Hope for ceramic cartridges?

[StellarTV]

Is there any hope for our phonos and Hi-Fis that use ceramic cartridges? I work on a lot of 50s and 60s equipment for people and the original cartridges are all starting to go south. I'm particularly dismayed that I've found many NOS ceramic cartridges to also be bad or intermittent, which is the exact issue with the ones that have been installed and in use, or even not used while installed in equipment for years...

So, there's a new ceramic stereo 1/2 mount cartridge available now... the Varco TN4B aka Pfahenstiel aka Empire... the two latter appear to be rebadged Varco carts. I'm curious if anyone else has experience using these carts? I have ordered these in bulk and have had mixed results using them... some of them, even though they are 'new' have intermittent output just like the old ones. One in particular, which I've been using in my home Hi-Fi; an early 60s Packard Bell, started out sounding great but now has intermittent output on both channels and shrill highs. What gives? More importantly, what is the solution here? Can't use old ones, and the Varcos are pretty much trash... but at $10 a pop is it worth complaining?

[bob91343]

There are some outfits that rebuild cartridges. But if you are going to use substantial quantities, it might pay to learn how to rebuild them.

Basically, you need to be able to open the cartridge, remove the piezoelectric crystal, and put in a new one.

The problems are obtaining satisfactory crystals, and making contact with the crystal without excessive damping. Many may have used plating rather than pressure terminations, something not easy to do at home.

It's mostly a lost art, and I wish you luck.

One solution of course is to use a magnetic cartridge with a preamplifier. Not hard to do, and usually results in better sound.

[radiotvnut]

Pfanstiehl still makes ceramic cartridges. There is the 1/2" mount P190, that puts out around 1/2 volt, and uses a single tipped stylus. This is the type of cartridge that's used in most replica record players and many cheap shelf systems from the '80's until now. There is the P226 that is basically the same as a Varco TN4B and puts out about 1/2 volt. Last, there is the P228 that looks like a P226; but, has close to 1 volt output. A year or so ago, I was exchanging emails with Gary at www.thevoiceofmusic.com and he said that he didn't think that these newer cartridges would be going away anytime soon.

Whenever possible, I try to buy new production cartridges because I've been burnt too many times on older NOS cartridges that have some sort of problem.

For the purpose of cheaper record players such as "one tube wonders", I wish someone would start making a suitable 3 volt cartridge for them. Now, the only options are to get a NOS cartridge and hope it's good, use a current 1V cartridge and live with low volume, or modify the original amp to include a driver stage so that the 1V cartridge will give good volume.

At present, I don't think anyone is rebuilding the newer crystal/ceramic cartridges found in '50's and later machines. The main type of cartridges that places such as West-Tech Services are rebuilding are the old flat crystal 78 rpm cartridges.

If I were restoring a nice hi-fi model, I might consider upgrading the original cartridge to a magnetic and use a seperate preamp. You'd need to use a rugged cartridge, such as the Stanton 400/500 series, that would stand up to the abuse given by a record changer and you'd probably need to play around with how the cartridge and/or record changer is grounded in order to prevent hum.

[Dennman6]

I have a 1958 Motorola "Hi Fi in Fiberglass" portable that uses the power point type of cartridge & a 1959 Motorola Golden Voice stereo portable that uses the red Sonotone 8T cartridge. Both seem to funtion well for now, but the 1958 model of course uses the integrated Astatic 940/EV 56. And those are only as good as the current manufacturers make them. But what's the scoop on this now 54 year old Sonotone? It sounds fine with NOS 8TA styli. Should I expect a ceramic cart failure on this particular type of Sonotone?

[radiotvnut]

The main problem I've had with those Sonotone's is the rubber suspension getting hard and causing needle skips, excessive record wear, and poor sound. I've also had trouble with one side of the stereo models becomming intermittent. The mono ones are not very stereo complaint, even with a stereo needle.

I don't think anyone still makes those 54 power point cartridges; but, I think the newer 89T's and the proper holder are still in production.

[Celt]

If the turntable in question is decent enough (Collaro, better GE or VM grade) and has a 1/2" mount, I'd advice installing an economical magnetic cart like the AT3600 and add a small phono preamp to the unit. GE makes a nice little preamp that can be run from any 9 volt DC source or an internal battery. Small enough that it can be easily tucked under the TT or in with the amplifier.
Oh, The 3600 has a conical diamond stylus and a 3 mil 78 stylus is available for it too.

[StellarTV]

I'm liking the idea of going with a magnetic cartridge and preamp. I have limited experience substituting ceramic for magnetic; in fact, the only instance I've ever done this was on an early 60s Garrard Laboratory turntable and it seemed like the arm would start resonating and the needle hopping grooves due to feedback at the drop of a hat. I figured this was because I had to set up that massive tone arm to such a light weight all that counterbalanced mass sitting in suspension wasn't conducive to the light weight required by the magnetic cart. The tone arm was designed for about 5g pressure or so for the original ceramic cart.

I've just been looking up preamps and it looks like Frys has some Philmores that come with an AC cord already attached for about $16 which would make it easy to splice into the Hi Fi's power switch.

I'll give this a try; I think this might be a good call!

Regarding those powerpoint cartridges.... LOVE THEM! I have a few handfulls of those and they always sound great. Trouble is not having the flip-over mount they are designed to set in... that would be a great solution if I had a matching handfull of mounts!

[radiotvnut]

One thing I've noticed about powerpoint's is that I don't think anyone makes the old style LP/78 flip version. They make an LP/LP version, a single sided LP version, and a single sided 78 version; but, not the old style LP/78 version. The old style holders, as well as the old style LP/78 version, are available from www.thevoiceofmusic.com.

I've also found the quality of these cartridges to be all over the place. Some work great and others will grind a record with just a single playing. I've ruined a few polystyrene 45's by just a single playing with an inferior power point cartridge and I've seen these bad cartridges change the color of the record grooves as it played.

I use caution when replacing any needle or cartridge by playing a few worthless records that I care little about, just in case there is a problem.

[cbenham]

Originally Posted by StellarTV

I'm liking the idea of going with a magnetic cartridge and preamp. <-->

I tried replacing a ceramic cartridge in a VM record player that had a two pole motor.
The magnetic cartridge I used, quite a few years ago was a GE VRII magnetic.

The problem was that the magnetic cart picked up lots of motor hum and was completely unusable.

Has shielding improved with modern mag carts so that using them in players with two pole motors no longer is a problem?
Does anyone know of a particular cartridge that works well in this situation?

Thanks, Cliff

[orthophonic]

I have put magnetics in dozens of old two pole VM'S and have never had a
hum problem. You need to use something like the Stanton 500 or 400 or the
Shure SC35.

Those old GE's would sometimes hum in a four pole table.

[radiotvnut]

Well, I just got a brand new dud Tetrad cartridge. Actually, it's been here for about a month; but, I just now got the customer's stereo up to the point where I could test it and the new cartridge is nearly dead on one channel. I checked the changer wiring and the amp and determined that the problem was indeed the cartridge. As you can imagine, I was highly PO'ed because I was hoping to wrap this one up and get it back to the customer. I dug around and found a new Varco TN4B; and, fortunately, the tonearm head is designed to accept a 1/2" mount cartridge. I've installed the Varco cartridge; but, I'm now cooling down a bit before I test it.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

I've ruined a few polystyrene 45's by just a single playing with an inferior power point cartridge and I've seen these bad cartridges change the color of the record grooves as it played.

Polystyrene? I thought there were only only three types of material used to make records: Shellac(78's), Lacquer coated aluminum(for home/professional record cutting machines), and Vinyl(LP's and 45's).

[radiotvnut]

Yep, polystyrene. You can thank Columbia Records for that stunt. Columbia introduced the LP in '48, RCA introduced the 45 in '49. During all this, Columbia and RCA were NOT and Columbia wanted to make the 45 look bad; so, they started pressing them on cheap styrene in the early '50's. Another reason was because it was cheaper to press them on styrene than vinyl. There were some exceptions; but, Columbia pretty much stuck with styrene until at least the early '90's. A&M, Mercury, WB, and Epic were other major labels that used styrene heavily. During the late '70's, RCA started doing it. I'll tell you that it's very hard to find a decent styrene pressing these days. Those that are decent were either never played or played rarely on a good magnetic cartridge equipped turntable. I've got some styrene pressings that were "on air" copies from various radio stations; and, surprisingly, most of them still sound acceptable. Some of them have cue burn (pppsssttt sound) at the very beginning of the song from where the DJ would spin the record backwards in order to get the stylus at a point just before the song started. Rather than play them on the air, I think a lot of stations copied their styrene records to cart tape for use on the air and then kept the record put away for safe keeping.

[Electronic M]

Wow. Ya learn something new every day.

I don't buy old stand alone record players anymore or fix the phono portions on most of my tube combo sets(except the favorites) as I just don't feel like putting new cartridge + idler money into something that I'll only use a handful of times.

[radiotvnut]

I would use mine; but, it still irritates me that an idler wheel cost at least $30 and a cartridge will run at least $20. So, you're looking at a minimum of $50 to repair most record players. I've heard of some people using a rubber "O-ring" to replace the rubber on defective idler wheels and I think I'm going to try it. I've got a beat up Airline kid's record player that I got for nearly free and fixed it with junk I had on hand; but, the idler wheel has a big notch in it that causes a "bump bump bump" sound as it turns and I'm not too thrilled about spending $30 for a new wheel. Up until a few years ago, there was an outfit called KMR electronics that sold parts for institutional A/V equipment. They had the old style metal 1490-01 idler wheels for around $5; but, that company has since went belly up. The only sources I'm finding for these idler wheels are the usual rebuilders that get around $30 and outfits charging insane prices for NOS wheels.