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Delta Gun Hype/understanding
Hello, I see many praises on Delta Gun sets.
For my own understanding, are all phosphor dot shadow mask CRT's Delta guns? Also If i am correct, GE was the first to implement the three segmented rectangle phosphor vertical line CRT's, and Sony had a similar design in their Trinitron, but the vertical phosphors were not segmented. Both non-delta guns. So that said, why does the general consensus lean towards preferring delta gun CRT's? |
#2
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Let's see if I can explain this.... not all dot phosphor color sets are deltagun and not all stripe phosphor color is in line, but in TVs one can argue that it is the majority case. The first generation GE portacolor 11" CRT was an in line gun firing into what was basically the center 11" of a 21FBP22 deltagun CRT sliced out and stuck in a smaller cone. The Japanese market chromatron CRT (which was the Japanese taking an un manufacturable American design getting it as close to practical as possible then building it despite VERY high manufacturing dud rate) used continuous vertical phosphor stripes, and some used deltaguns. Shadow mask dot phosphor with in line guns was popular in computer monitors until the end of the CRT, and was used in some TVs. Breaking the stripe into blocks happened shortly after in line CRTs caught on in the US and IIRC had to to with imagine enhancement and black matrix technology (something Zenith rolled out in their deltagun chromacolor CRTs).
As for preference most TV collectors want sets that use vacuum tube or hybrid chassis, but not solid state... aside from the portacolor and Sony's the in line did not gain traction in the US untill just after the last hybrids we're being phased out... also at that time most of the last US TV manufacturing was being phased out so most sets of that period are seen as 15 year old wall Mart Chinese/Japanese garbage by collectors. Neither technology was necessarily better or worse performance wise, but for the most part the era changed with the end of the deltagun. Some folks like myself who don't officially collect solid state sets do grab SS deltaguns because the CRTs interchange with more desirable sets and by then were usually black matrix which is an upgrade....Also better SS deltagun CRT sets like the Zenith CCII were at least as good as a Trinitron, and last forever.
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Tom C. Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off! What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4 |
#3
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Quote:
The early delta gun sets from the 50’s and 60’s are not superior to newer technologies of the 70’s through 2000’s, but it is amazing to see how well the 50’s technology looks today on a restored color set. [B]
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com Last edited by etype2; 05-13-2019 at 02:44 PM. |
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The unbroken vertical stripes mean that the shadow mask is not self supporting and must be made of strips under tension (Trinitron). By using broken stripes, the shadow mask is self supporting, just like a delta-gun mask. A disadvantage of continuous stripe screens is that less area is avaialble for black matrix, so the screen is more reflective of room light. However, a tension mask can take much more beam current before going out of shape, so the disadvantage can be reduced by using darker faceplate glass and more beam current to make up for the loss in brightness.
The really big advantage in in-line gun tubes is the simplification of convergence and loosening of tolerances needed to maintain purity. The final result was tubes needing no complex dynamic convergence circuits, with all CRT adjustments obtained by yoke and permanent magnet adjustment. This sequence of development was a major factor in reducing color TV prices in real terms. While general inflation went up by a factor of 7 to 10 times, color TV set prices stayed constant or actually declined. There was a long period when the common color TV set was a 19 inch table model selling for about $300. |
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Quote:
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com Last edited by etype2; 05-13-2019 at 08:11 PM. Reason: Corrected to “65 watts (Max)” |
Audiokarma |
#6
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A slight correction - the Trinitron fine horizontal wires were added to reduce vibration of the vertical wires, not to alleviate effects of heating. The Trinitron vertical wires were under tension until heated very excessively, which normally could not happen with the current densities that could be reached in a normal chassis design. Edit: on large Trinitron tubes, knocking on the face would vibrate the grille, and you could plainly see the effects of the grille wires ringing.
Self-supporting shadow masks were subject to local expansion if there was too much local current, like the white patch in composite color bars/white/I/Q pattern. This could not happen with the Trinitron tensioned grille or the later Zenith flat tension mask tube. Self-supporting masks also were subject to overall expansion due to average temperature, and mounting techniques were developed that moved the mask closer to the phosphor screen as it warmed up and expanded over-all, thus maintaining design aim-point beam landing and good purity. Last edited by old_tv_nut; 05-13-2019 at 11:48 PM. |
#7
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Quote:
Edit: I stand corrected. The aperture grill will warp, but not in a way that cause mis-registered colors, so I guess that’s another advantage over delta gun CRT’s.
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com Last edited by etype2; 05-14-2019 at 02:34 AM. |
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The Trinitron grille wires could not warp because they were under tension. If you managed to really overheat them to the point they lost tension, they would become loose, like strings that are too long for the size of the frame. It was not only the thick glass that made Trinitrons heavy, but also the grille frame that was sturdy enough to maintain tension, just like a piano frame. Self-supporting shadow masks were not under any tension, just had enough strength to maintain their own shape due to the compound curve (same principle used to make auto bodies, where you never find a flat surface).
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#9
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Got it. Took a while to sink in.
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com |
#10
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When I worked at the tv shop a Sony KV-1920 came in for a repair and the jug was in need of replacement. That was my first set into the wonderful world of Trinitron. Our only other color sets were delta tube/shadow mask technology. I bought the Sony as the customer didn't want to fix it. The shop got a new jug from San Diego as their CRT plant was opened by then. The tv sat unrepaired for a long time as it needed the usual parts that would be taken out when the SC613 would fail. It needed SG613, HO transistor, and new style top hat damper diode. But after having that Sony finally working I became a true Trinitron follower and never looked back. Next set was a Sony KV2648R. I joined Videokarma when the 2648R died. I still have the KV1920 and it is operational, but needs a restoration if I were going to use it daily. I'm probably an oddball collector that only has one delta tube set. A 1968 Zenith color console, all tube. Everything else I collect will be a Sony product. That's how much I respect the Trinitron technology. Partly because I don't have room or time or space to collect anything that's large. I appreciate all the delta sets I see on here, but won't be collecting them. With about 20 sets I'm seeing a space issue. I just wish the CRT technology would of lasted longer.
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Sony Trinitron is my favorite brand. My wish list: Sony KV-7010U Sony KV-1220U |
Audiokarma |
#11
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It didn't make it to 4K/8K, but it did make it to HD...I've got what I consider the ultimate Trinitron (KD-34XBR960 WEGA with a 16X9 Super-Fine-Pitch CRT that supports native 1080i HD) as my daily HD set/media PC monitor...At nearly 200lbs it aint exactly fun to move (though I can pick it up and walk with it), but it is probably the best compromise between wanting to watch a CRT and see HD video as you'll ever find...Flat panel sets for years after it was made were still not beating its contrast ratio, brightness, and color fidelity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA These things can still be found for under 50 clams if you watch the used market (they have a following with gamers and some other circles).
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Tom C. Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off! What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4 |
#12
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Quote:
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com |
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“Flat panel sets for years after it was made were still not beating its contrast ratio, brightness, and color fidelity.”
WOLED sets surpassed the best CRT’s.
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Personal website dedicated to Vintage Television https://visions4netjournal.com |
#14
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I did write that in the past tense to indicate that flat panels have bested it...
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Tom C. Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off! What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4 |
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I once had a Sun Microsystems monitor with the super fine pitch, flat screen Trinitron. It was fantastic to say the least. It had so many convergence adjustments that it was darn near perfect to the very edge of the screen. Yes, it was very heavy. I was sad to see it go, but the LCD display that replaced it was much less bulky and generated much less heat.
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Audiokarma |
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