10ms range at worst.