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  #31  
Old 04-04-2015, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
Most of us remember seeing those shows on roundies. That is why we have a fondness, it's the nostalgia. We remember our first experiences with color television and it was usually on a roundie and it was great!
I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. Inversely, I mentioned I think in a second post that most of my sets are older than I am. So, being a kid in the 70s, my memories of these sets were just that they were just another set. Or later junk... yep.

By the time I took my high school electronics training in the early 80s. our donation area in the classroom was well populated with them. However, even then I remember specifically wanting to work on those just because they seemed more interesting than the other almost as old rectangulars which I had no interest in. I still think there is more to this than nostalgia really. I mean how many people want their first touch tone phone or cell phone back? Or their first computer for that matter. I think a lot of us have some training in electronics and simply enjoy the challenge of getting an old TV or radio going again and preserving it for whatever reason. That would sort of explain me, but I have never been able to explain even to myself the love of TV and radio in some cases much older than I am. It just comes naturally.....
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  #32  
Old 04-04-2015, 05:23 PM
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I wasn't around when roundie CRTs were being made, I really wasn't even around when vacuum tube sets were being produced, everything was pretty much solid state when I was born in Feb of 1978.. My mother had a cheap B/W tube set when I was a baby, it's in a picture somewhere I believe.. But she said I use to go in the back of the set and mess with the knobs.. I may have even broke the set LOL.. But there is something about roundie and old sets I really like.. I like them from the beginning to the early 80s, when they started to become digital, I didn't care for them... I do like some of the early digital Zeniths with the digital tuners and green display readout, which I have one of those sets.. But I remember always wanting a color roundie as far back to the late 1990s when I got my first B/W roundie I believe from that guy that owns this site: http://www.vintagetvsets.com/ pretty sure it was this site or maybe someone related to it, I remember viewing that site in 1998, or 99.. It really looks no different.. But it was a guy out of Long Island New York.. I never recall ever seeing a color roundie working as a kid, and all TVs I saw in the junk back in the 80s were early rectangular sets.. Web surfing in the late 1990s and seeing actual pictures of color roundies actually made me want one, and it was only up until about 3 years ago until I saw one operating in person...
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  #33  
Old 04-04-2015, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
IMHO a roundie was a technology compromise utill rectangular color tubes could be made. If we are used to watching movies in the theater in the rectangular format, we should be watching color movies in the home on a rectangular TV. I did not like the fact that the images were cut off at the corners on a roundie.

Unlike the past, most kids grow up with color TV from the time they first turn a set on. It has become mainstream, not a big deal. If you grew up before color TV was invented and lived for 9, 10-18 years with black and white, it was a big deal to have your first color set.
I'm guessing that rectangular delta-gun sets were a technology compromise as well considering that the gun setup doesn't fully cooperate with the screen geometry. The smaller tubes must have been easier to design inline-gun systems for; I noticed that many 19" screen table sets got inline tubes before larger-screen consoles.

We always had a color set when I was growing up, but I didn't have access to it most of the time (now the Electrohome is totally mine, haha). I had a small B&W set which I hated, so it was still a big deal to me to get my first color set. I wouldn't want that particular model back though, they were becoming BPC by the time that was made.
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  #34  
Old 04-04-2015, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubejunke View Post
I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. :
You are right, it's about the age group before color TV was invented. Let me respond. Yes that is exactly what I mean, it's nostalgia for me. As I tried to explain, at the time I was a bit younger than the core group of guys who were able to buy their first color sets in 1954, 1955, 1956 etc. I was not able to buy my first color set until almost 19. That means it was 1966 when I purchased my first color set. At the time, I thought roundies were old fashioned. Who would want one when the new rectangular tubes were just coming out and the roundies cut off the corners of the image! To a buyer like me at that time, roundies were being phased out.

Two years ago, I was able to find the exact same color set as the one I purchased in 1966. Even the same cabinet. I had long ago disposed of it as junk, but now at my age, I searched until I found the same exact set. It was not that I thought it was superior, just the nostalgia of possessing the first color set you owned. After that, I really wanted to find an RCA CTC 5 to go back as far possible to the very first sets. On the way to that search, I found a beautiful 1964 RCA CTC 15 roundie.

To put it another way, for me, it's similar to wanting to find a 1963 Pontiac GTO, the very first muscle car and I was just old enough to drive and wanted one badly. That car is not a better car then today's car, but it's all about the nostalgia.

From reading these forums over the years, I think most here, get enjoyment from the challange of repairing these old sets. I'm not good at repair, so always try to find good working examples. Been lucky so far, takes patience. Love the nostalgia.

As to the micro televisions I collect, that's another story. :-)
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2015, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etype2 View Post
I do not agree that a properly adjusted color roundie looks better than a properly adjusted flat screen. I did an experiment. You may remember Ed Reitan's screenshot of Dorthty from the Wizard of Oz. ... If you compare image to image from a more modern properly adjusted 1964 RCA CTC15 roundie to my 70 inch calibrated flat screen, there is no comparison.
I've done this comparison between Oz from a DVD through a first class
B-T agile modulator into both a 55 inch LCD and my CT-100.

There is a comparison. The colors are exceedingly close. The LCD
has, in its normal settings, excessive contrast for film, while
the CT-100 is correct. This can be adjusted out on the LCD set.
The resolution is not exactly the same. The overall resolution is similar,
but the LCD has "sharpening" halos on it, the
CT-100 none, and the LCD has a tad more real
resolution. But very close.
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  #36  
Old 04-04-2015, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtvmcdonald View Post
I've done this comparison between Oz from a DVD through a first class
B-T agile modulator into both a 55 inch LCD and my CT-100.

There is a comparison. The colors are exceedingly close. The LCD
has, in its normal settings, excessive contrast for film, while
the CT-100 is correct. This can be adjusted out on the LCD set.
The resolution is not exactly the same. The overall resolution is similar,
but the LCD has "sharpening" halos on it, the
CT-100 none, and the LCD has a tad more real
resolution. But very close.
I would love to see screenshots of your comparison test. I think I remember the thread. I could go back and look. I have read in these forums that the CT-100 was possibly the only set that had color phospers that accurately met strict colors standards of that era and up to this day. That means the RCA CT-100 would be considered a high end set of its era and most certainly a better challenge then the field sequential set or the CTC-15. Can the LCD used in your test be considered high end? We're both sets calibrated to the current standard? Today's LCD sets are capable of reproducing a wider spectrum of colors then the current standard. Coming soon, the 4K BluRay group is currently working out the final standards for the new 4K format. LCD manufactures are working to achieve most if not all of the advanced image and color standards of this new format.

My test was comparing Ed Reitan's screenshot to the identical frame captured off my high end Sharp 70 inch calibrated LCD. My LCD model is now three years old. I could post unretouched photos to show what I mean when I say there is no comparison. I can do the same comparison test using a recently adjusted RCA CTC-15 with the LCD. The delta dot structure is much more noticeable on the CTC-15 than the Quatron pixel structure which has 25% more pixels than a standard LCD. It is not as bright. My CTC-15 was adjusted by a retired RCA color technician, but not professionally calibrated. Still the colors do look very accurate.

When the two screenshots of an identical frame are captured from the RCA CTC-15 and the LCD, there is just no comparison in terms of brightness and resolution. The controls for this test are that both sets are in almost total darkness, only the screen light is imaged and captured and the camera is set on auto exposure.
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2015, 08:42 PM
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Seeing "Colored TV" was a BIG DEAL when I was a tadpole.. Nobody had one here in Greater Bugtussle, you had to go to the "Big City" to see one, usually in a store. We had some relatives who had one, in Kingsport, & once we went up there to see it, on a Sunday afternoon. There was a football game on, & the men kept goin' on & on about how GREAT it was, but I just didn't see it. It was a green-painted metal cased RCA set, a roundie, & I guess it was 1964, '65 or so.
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  #38  
Old 04-04-2015, 08:55 PM
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ok,heres my take on the question.i saw the picture on the first color sets.the 15 inch models and i was amazed.the 19 and 21 inch sets were bigger but the picture wasnt better.still.to a youngster,amazing.nothing exciting for a few years and then the coming of the zenith color sets.never had i seen a picture so bright,clear,sharp and colorful.truly,the finest picture on a roundie.rca later released the ctc15 which was very close to the zeniths in quality.the rectangulars came out and though the picture was good,just didnt stand up to the aforementioned sets.the next huge improvement was the zenith chromacolor sets.whether hybrid or solid state,those sets are still acclaimed as the best ever.the coming of the great sylvanias,hybrid and solid state with the famous 25vdmp22 crt was the very last hurrah for the delta gun sets.all in all,the zenith roundie in my opinion was the most beautiful picture i had ever saw on a crt set.maybe it was the era or maybe it was just my youth but that set was exciting.
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  #39  
Old 04-05-2015, 01:10 AM
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It was NOT just you....I still have fond memories of my 25MC33, seeing shows like "the spy who loved me" 2001", Dark star", Caddyshack", Airport 79" Coma", "You only live twice"...along with a LOT of mission impossible episodes and such. ... and MANY others--for about a year--on that wonderful set. It was OTA only, and only a few channels. BUT what we had ...just looked SOOO good !!

Zenith claimed they "had something different and special" in their roundie set--from the 29JC20 on...IMHO....they DEFINITELY did !!
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  #40  
Old 04-05-2015, 05:26 PM
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Age group does have something to do with it.. But there are people like me that are one of the younger that like the old sets before our time..
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  #41  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubejunke View Post
I am guessing that the writer is referring to this topic in relation to his specific age group. With that I would agree, but I'm not positive that's what he means. It actually backs up one of the possibilities I mentioned in starting this thread of why the specific "roundie" color set has such a big fan base. The age group that saw all of this come along could easily want a piece of a fond old memory around. Inversely, I mentioned I think in a second post that most of my sets are older than I am. So, being a kid in the 70s, my memories of these sets were just that they were just another set. Or later junk... yep.

By the time I took my high school electronics training in the early 80s. our donation area in the classroom was well populated with them. However, even then I remember specifically wanting to work on those just because they seemed more interesting than the other almost as old rectangulars which I had no interest in. I still think there is more to this than nostalgia really. I mean how many people want their first touch tone phone or cell phone back? Or their first computer for that matter. I think a lot of us have some training in electronics and simply enjoy the challenge of getting an old TV or radio going again and preserving it for whatever reason. That would sort of explain me, but I have never been able to explain even to myself the love of TV and radio in some cases much older than I am. It just comes naturally.....
I feel the exact same way. I always gravitated toward the vintage stuff especially tube electronics as it always seemed more interesting. Another thing is that vintage tv and radio do not become functionally obsolete unlike early computers and cellphones. My first cellphone was a Motorola brick in 1993 and it was analog so if I had it today It could never be used as the networks are all digital now. My first computer I bought new was a Packard Bell 486 SX20 with 2mb of ram. Today I bet it would not even load this forum page but my 1965 Zentih Roundie and my 1949 Motorola 9VT1 can still receive the current programming, even Netflix with the digital converter and Roku boxes to which they are connected. Not to mention my 1937 Philco 610 radio can still pick up Coast To Coast AM every night.
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  #42  
Old 04-05-2015, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
It was NOT just you....I still have fond memories of my 25MC33, seeing shows like "the spy who loved me" 2001", Dark star", Caddyshack", Airport 79" Coma", "You only live twice"...along with a LOT of mission impossible episodes and such. ... and MANY others--for about a year--on that wonderful set. It was OTA only, and only a few channels. BUT what we had ...just looked SOOO good !!

Zenith claimed they "had something different and special" in their roundie set--from the 29JC20 on...IMHO....they DEFINITELY did !!
I know what you mean abouth the 25MC33 sets. I have one and the picture is stunning. Everything I watch on it looks great. It is really fun to watch Mad Men on it as roundies were often featured in that show. The build quality on the Zeniths is excellent and it makes me feel as if the set can las for decades more with good care. I just can't see any flat panel lasting as long. I was always fascinated by round screen sets the first one I ever saw was a Zenith color roundie back in 1974 as a kid and I never forgot it.
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  #43  
Old 04-06-2015, 12:03 PM
DaveWM DaveWM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeno View Post
To fix the shading you just need to replace the filter cap on the
200 V line. Usually a 4.7mfd use a 450 V. One of the most
common problems on ANY color TV.

73 Zeno
Zeno is that the video out screen decoupler? I see a 2uf on the 160v line that feeds the video out screen (ctc-12)
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  #44  
Old 04-06-2015, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveWM View Post
Zeno is that the video out screen decoupler? I see a 2uf on the 160v line that feeds the video out screen (ctc-12)
Dave - I think Zeno is referring to TVCollector's early 80s Toshiba. Saw one with jail-bars on a left half of screen and it was a 22uf 160 volt cap that filtered the sweep-derived G2 supply on the CRT socket board.

The cap you mentioned in a CTC12 (and earlier chassis) is bypass on the 6AW8/6LF8 screen grid and causes weak sync in borderline cases
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  #45  
Old 04-06-2015, 02:43 PM
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ah, I see.

I have been chasing an issue where some brightness like a title in white causes a drop in overall screen brightness. Some how I got Zeno response tied up with that.
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