1964 Zenith 5111 comes to life!

[Tubejunke]

I mentioned acquiring this metal cabinet "roundie" several months ago. I was looking for a Sams PDF at the time and probably mentioned the sets condition as it was. The set was powered up slow on a 100 watt bulb for maybe an hour and a half. At full potential the horizontal outputs plate was red and there was no HV or sound other than some crackles and pops, and smoke coming from the HV cage. Naturally, I didn't keep it powered up very long in that condition.

The other night I decided to test some tubes and what I found at first attempt was a marginal horizontal oscillator, so I replaced it and the H. output still had a red plate, but not as bad. I saw an arching in the HV rectifier, so I pulled that and the regulator which were both marginal on a basic emissions test (not mutual conductance). The smoke that I mentioned seemed to be coming out of the base that the HV rectifier plugs into. I replaced both of those tubes and powered it back up. BAM! A perfect white (ish) raster that seemed to be stable. Upon another visual inspection I noticed the mixer tube glowing like a light bulb. When I pulled it I could see that it had lost vacuum, or at least some as it had a milky look, yet the filament was not burned out as I presume that it would under zero vacuum. So, I replaced that tube and powered it up again with the VCR attached and next thing I know I am watching one heck of a rich and pure color picture. Frankly, I could not believe the outcome as I have not replaced the first component beyond the tubes mentioned. I have heard about these Zeniths being super tough, but anyone who has read my posts about my trials and tribulations with my 59 24" Space Command that to this day will not play should understand, I began to wonder if Zenith was the product for me.

This story is great, but I don't want to make it too great. The color picture is real nice, all things considered, but there was a touch of bleeding color around images, so I know that some alignment is in order. Too bad I don't possess any of the equipment needed to properly align color TVs. When I push the service switch the horizontal line is mostly white with misalignment on both outside edges, to about 3" inward. Maybe I can touch up the color without any fancy equipment that I don't have the money for, or other than this set, any use for. The rest of my collection is 40-50s black and white. I had a few "roundie" color sets when I was a kid and they could be found pretty cheap, if not free. I just lately started seeing the nostalgia in the early color sets, so I guess I got lucky with a decent Zenith.

[miniman82]

[marty59]

Sounds like you have a convergence issue, provided you can adjust for a decient gray scale and seeing good color and flesh tones being produced afterwords. Let's see some pictures!

[Tubejunke]

OK! Pictures coming as soon as I get some camera batteries..........

[Zenith26kc20]

That's one of my favorite Zeniths! They can produce fantastic pictures!

[Phil Nelson]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

mostly white with misalignment on both outside edges, to about 3" inward. Maybe I can touch up the color without any fancy equipment

In Sams, the convergence board & procedure for your set looks similar to my RCA CTC-11. You don't need fancy equipment to adjust convergence. It is basically looking at the screen and turning the little adjusters. No doubt you'll have an easier time than I did with that CTC-11:

http://antiqueradio.org/RCACTC-11Television.htm

One thing you'll need is a test pattern generator. If you try to adjust convergence while watching live TV or looking at a still picture of Howdy Doody, you'll probably make it worse. In the past I have referred people to a web page that lets you make a test pattern DVD. When I checked that site today, my browser gave me an alert, so nix on that for the moment. You can find used pattern generators pretty cheap at swap meets or on eBay.

For convergence, you use a black and white pattern. I use a crosshatch most of the time.

In terms of order, convergence is just about the last thing you address. Prior to that, you need to have good "black and white" geometry (height, linearity, etc.). You also need to degauss, adjust purity and grayscale, and so on.

Perhaps you lead a charmed life and those old electrolytics will last forever. If it were my set, I'd replace 'em and sleep better at night.

Phil Nelson
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[Tubejunke]

Thanks Phil for the lowdown on setting up the color set. One thing that I can say is that after the second viewing yesterday the "bleeding" was less than the first go around. I have resurrected quite a few old sets that were working when stored and after a little kicking and screaming they come to life and often do OK under my limited viewing demand. It seems to me that after all of those years "asleep", the sets get better and better with limited play sessions. Either that or they play for a few minutes and then give out. I hope this case is the former! Now if I were to try to make something vintage a daily viewer I would definitely want to re-cap the set from the get-go. Right now I simply don't have the money or the time for the recap. I graduate form an electronics degree program in May and hopefully I will be able to find, well, the way thing have changed in America, A JOB! It would be great to land something that pays well in the field straight out of the gate, but I'm not counting on that. I think that this set would be a great candidate for restoration eventually. The control door is a bit tattered and I would like to find a channel knob that is not as well worn as mine.

Anyway, I hope to have some pictures of the set soon since someone informed me that words are no good without pictures. I think I will leave my opinion of the opinion to myself. If I were asking a very technical question in a thread I would see the necessity, and just for the record; I have a dial-up connection, so it is a bit of trouble to upload pictures as compared to a high speed connection. For the money, I'll take dial-up any day over high speed for my current needs. There are libraries and colleges that have all of the high speed that I need! LOL!

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by Zenith26kc20

That's one of my favorite Zeniths! They can produce fantastic pictures!

Thanks! The first thing that I noticed is that the color seems really (looking for the right words) alive(?)! To me the Zenith's color seems as good or better than way more modern standard definition crt sets! We TV people must be as weird as people seem to think that the hobby is! I would just as soon look at this set as some plastic HD flat screen! Certainly I can see that HD is far more, well, defined! LOL! To me the HD picture almost looks unreal where the good tube (crt) sets produced more lifelike images.

[ctc17]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

Thanks Phil for the lowdown on setting up the color set. One thing that I can say is that after the second viewing yesterday the "bleeding" was less than the first go around. I have resurrected quite a few old sets that were working when stored and after a little kicking and screaming they come to life and often do OK under my limited viewing demand. It seems to me that after all of those years "asleep", the sets get better and better with limited play sessions. Either that or they play for a few minutes and then give out. I hope this case is the former!

I see this on just about every used set I wake back up. I call it secondary infant mortality/break in.
I have a feeling its due mostly to things drying out. Moisture in caps, coils and transformers...resistors..everything, as well as the tubes 'burning the dust off'.
Also the parts that are going to fail in the next 2 years will fail in the first few days. Thats the infant mortality part.

[compucat]

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

Thanks! The first thing that I noticed is that the color seems really (looking for the right words) alive(?)! To me the Zenith's color seems as good or better than way more modern standard definition crt sets! We TV people must be as weird as people seem to think that the hobby is! I would just as soon look at this set as some plastic HD flat screen! Certainly I can see that HD is far more, well, defined! LOL! To me the HD picture almost looks unreal where the good tube (crt) sets produced more lifelike images.

I have a 1965 Zenith roundie and I agree that the color is very vibrant. Reds in particular are deep and rich. The flesh tones are warmer than on many modern sets. Although everyone thnks I am weird for this but I actually prefer the round screen shape. I don't really like the 90 degree angles and hard edges of today's rectangular screens. Widescreen is great for movies and computers but I like my TV to be circular or very heavily curved like the 1950s sets.

[marty59]

I've been slowly progressing on my Zenith 5131/chassis 25LC30 but I've got some other projects ahead of it. I do have a soft spot for these old Zenith roundies!
It's good that yours is showing some positive potential as it will be a fun project when the time and resources are there for you.

[Tubejunke]

Originally Posted by compucat

Although everyone thnks I am weird for this but I actually prefer the round screen shape. I don't really like the 90 degree angles and hard edges of today's rectangular screens. Widescreen is great for movies and computers but I like my TV to be circular or very heavily curved like the 1950s sets.

That is exactly the way I am, and always have been. Actually, I think what started my interest in older TVs was seeing sets like this still in living rooms as a kid in the 70s and still as a young adult in the 80s. I remember thinking that they were, in some strange way, simply more interesting to look at; on or off! That interest led me to acquire a few of them at different times throughout the 80s. I would simply wander into one of the then plentiful TV repair shops where they would often have repaired sets that people had not come back to pay the bill on. Sometimes they would give me sets gladly to make room. Seems like I paid $10 for a nice remote RCA set that performed fine for a few years. Eventually the remote control section started acting up, so I just turned it off. Heck, even in the 80s having remote control was still a non-essential creature comfort and it really didn't matter. It was cool if you had it, and still OK if you didn't. Back then, even if you had upgraded from rabbit ears to cable, there was still only a small portion of the available channels compared to today with a few hundred useless DirecTV. At first there was no "cable box" with remote; the coax just plugged into your antenna adapter. Funny thing to me is even though I have DirecTV, I still only watch about the same amount of channels as I would have with basic cable, not many more than the antenna days which we got around five clear channels.

My dislike of a rectangular screen runs so deep that I actually tried to convert my 1947 RCA 8T-243 set from one of the old fake rectangular viewing areas over a round tube to the "double D", but I never came up with the parts. Really, it would destroy any antiquity or value that the set has, but like most hobbies, I have learned that it's best to just enjoy what you have as opposed to worrying about what it is worth to a certain degree. In the case of the old 47 RCA, I would probably be hard pressed to get rid of the set for what the tubes and capacitors are worth. On a final note, I am glad that more interest is rising in 50s sets. I have always liked the space age look of those sets and often surprised at how little interest existed in them. I have found them at dumpsites more than anywhere else. Even though the CRTs are rectangular, they still possess a unique look I think, and many of them are far easier to work on than the 40s sets in my opinion. I must add that through all of my old color sets, the backup set was always my 56 Philco 21". The set still performs well today!

[miniman82]

Just a reminder..

[Tubejunke]

Look man, I have addressed your perception and opinion ONCE! Here's a picture: When I get an email reminder showing this crap, all I see is how "worthless" my thread is to YOU! My advice would be to not view it if it bothers you so much that not everyone needs, or even has a way to produce pictures for you. This is not your thread, or your site, but you do have the right to your opinion. I took a few years out of my life to ensure that! I have been posting here for years; sometimes with, and other times without pictures, but I have always found people to be friendly and helpful no matter what. Can we please keep it that way?

Originally Posted by miniman82

Just a reminder..

[miniman82]

I don't think this thread is worthless, I just really wanna see it! My intention was not to inflame, but obviously you perceived my post the wrong way.

Originally Posted by Tubejunke

I took a few years out of my life to ensure that!

FYI, I still wear the uniform...