I have a CRT rebuilding station

[dreyfoos]

Rather than add to the current threads “Will CRT Rebuilders Disappear…,” or “If a Picture Tube…,” I have decided to advance the discussion with a new thread. The CRT rebuild topic – so vital to the hobby - might even justify a sticky.

I have a never used CRT rebuilding station. It is a product of C.R.T. Equipment Company of Nashville and it was shipped in 1970. It was listed on eBay last February but closed with no takers. I had many reservations about making this rescue attempt but I could imagine it in a museum if nothing else. It was in imminent danger of being parted out for the motor, pump, and steel. This is heavy equipment. The fact that it was less than an hour by pickup truck from my location made it possible. The owner accepted my offer and it now sits in my San Francisco Bay area garage. This outfit was designed for a mom and pop TV repair shop – artisan work – in limited space – one jug at a time. It’s not a multi-tube production outfit, not automated, but it is state of the art – for the 1960’s. It consists of two units: first there is the impressive vertical lathe with a variac on the motor and with oxygen and natural gas jets for welding necks, neck-gun units, buttons, or whatever is needed. Second, there is the gas oven to bake gasses out of the glass and a two-stage pump system to evacuate the air. There’s a tipoff coil and an RF bomber (using big ol’ honkin’ jumbo tubes) to vaporize or flash the new gun’s getter material in 20 seconds or so by induction heating through the glass neck of the tube. There is a panel of gauges and switches and pots to monitor and control voltages, current draw, etc. including the process of aging the new rebuild.

The story goes that the kit had been purchased by a father who was trying to set his son up in a business. Apparently this was bad timing as the rebuild business was fading fast by the time this was shipped in 1970 – and the son must have had other fish to fry. So it sat in the San Jose garage for 36 years until it appeared in an estate sale. This kit came with a variety of small hand tools such as the hot wire neck cutter, a file to nick the glass, a ruler for neck length, and the heater to soften and collapse (tip off) the glass evacuation tube to seal the new vacuum. It even included some now unlabeled chemical – probably for cleaning the tube necks. Yes, it also came with a few trays of new guns and bases. The assortment was what you would expect for 1970. There are some for the old roundie black and whites as well as for the 21 inch roundie colors. There are also some that would be for the newer 110 degree small neck tubes. The problem with the guns is, that if nothing else, the barium getter material has not aged well. It’s kinda “gone.” It’s been a long time since I worked in the chemistry area and my duties had nothing to do with getter chemistry but I have read that the shelf life for the getter material is more like days than months and certainly not years. The kit also included an interesting factory instruction manual. Alas, it does not even include a schematic of the RF unit – but that’s not a big deal. The real hitch is that it doesn’t include a Harry Potter wizard to fill in all the gaps – the “black art” that would give the first tube out of the oven a high probability of success. There is enough variability in the dud, the equipment, the operator, etc., that one really needs the voice of experience looking over one’s shoulder.

So, I wrote an e-mail to Scotty at Hawkeye last summer but for some reason have never received any response. I tried to make it clear that my goal was not to compete with him because we all know that old TV restoration is a moderately costly and crazy hobby – not a moneymaker. We will pony up $38 each for Moto 7 gaskets but Ed’s Radio Service will be doing well to break even after meeting the initial demand. We are collectors because we need the challenge and, also, for the memories – not for the bank account. My concern – that others have voiced – is that the Hawkeye operation in Iowa is the last “goin’ Jesse” that we know of, and who knows whether it will continue for days or years – nobody’s immortal. When all the black and white roundie tubes finally run out of cathode – or simply don’t exist – In fifty years – or whenever – I would like to think that a backup plan would be in place that will allow our collections to outlive us. I suggested to Scotty that he allow me to schedule a visit and make a high resolution historical video record of the A to Z of a rebuild – a day in the life of a picture tube rebuilder. I also suggested that it be done on one of my duds – at his going price, of course. My purpose would be to try to get some of that “black art” recorded for posterity. So far, I’ve found no written procedure for the steps in a rebuild other than what I have in the instruction book for this set of equipment. If any of you could step forward with tales from your misspent youth as an apprentice in a rebuilding operation or with some bound or loose leaf pages entitled “Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about Pix Tube Rebuilding” then it would be most welcome. There should be exploration of this topic in the old magazines for the service trade. Or, if you are a museum or an individual who wants to dedicate the space or even a chunk of your time towards getting at least one tube out the door to prove that it can be done with this equipment, then let’s talk. This equipment is “priceless” but if whoever ends up with it might consider giving me the firstborn or two as a token of appreciation. The garage where it now resides also houses my own collection and is not the space it needs. It needs a natural gas supply and oxygen, water for cooling the pump, and it’s own circuit breaker. The equipment’s footprint is only about 3’ by 8’ but you would probably need at least a bench of that same size and space for oxygen tanks, etc. The gun challenge: I have no idea who Hawkeye’s source is. Steve McVoy might have a lead. I suspect that the N.O.S. guns I have could be “refreshed.” I also agree that China or Eastern Europe tube factories are a possibility and I have a Chinese-American friend who could translate the needed inquiries. Perhaps a 50+ year-old used gun could be rebuilt. This isn’t rocket science – just simple Harry Potter magic stuff. Hey, is this really that much more difficult than the Moto 7 gasket challenge? As Steve also mentioned, the best way would be for someone to apprentice to Scotty long enough sweep floors and learn the art. Would anyone else care to approach Scotty on this? Does he have a son ready to step into his shoes? Hello? Save those duds! …Roger Dreyfoos

[freakaftr8]

Wow, and I have a machine shop, family owned and plenty of power, water, gas and space too!! This sounds cool!!! Of course the trick is getter material, guns and knowledge....

[Steve McVoy]

We have space at the Early Television Museum for the setup, and would be willing to pay the cost to get it to us and to set it up. What we need is a person (or people) who would be willing to learn the art and use the equipment. We'd also pay for the operating costs.

[freakaftr8]

Thats awesome!!! Im willing, but too far away... That would be a great thing to have in addition to your museum Steve! If you could produce an operaing 15GP22 you would be rockin the casbah my friend!! Could you imagine rebuilding a 1954 color tube to produce what today's crt can produce! OMG the clarity and contrast advantage would be absolutly remarkabe!

[freakaftr8]

We have engine lathes, experience in glasswork ie carbide cutting and the sort and the cnc machining centers to provide the construction of new guns! Wish I knew the electronics end of it.. Steve, with any drawn up prints or just samples, we could make magic happen! You get the machine, we could provide parts! In a perfect world this could work... But this is reality, we could give it a go.

[Phil Nelson]

Originally Posted by Steve McVoy

We have space at the Early Television Museum for the setup, and would be willing to pay the cost to get it to us and to set it up. What we need is a person (or people) who would be willing to learn the art and use the equipment. We'd also pay for the operating costs.

An offer that's hard to refuse!! The museum seems like the perfect place for this outfit.

The missing link is finding someone willing & able to learn the arts of rebuilding. I'd volunteer to help in a heartbeat, but I live 2400 miles from Hilliard -- a daunting commute :-)

I like the idea of documenting as completely as possible how this is done. Not only for practical purposes, but as a piece of history that's disappearing before our eyes. A video would show you things that a written description couldn't capture. Perhaps augmented with a lot of written notes or follow-up audio tapes.

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html

[radio63]

Originally Posted by freakaftr8

Could you imagine rebuilding a 1954 color tube to produce what today's crt can produce! OMG the clarity and contrast advantage would be absolutly remarkabe!

The early round tubes are totally different in color rendition from today's CRTs. You would NOT want to make an early color tube reproduce images like a modern CRT, the phosphors and construction are completely different. The look of the early round tubes is unique. Besides, if you rebuilt early round CRTs you would not be replacing the phosphors that give that unique color rendition, just the gun assembly. The early sets, when set up properly, have as much "clarity and contrast" as any modern NTSC receiver.

Gilbert

[ohohyodafarted]

How strange it is that this topic came up. Only yesterday I wrote to Steve McVoy relating a conversation I had with Scotty about a month ago. I discussed the subject of making a video of his craft to document the process for all of us collectors. Scotty agreed to allow me to make a video of the rebuilding process. I have been waiting to hear from Scotty as to when he is going to make the next attempt on the 15GP22 project. When he has set a date, I will be traveling to Iowa to spend a couple of days observing and taking video of Scotty working his craft.

I would then take the raw footage and make a nice DVD using the video editing software I have. Steve has volunteered to place the video on the ETF website for anyone to view. I will also make available DVD's for anyone that wants one.

So the video end of this thing is already in the works. Just need to coordinate with Scotty's next attempt at the 15G project.

I will post back here as soon as I know something more definite.

Bob

[compucat]

Originally Posted by ohohyodafarted

How strange it is that this topic came up. Only yesterday I wrote to Steve McVoy relating a conversation I had with Scotty about a month ago. I discussed the subject of making a video of his craft to document the process for all of us collectors. Scotty agreed to allow me to make a video of the rebuilding process. I have been waiting to hear from Scotty as to when he is going to make the next attempt on the 15GP22 project. When he has set a date, I will be traveling to Iowa to spend a couple of days observing and taking video of Scotty working his craft.

I would then take the raw footage and make a nice DVD using the video editing software I have. Steve has volunteered to place the video on the ETF website for anyone to view. I will also make available DVD's for anyone that wants one.

So the video end of this thing is already in the works. Just need to coordinate with Scotty's next attempt at the 15G project.

I will post back here as soon as I know something more definite.

Bob

Scotty rebuilt my 21FJP22. I would love to see how he does it. This whole thing sounds promising for the future of vintage TV. All of us who collect vintage TVs or just have one that is used regularly are likely to need CRTs at some point.

[Steve McVoy]

Scotty has said that he plans to retire at some point, apparently in the not too distant future. I'd like to come up with a plan to be able to rebuild tubes when that happens.

He charges about $250 to rebuild tubes, and I assume that we wouldn't be able to rebuild them any cheaper. Today there are only a few tubes that collectors would pay that much for: 21 inch color tubes, 7DP4, 30BP4 and, of course the 15GP22. Good 3KP4s are going for close to $200, while good 7JP4s bring $100 or so. I would guess that it won't be too many years until these tubes will be worth $250. 10BP4s and 12K/LP4s are more common, but at some point the supply will dissapear.

So, I'd like to explore the possibility of rebuilding the 3KP4, 7JP4, 7DP4, 10BP4, 12K/LP4, 30BP4, as well as the 15G and 21 inch color tubes.

As I see it, the issues are: 1) Will the setup that Dreyfoos has do these tubes? 2) Who would learn the art, and who would produce the tubes once we learned how to do the, and 3) is it economically feasible, or would the tubes cost more to rebuild than they are worth to collecctors.

I'd like to hear comments and ideas.

[bgadow]

Very exciting news. I hope it can be worked out. One thing I have noticed in reading different accounts is that there was more than one method of rebuilding tubes. Not major differences, but differences. There are some folks hidden out there who could be helpful. Who, for example, was the fellow who built the crt out of a coke bottle?

[Steve McVoy]

Roger, could you scan the instruction book and send it to me? I'd like to see what is involved. stevemcvoy@gmail.com

Thanks

[kbmuri]

I have room for a CRT rebuilding station and the desire to learn how to use it and a no-fear attitude, but couldn't travel to Columbus anytime soon and would only want to do it as an owner, not an employee. I'll keep an eye out for the next one, and maybe give you guys some competition someday.

[Chad Hauris]

I think it would be a great idea for the Early Television museum to offer the service...as a non-profit corporation I would think you could offer the service as needed as long as you had the equipment and help to rebuild the tubes. It wouldn't be under the same market pressures as a commercial company which would need to make a profit on CRT rebuilds to stay in business.
I would think you could just keep the equipment on standby until you have a call for a rebuild. You may be able to get volunteers to help do the process and the proceeds would fund the museum budget.

The ability to rebuild CRT's will be invaluable especially in the future.

[Steve McVoy]

Ideally, I'd like to see several volunteers who would learn the process and use the equipment periodically to rebuild tubes. I doubt if this could ever result in any income for the museum. The goal would be to make available rebuilt tubes that weren't available elsewhere.

kbmuri, I don't envision a "owner"/"employee" relationship here. We would provide the facilities, volunteers would make tubes for themselves and other collectors.