Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Things with Motors

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 05-24-2014, 08:17 PM
KentTeffeteller's Avatar
KentTeffeteller KentTeffeteller is offline
Gimpus Stereophilus!
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Athens, TN
Posts: 791
What part of stalling is unsafe don't you understand? Ever nearly dislocated a shoulder when you lost steering and have to steer one handed? I have. Stick shift not an option. I am required to have Automatic Transmission, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Hand Controls, and a Steering Knob for driving. My license states so. Stalling and the car dying is white knuckle. GM right now makes too much junk. Unsafe junk. They need to fix it. The Pontiac you posted is a great car. I had a 1981 Pontiac LeMans wagon, my first car. The best GM i ever owned.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-27-2014, 01:11 AM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
Back in a "different world " (early 1992), I owned a 1987 Buick Riviera. good car, liked it. I really enjoyed it's high-tech features at the time. BUT--not long after I got it in I think December of 91...I discovered why it had been sold. It normally ran VERY well and smoothly, and the 3.8 PFI engine was not exactly a weakling. BUT..every once in awhile...it would begin to 'surge" in rpm's, cough....and then DIE. This usually happened (IIRC) when I was NOT under power, particularly during coasting down a hill or such.

One particular time...this happened at night.. when I was just out "fooling around" and driving for the heck of it. I was in or near Batavia Ohio, near that nice hill known around here as "devils backbone", due to its steepness and many curves down it's path. The car was running fine, BUT had stalled once or twice earlier that night. It WOULD instantly restart..BUT since it had automatic headlights....if it DID die....and you went to re-start...the lights would go OUT--while starting. Normally--this is NOT a big deal...BUT if you are descending a steep, curvy hill at night it is.

As I began down Devils backbone...the engine began surging , coughed a couple of times and then DIED. NOW_-if I HAD tried to re-start...I would have lost my lights..SO--I had to ride ALL the way down the hill...with NO engine, power brakes or steering !! Thank the LORD...no one was coming up that hill as I came down dead like that....as I am SURE I would have hit them--it was NOT at all easy to keep from running off the road coming down a steep hill at night....with manual EVERYTHING !!

VERY soon after this...I heard about a stall recall....GM paid to put in a new PROM and I THINK MAF sensor and coil pack too IIRC...That DID fix the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-27-2014, 06:07 AM
dishdude's Avatar
dishdude dishdude is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 821
Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had good luck with recent GM cars. It seems like all the cars produced today are pretty much the same in the reliability department.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:26 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
When my 1969 ford pickup would stall because I had the choke set wrong (i.e. took it off a bit too soon before the engine was warmed up and stepped on the accelerator), I would just depress the clutch and start it again while still rolling... no power brakes or power steering to lose, and the lights were just lights.

Now my new truck has never stalled on me, and it while DOES have a vacuum booster on the brakes, it doesn't have power steering, I am completely confident I could handle a stall without any issues at all.

On the other hand, I had a Mazda whose idle would randomly surge, and that was downright dangerous, especially on ice, it would randomly kick sideways and start to fishtail. I would WAY rather be dealing with the stalling old Ford than surging idle.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:32 PM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
My old Riv was JUST a "bit" higher tech than your 1969 was. I think it had 8 or MORE computers...PFI injection and coil pack ignition...Not all that much simpler engine-wise than many of the cars today--that still use PFI.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #51  
Old 05-27-2014, 03:34 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
My old Riv was JUST a "bit" higher tech than your 1969 was. I think it had 8 or MORE computers...PFI injection and coil pack ignition...Not all that much simpler engine-wise than many of the cars today--that still use PFI.
The Ford had a Carter 1bbl carburetor, which I rebuilt myself when it got plugged up. I really liked that truck, but the body was just too far gone. Advances in vehicles are nice, and they have sure improved in almost every measurable way, but there's something nice about the keep it simple stupid approach... I wish you could buy such a simple vehicle today ... Points ignition... no catalytic converter to worry about, no 02 sensor, no computers, no plastic covers on the engine or sensors to fail. manual choke, I would pay a premium for it. A tune up takes a couple hours on a Saturday, big deal.

Last edited by maxhifi; 05-27-2014 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-10-2014, 10:17 AM
dtvmcdonald's Avatar
dtvmcdonald dtvmcdonald is online now
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,191
The only car I had that ever stalled was a 1975 Corvette, and it did
it at 70% of stop signs (avoidable with very fancy three pedals at once
footwork). I tried getting the dealer to fix
it under warranty ... 12 times. They kept replacing parts
and no change. Idiots.

I figured 13 was too much and went to a hot rod shop. An hour,
a $12 part (some sort of timing thingie) and a tiny little drill
for the the carburetor nozzles and it worked perfectly.

The power was still low so I had a dual exhaust installed and the
catalytic convertor removed (which became illegal in a couple
of years, but grandfathered in).
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-10-2014, 12:13 PM
DaveWM DaveWM is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 5,607
I had a 67 pontiac tempest that would suddenly stall (total loss of electrical) I learned to make sure I kept momentum up when making turns (esp left) and other little tricks. I eventually found the problem (defective fire wall connector plug). It did not have power brakes and was a bear to stop esp if it rained (all four drums) was a pig but a nice highway cruiser, a 326 with a 2bbl carb and a two speed auto.

I also had a datsun 1200 while in college, I remember when the starter went out I went a full semester buy parking on a hill (hard to find in florida, so had to find parking lots with slight inclines) so I could bump start it (4sp man clutch).

some times when there was no hill I would open the door and push start it, running inside the open door and the car body, jump in when I got it a few mph, and do a quick bump start. often take several trys, but always did get it going. Good way to stay in shape eventually I got the 20$ up and got a starter for it. 2 door, no AC, man choke, power nothing and 35mpg back in the 70's only safety item was seat belts.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-24-2014, 05:30 PM
Rusty34's Avatar
Rusty34 Rusty34 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by egrand View Post
Squirrel, I hate to tell you this, but Mopar used GM's Saginaw power steering units from the early 60's to the 80's. They were the same "canned ham" pumps that GM cars used. What might have been different were the boost pressures. Those units used different springs and shims in the valves to change the pressures. I'd have to look it up, but Mopar might have used higher pressures.
Chrysler made their own steering gear (Chrysler called them "chucks") but did use both Chrysler made pumps and GM Saginaw pumps during that time frame.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-24-2014, 06:49 PM
Rusty34's Avatar
Rusty34 Rusty34 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 51
Toyota was doing a pretty good job of grabbing all the headlines a few years ago with reports of sudden unintended acceleration events pouring in. As GM is currently being blamed for their handling of the switch problem the Toyota PR department also initially tried to minimize their involvement by first blaming floormats and then by issuing gas pedal recalls but the problem reported by investigating engineers turned out to be somewhere else. The issue came to light after a Camry was found upside down in a pond with four fatalities inside and the cars floormats were inside the trunk. Toyota circuit boards are assembled with lead free solder which when exposed to certain environmental conditions would allow "tin whiskers" to grow and eventually form a bridge between solder joints. In some vehicles which involved fatalities it was the perfect storm sequence of events, if you will... circuits would short together and trick the ECU into signaling the drive by wire throttle to go full open. Shifting to neutral wasn't possible since the gear shift handle is no longer connected to the transmission with a mechanical linkage but the gearshift is now a switch which signals the ECU to command a shift via the motorized gear range selector. Attempting to switch to neutral wasn't working because it was connected to a runaway ECU.

A major clue here is the fact that every driver who survived an unintended acceleration event reported being unable to stop the car with the brakes. This might point to a corrupted ECU also interfering with the antilock brakes module which regulates brake pedal hydraulic pressure to each of the four wheels to prevent wheel lock-up. No matter how hard the driver stomped on the brake pedal the car kept accelerating.

There is another important point to keep in mind. Every car sold in this country regardless of horsepower is equipped with brakes powerful enough to bring it to a stop with a stuck wide open throttle. Consumer Reports recently tested this on several different makes and found it to be true. In addition they tested them with full throttle at 100mph and the brakes still stopped the car.

This might be something for hotrod builders and those who have old cars with 700hp crate engines installed to bear in mind, will they stop under these conditions?

Ford loyalists would also do well to remember the Ford ignition switches of the 70's and 80's which would overheat and start a fire. Major recall with many lawsuits over that one too.

Cars manufacturers all operate about the same. Depending upon the price range you end up having about the number of problems you paid for. All manufacturers occassionally build a great car but they always manage to screw it up by replacing it with the next model they hope you will trade for.

Last edited by Rusty34; 09-24-2014 at 07:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #56  
Old 09-26-2014, 01:56 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty34 View Post
Toyota was doing a pretty good job of grabbing all the headlines a few years ago with reports of sudden unintended acceleration events pouring in. As GM is currently being blamed for their handling of the switch problem the Toyota PR department also initially tried to minimize their involvement by first blaming floormats and then by issuing gas pedal recalls but the problem reported by investigating engineers turned out to be somewhere else. The issue came to light after a Camry was found upside down in a pond with four fatalities inside and the cars floormats were inside the trunk. Toyota circuit boards are assembled with lead free solder which when exposed to certain environmental conditions would allow "tin whiskers" to grow and eventually form a bridge between solder joints. In some vehicles which involved fatalities it was the perfect storm sequence of events, if you will... circuits would short together and trick the ECU into signaling the drive by wire throttle to go full open. Shifting to neutral wasn't possible since the gear shift handle is no longer connected to the transmission with a mechanical linkage but the gearshift is now a switch which signals the ECU to command a shift via the motorized gear range selector. Attempting to switch to neutral wasn't working because it was connected to a runaway ECU.

A major clue here is the fact that every driver who survived an unintended acceleration event reported being unable to stop the car with the brakes. This might point to a corrupted ECU also interfering with the antilock brakes module which regulates brake pedal hydraulic pressure to each of the four wheels to prevent wheel lock-up. No matter how hard the driver stomped on the brake pedal the car kept accelerating.

There is another important point to keep in mind. Every car sold in this country regardless of horsepower is equipped with brakes powerful enough to bring it to a stop with a stuck wide open throttle. Consumer Reports recently tested this on several different makes and found it to be true. In addition they tested them with full throttle at 100mph and the brakes still stopped the car.

This might be something for hotrod builders and those who have old cars with 700hp crate engines installed to bear in mind, will they stop under these conditions?

Ford loyalists would also do well to remember the Ford ignition switches of the 70's and 80's which would overheat and start a fire. Major recall with many lawsuits over that one too.

Cars manufacturers all operate about the same. Depending upon the price range you end up having about the number of problems you paid for. All manufacturers occassionally build a great car but they always manage to screw it up by replacing it with the next model they hope you will trade for.
Makes me consider installing some kind of manual "kill" switch. I never believed that the Toyota problem was a real problem until reading your above explanation, thank you for that.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.