= Cars Stalling today leads to crashes and lawsuites =

[Rod Beauvex]

There was a four speed option, but it was rare.

[KentTeffeteller]

Carburetors revived. Problem is the things known as CAFE and Eco Freaks. Fuel injection and computers won't go away as long as there is EPA. As long as there are safety Nazis in the DOT, Air Bags and ABS won't go away either. GM stalling is not new either. Remember the old 1987 Port Fuel Injected Oldsmobile Gutless Ciera S (stood for S+++). GM too often stands for FUBAR today. Eco freaks, DOT, EPA or no. Most GM I refuse to trust post RWD and simple old school tech they knew how to build. Why, until they provide me with service loaners I can actually drive. (with hand controls). I refuse to buy them. I know they will break and often. GM doesn't want my business. Case in point. 2007 GM full size van. 67,000 miles. Three automatic transmissions, two front ends. One engine. Dealership maintained on time. Driven gently. Took reading them the riot act to get them to assist with repairing it. Ford on the other hand bent over backwards to treat me well with a vehicle at that job. And their dealer ate one expensive repair. And fought with the Zone manager to make it right. I'll consider better Fords. No more GM. I'd rather have Toyota or Honda when I need it to last.

[Jon A.]

Originally Posted by KentTeffeteller

Carburetors revived. Problem is the things known as CAFE and Eco Freaks. Fuel injection and computers won't go away as long as there is EPA. As long as there are safety Nazis in the DOT, Air Bags and ABS won't go away either. GM stalling is not new either. Remember the old 1987 Port Fuel Injected Oldsmobile Gutless Ciera S (stood for S+++). GM too often stands for FUBAR today. Eco freaks, DOT, EPA or no. Most GM I refuse to trust post RWD and simple old school tech they knew how to build.

Look at what happened in Ghostbusters when the EPA got involved. Seriously though, if drivers want more safety, they have to learn to actually drive, which won't happen with today's sorry excuses for cars.

Here's a RWD GM that's stood the test of time. This car is driven regularly. I suppose it developed a windscreen leak as there was no breakage under that tarp.

[rca2000]

Back in a "different world " (early 1992), I owned a 1987 Buick Riviera. good car, liked it. I really enjoyed it's high-tech features at the time. BUT--not long after I got it in I think December of 91...I discovered why it had been sold. It normally ran VERY well and smoothly, and the 3.8 PFI engine was not exactly a weakling. BUT..every once in awhile...it would begin to 'surge" in rpm's, cough....and then DIE. This usually happened (IIRC) when I was NOT under power, particularly during coasting down a hill or such.

One particular time...this happened at night.. when I was just out "fooling around" and driving for the heck of it. I was in or near Batavia Ohio, near that nice hill known around here as "devils backbone", due to its steepness and many curves down it's path. The car was running fine, BUT had stalled once or twice earlier that night. It WOULD instantly restart..BUT since it had automatic headlights....if it DID die....and you went to re-start...the lights would go OUT--while starting. Normally--this is NOT a big deal...BUT if you are descending a steep, curvy hill at night it is.

As I began down Devils backbone...the engine began surging , coughed a couple of times and then DIED. NOW_-if I HAD tried to re-start...I would have lost my lights..SO--I had to ride ALL the way down the hill...with NO engine, power brakes or steering !! Thank the LORD...no one was coming up that hill as I came down dead like that....as I am SURE I would have hit them--it was NOT at all easy to keep from running off the road coming down a steep hill at night....with manual EVERYTHING !!

VERY soon after this...I heard about a stall recall....GM paid to put in a new PROM and I THINK MAF sensor and coil pack too IIRC...That DID fix the problem.

[KentTeffeteller]

What part of stalling is unsafe don't you understand? Ever nearly dislocated a shoulder when you lost steering and have to steer one handed? I have. Stick shift not an option. I am required to have Automatic Transmission, Power Steering, Power Brakes, Hand Controls, and a Steering Knob for driving. My license states so. Stalling and the car dying is white knuckle. GM right now makes too much junk. Unsafe junk. They need to fix it. The Pontiac you posted is a great car. I had a 1981 Pontiac LeMans wagon, my first car. The best GM i ever owned.

[dishdude]

Maybe I am just lucky, but I have had good luck with recent GM cars. It seems like all the cars produced today are pretty much the same in the reliability department.

[maxhifi]

When my 1969 ford pickup would stall because I had the choke set wrong (i.e. took it off a bit too soon before the engine was warmed up and stepped on the accelerator), I would just depress the clutch and start it again while still rolling... no power brakes or power steering to lose, and the lights were just lights.

Now my new truck has never stalled on me, and it while DOES have a vacuum booster on the brakes, it doesn't have power steering, I am completely confident I could handle a stall without any issues at all.

On the other hand, I had a Mazda whose idle would randomly surge, and that was downright dangerous, especially on ice, it would randomly kick sideways and start to fishtail. I would WAY rather be dealing with the stalling old Ford than surging idle.

[rca2000]

My old Riv was JUST a "bit" higher tech than your 1969 was. I think it had 8 or MORE computers...PFI injection and coil pack ignition...Not all that much simpler engine-wise than many of the cars today--that still use PFI.

[maxhifi]

Originally Posted by rca2000

My old Riv was JUST a "bit" higher tech than your 1969 was. I think it had 8 or MORE computers...PFI injection and coil pack ignition...Not all that much simpler engine-wise than many of the cars today--that still use PFI.

The Ford had a Carter 1bbl carburetor, which I rebuilt myself when it got plugged up. I really liked that truck, but the body was just too far gone. Advances in vehicles are nice, and they have sure improved in almost every measurable way, but there's something nice about the keep it simple stupid approach... I wish you could buy such a simple vehicle today ... Points ignition... no catalytic converter to worry about, no 02 sensor, no computers, no plastic covers on the engine or sensors to fail. manual choke, I would pay a premium for it. A tune up takes a couple hours on a Saturday, big deal.

[dtvmcdonald]

The only car I had that ever stalled was a 1975 Corvette, and it did
it at 70% of stop signs (avoidable with very fancy three pedals at once
footwork). I tried getting the dealer to fix
it under warranty ... 12 times. They kept replacing parts
and no change. Idiots.

I figured 13 was too much and went to a hot rod shop. An hour,
a $12 part (some sort of timing thingie) and a tiny little drill
for the the carburetor nozzles and it worked perfectly.

The power was still low so I had a dual exhaust installed and the
catalytic convertor removed (which became illegal in a couple
of years, but grandfathered in).

[DaveWM]

I had a 67 pontiac tempest that would suddenly stall (total loss of electrical) I learned to make sure I kept momentum up when making turns (esp left) and other little tricks. I eventually found the problem (defective fire wall connector plug). It did not have power brakes and was a bear to stop esp if it rained (all four drums) was a pig but a nice highway cruiser, a 326 with a 2bbl carb and a two speed auto.

I also had a datsun 1200 while in college, I remember when the starter went out I went a full semester buy parking on a hill (hard to find in florida, so had to find parking lots with slight inclines) so I could bump start it (4sp man clutch).

some times when there was no hill I would open the door and push start it, running inside the open door and the car body, jump in when I got it a few mph, and do a quick bump start. often take several trys, but always did get it going. Good way to stay in shape eventually I got the 20$ up and got a starter for it. 2 door, no AC, man choke, power nothing and 35mpg back in the 70's only safety item was seat belts.