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  #1  
Old 12-28-2010, 11:35 AM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Questions about CCTV CCD cameras...

I'm interested in a new project - I was looking at the cover of Donald Fagen's album "The Nightfly" and thinking hmmm:



First, I was thinking, I wonder how hard it would be to recreate this photo? I mean, it's pretty simple and evocative. B&W photo. Old 'studio acoustic' tiles on the wall, turntable, old microphone, an ashtray and a pack of smokes. Seems like something like that could be done again for fun.

Then I was thinking about that whole era - I.G.Y. and so on. A bit before my time - I was born in 1961 - but still a cool era. I was thinking, how cool would it be to do a podcast from a 'studio' like that, spinning old disks and dj'ing it just like they would have back in that timeframe?

Then I thought, hey, wait a minute, hold the phone - what about a VIDEO podcast? Put a video camera on that scene and do the podcast as if the camera was not there. Play it straight like a real late night jazz/talk show host of that time period, ignoring the camera, which just happens to be there.

Then - I'm getting to the point! - I was thinking why not make the video podcast with an old B&W TV camera?

So...to the point...

I have a Linux server which has a Happauge video capture card. It can capture analog NTSC TV and has cable coax, RCA, and S-Video inputs.

I see older B&W CCTV cameras on eBay (CCD, not the even older video-tube based units) for very little money. They seem to all have a BNC connector on the backs of them.

So I'm wondering if I could just get a BNC-RCA converter plug and bring the signal right into my video capture card. That would let me mount an old B&W CCTV camera on a tripod and capture intentionally-vintage quality video for a video podcast that had that vintage feel to it. Mix in the music and the mike, and you've got a show.

Is it possible to do this with a simple converter plug to go from BNC to RCA, or is there something else that needs to be in the path to convert the signal electronically? Is there an easier/cheaper way to do this? I have USB webcams, I didn't really want to go that direction; I was really thinking in terms of that vintage 1960's broadcast TV look.

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-28-2010, 01:57 PM
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BrianSummers BrianSummers is offline
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In theory the 50c. converter from your local TV store is all you need. A locally sourced camera will be 525/60 monochrome ( ntsc without the colour ) and if the camera works it should work, however there are always the unforeseen problems........

Even an old CCD camera will not look the same as an old tube camera from the 60s and a 60s camera will require an engineers attention, even if it is working it will soon stop working. They were like that when they were new and 50 + years have not helped the reliability.

Regards Brian
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  #3  
Old 12-28-2010, 03:16 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSummers View Post
In theory the 50c. converter from your local TV store is all you need. A locally sourced camera will be 525/60 monochrome ( ntsc without the colour ) and if the camera works it should work, however there are always the unforeseen problems........

Even an old CCD camera will not look the same as an old tube camera from the 60s and a 60s camera will require an engineers attention, even if it is working it will soon stop working. They were like that when they were new and 50 + years have not helped the reliability.

Regards Brian
Thank you, Brian! I was kind of thinking that in terms of a tube camera; I'd like to at least try this on the cheap to start with. Sort of a proof-of-concept. I realize the CCD won't look quite the same as a previous-generator TV camera, but if I can get somewhat close without busting the bank, that would be good cheap fun. I sincerely appreciate the info!
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  #4  
Old 12-28-2010, 05:57 PM
austvarchive austvarchive is offline
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You can usually find an old B&W vidicon security camera ...somewhere...even if you purchased one from ebay that wasnt in the correct tv standard, most video capture cards are multi-standard, and the security cameras often ran on lower voltages.

To get the real look you really need a tube based camera, a CCD camera is too obvious that its "modern"

although i do wonder what programs are out there which could electronically apply a filter over the image in real time to mimic the look of an old camera...trouble is most cases its still only a "mimic" and you need the real thing to truly get it right.

So, most cost effective way in my opinion, look for an old cctv camera thats tube based...usually they are being thrown away
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  #5  
Old 12-28-2010, 07:21 PM
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old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
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The video level should be just fine with a simple BNC-RCA adaptor. Whether the Hauppage card will like the simple unlocked "industrial" sync signal from a really old tube camera, I don't know - but it's worth a try.
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  #6  
Old 12-28-2010, 08:24 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austvarchive View Post
You can usually find an old B&W vidicon security camera ...somewhere...even if you purchased one from ebay that wasnt in the correct tv standard, most video capture cards are multi-standard, and the security cameras often ran on lower voltages.

To get the real look you really need a tube based camera, a CCD camera is too obvious that its "modern"

although i do wonder what programs are out there which could electronically apply a filter over the image in real time to mimic the look of an old camera...trouble is most cases its still only a "mimic" and you need the real thing to truly get it right.

So, most cost effective way in my opinion, look for an old cctv camera thats tube based...usually they are being thrown away
I appreciate the advice, thanks! I'm a little concerned in that most of the tube-based cameras I'm seeing listed are being sold completely as-is. So I could well spend money on something that doesn't work and will cost quite a bit to get into working condition - been down THAT road a time or two! And I've also noticed how much I don't know about this equipment; it seems much of it was more than just the head unit - some of the older gear appears to have had a lot of boxes and such that did processing (control unit?) and without it, the head unit is no good. I note also that some of the really old gear has either proprietary cable connectors, or use a huge-looking threaded shielded cable end instead of the BNC I'm used to seeing. Not sure if that also can be easily converted to an RCA input?

Anyway, all this to say that perhaps for a quick / cheap demo, a simple CCTV B&W security camera? Then if it works and I want to invest in an older unit for the right look - try a tube-based unit? Maybe I could get some guidance in that area...what to look for, etc.

Thanks again!
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  #7  
Old 12-28-2010, 08:58 PM
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old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones View Post
... it seems much of it was more than just the head unit - some of the older gear appears to have had a lot of boxes and such that did processing (control unit?) and without it, the head unit is no good.


I note also that some of the really old gear has either proprietary cable connectors, or use a huge-looking threaded shielded cable end instead of the BNC I'm used to seeing. Not sure if that also can be easily converted to an RCA input?

Anyway, all this to say that perhaps for a quick / cheap demo, a simple CCTV B&W security camera? Then if it works and I want to invest in an older unit for the right look - try a tube-based unit? Maybe I could get some guidance in that area...what to look for, etc.

Thanks again!
There were many cameras made that were self contained, but yes, some did have a separate control unit.

Regarding the connector, that should be only a mechanical adaptation issue - the output signal has been standardized since the first industrial cameras came out. Some cameras may have an output that is more than the standard 1 volt peak to peak, but that easily can be attenuated.

And thirdly, a quick trial with a working CCD unit if that is what's available, then chasing a tube unit that might need repair, DOES make sense.

Really, I think you have an excellent chance of success.
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  #8  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:06 PM
austvarchive austvarchive is offline
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where are you located? and what tv system/power - i could keep an eye out for something for you
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  #9  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:06 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
There were many cameras made that were self contained, but yes, some did have a separate control unit.

Regarding the connector, that should be only a mechanical adaptation issue - the output signal has been standardized since the first industrial cameras came out. Some cameras may have an output that is more than the standard 1 volt peak to peak, but that easily can be attenuated.

And thirdly, a quick trial with a working CCD unit if that is what's available, then chasing a tube unit that might need repair, DOES make sense.

Really, I think you have an excellent chance of success.
I really appreciate your advice! Thanks, I realize I'm a complete neophyte in this area.

I was looking for any examples of people using older tube TV cameras for modern recording, and not seeing any. I see lots of collectors of old TV camera equipment, and lots of old footage of shows that were clearly made using that equipment back in the day, but is no one using vintage TV equipment for modern purposes at all? Looked on Youtube, saw nothing. Same with a Google search. Anybody know of any videos made recently with older equipment?
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:07 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austvarchive View Post
where are you located? and what tv system/power - i could keep an eye out for something for you
I'm in the metro Detroit area. 115 volt AC, 60 Hz power. I guess NTSC is still the standard here, right? Not PAL or SECAM.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:38 PM
austvarchive austvarchive is offline
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checkout troys youtube channel for footage taken in "modern times" but using old equipment

http://www.youtube.com/user/troysvisualarts
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:53 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austvarchive View Post
checkout troys youtube channel for footage taken in "modern times" but using old equipment

http://www.youtube.com/user/troysvisualarts
Ah, excellent, thank you! Where would I go about finding a camera such as this? I mean I know Hanimex is an Australian brand, right? Is this a Vivitar camera in the USA? Is there some brand or model number I should be looking for?
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2011, 10:28 PM
austvarchive austvarchive is offline
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http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Vintage-1967-G...item4155d80e71

this camera is ideal for you, just have to find some c mount lenses
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:24 PM
Wigwam Jones Wigwam Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austvarchive View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Vintage-1967-G...item4155d80e71

this camera is ideal for you, just have to find some c mount lenses
Thanks, I'll look into it!
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