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Old 11-11-2010, 12:39 AM
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Tubejunke Tubejunke is offline
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What's so great about RCA?

I recently made a couple of posts in regards to my latest addition which happened to be a Zenith 5111 metal cabinet "roundie" and it didn't take me long to notice that RCA is the most talked about TV on the color TV forum. It's just sort of an odd disappointment to be honest because I haven't messed with any color television in quite a while and I hoped that there would be plenty of posts relating to my set. While I have been on the black and while forum for a number of years I have enjoyed all of the stories of sets made by various interesting, if not downright odd manufacturers. People don't really ever seem to hung up on one thing except maybe, you guessed it, it's an early RCA. I believe it is a model 630-TS or something.

The only real complaint I have with the real old school crowd is the fact that they do sort of keep what is deemed "collectable" or valuable boxed into the forties "roundie" sets. Well, there just isn't enough of that stuff floating around for us all to enjoy. I get aggravated because I have had great looking 50s sets that you can't even give away, much less make a few bucks on. I am glad that the stuff is not sky high, but 50's sets should be more appreciated I think. They look great, often perform well, and the typical 21" crt is plenty of viewing area. The mid fifties Philcos' are bulletproof in my book with a simple and lightweight chassis; they make a nice daily user. Zeniths are supposed to be bulletproof as well, but the only one that I have, a 1958 Space Command, has some weird short that I cant seem to find, something in the vertical output circuit I think.

I will say that I have searched the Color Television forum for Zenith posts and there are some people who seem to think that Zenith sets are desirable and perform well. It seems like I had at least one as a kid when people would often give them (older round tube color sets) to you because they had updated to a rectangular solid state set. I don't remember it being any better or worse than other brands from that era; nothing I owned anyway.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:46 AM
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I think it boils down to the fact that RCA just sold more than anyone else.
Zenith didn't even sell a color set until 1962, RCA basically invented them.

RCA had several firsts, The 630 621 were 1946 sets so they are as old as you can go in post war collecting, the CT-100 was the first Color set and is a legend, not to mention scarce.

There are other early color sets far more rare than the CT-100 but there are so few of them they don't get much attention.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:15 AM
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I think Eric hit the nail on the head. I have three RCA roundies because that's the only brand I have run across. I'd love to find some other brand of early color set, but it's hard to buy something that nobody's selling.

I agree it's kind of a shame that many 1950s B/W sets are unappreciated. I see them all the time on craigslist, but I don't have a vacant warehouse to fill with unwanted TVs, and I would never live long enough to restore them all, anyway.

Phil
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:56 AM
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I know exactly what you mean, and I have thought the same thing. I have noticed that when it comes to early color sets, it's always a RCA CT-something-or-another. Given that RCA dominated the field from the very beginning, the earliest of which are still next-to-impossible to find, they just naturally reign supreme with most enthusiasts. I can only imagine how frustrating that might be when you're looking for advice on something that's outside of the RCA circle. I personally haven't ran across an early color set, and I doubt I'll find one anytime soon. But, I have noticed similar trends with b&w sets.

For instance, the RCA 630-TS you mentioned, has brought nearly $3,000 in some recent auctions. Those early post-war tabletop sets really command some premium prices and I'm always interested in learning more about them. However, would I personally pay $3,000 for such a television? Not on your life! When I set out to acquire an vintage set, the idea of a television from the 1940's didn't so much as cross my mind. I was hooked on anything 1950's. I'm just a 50's junkie, whether it be music, clothes, cars, I'm there. Now some are calling things from this decadent era "mid-century" which not only makes it seem way longer ago than it actually was, but it's a word that's typically in use in your average Ebay auction/consignment shop atmosphere. In other words, people who stand to make a lot of money off something they found at a yard sale.

The set I finally found ( and believe me, in this neck of the woods I won't likely find another ) was a '53 Zenith for $25. It's a modest set, even by 1953 standards, and for the vision I had in mind, it fits perfectly. But, if I was to put up my Zenith for sale tomorrow, even as it sits with $150 worth of new parts in it, I probably couldn't come close to a quarter of that figure. Honestly, since I love sets of this vintage, I'm not complaining in the least that they don't command the same interest as the earlier sets. That just keeps the prices down, but of course, since I already scored mine for $25 it's not like I'm out shopping for another.

Still, I understand exactly what you mean. It does seem like there's a lot more vintage sets out there that would be "more interesting" to some of us than what seems to be hot in the hobby at the moment. Just as with car collectors, the rare gems will naturally be first priorities. I think that with time, some of the lesser-appreciated sets will get their due.

After-all, at one time, 4-door '57 Bel-Air's got the cold shoulder, too... just because they had a couple extra doors.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:30 AM
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sampson159 sampson159 is offline
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rca sets were plentiful.with there association with nbc,they had much advertisement,etc.they were on display everywhere as rca flooded the market.i can remember going to the big box stores back in the 60s and the televisions on display would be 75-80 percent rca.this is in columbus,ohio.the zeniths came along when the rectangular screen became popular.i think it depended on the region you lived in.here we had rca and later on sylvania sets were sold in droves.not too many zeniths available here.when we had them come in the shop,they were at least 5-6 years old.they didnt break down much.many people here are still watching those "g" chassis zenith chromacolor sets.as far as roundies go,the ctc 15 and 16 are among the easiest to find and may be the best roundies.the zenith roundies did produce the best picture and to have another one of those would be a dream.not interested in any other roundie.okay,maybe a magnavox combo.they have dynamite stereos.i have an airline combo right now.i havent touched it since we carried this monster home.sitting in storage gathering dust.it came form pittsburgh originally.as i said,here in columbus,ohio,rca dominated the roundie market.then around 1966-67,sun tv came along and they pushed sylvanias exclusively.we saw many of these in for repair.
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:49 AM
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I love my old sets. I dont really like being referred to as 'old school.' Since when is 'new school' so much better? I have a feeling that I learned alot more in school than some did.

I worked for a shop back in the day that made a fortune on flyback replacements on RCA sets, along with lots of Magnavox sets. One of my jobs was flyback replacements, along with cleaning the shop, etc. I was having a ball, and learning.

Funny, we rarely saw a Zenith. Saw lots of Sylvania and Philco sets.

I've had my CTC-10C roundie since 1975, and its biggest problem was bad ground points on the PCB's, and cracks in the solder under tube sockets. I re-flowed the solder on the vertical PCB, and the horizontal oscillator PCB and cured all that was acting up on my set.

Other than a new 6AQ5 audio output about 5 years ago, and a new CRT in the mid '80's, maintenance has been minimal.

If I find one, I sure won't turn down a roundie set.
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Old 11-11-2010, 09:16 AM
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Rca layed the ground work

I think it all boils down to the fact that Gen David Sarnoff was a visionary and wasn't going to let anything stand in the way of his dreams. The battle for early color and the personnalities involved was lengendary. Gen. Sarnoff attacked the color issue the same way he would have attacked any battle in the war. The fact that Rca owned both a tv network and a tv manufacturing facility didn't hurt their cause also.

Don't get me wrong Zenith is an outstanding company, but they also saw the fact that Rca was going to spend whatever it took to get color tv off the ground, meanwhile Zenith engineers were busy perfecting their own circuit designs and finally in 1962 released the 29jc20 chassis to the public.

I still say the battle for color television would make a great mini series on tv. Here you have William S. Palley vs Gen Sarnoff facing off in the initial battle just like Patton va Rommel. The fact that there were more early Rca color sets produced leads back directly back to the fact that most companies took a wait and see approach to color.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampson159 View Post
rca sets were plentiful.with there association with nbc,they had much advertisement,etc.they were on display everywhere as rca flooded the market.i can remember going to the big box stores back in the 60s and the televisions on display would be 75-80 percent rca.this is in columbus,ohio.the zeniths came along when the rectangular screen became popular.i think it depended on the region you lived in.here we had rca and later on sylvania sets were sold in droves.not too many zeniths available here.when we had them come in the shop,they were at least 5-6 years old.they didnt break down much.many people here are still watching those "g" chassis zenith chromacolor sets.as far as roundies go,the ctc 15 and 16 are among the easiest to find and may be the best roundies.the zenith roundies did produce the best picture and to have another one of those would be a dream.not interested in any other roundie.okay,maybe a magnavox combo.they have dynamite stereos.i have an airline combo right now.i havent touched it since we carried this monster home.sitting in storage gathering dust.it came form pittsburgh originally.as i said,here in columbus,ohio,rca dominated the roundie market.then around 1966-67,sun tv came along and they pushed sylvanias exclusively.we saw many of these in for repair.
I will be moving my stuff to a new location soon.- I have a NUMBER of things I do NOT want to move. one is a CTC-15 or 16 RCA combo, with a hybrid stereo. All there--condition unknown.

Come and get it. I might even let go of the other ctc-16 set i have that DID produce a raster some years ago.And I will throw in the ctc-15 philco set , bad cabinet--but all there--too.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:45 AM
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Look at all the clone sets that were produced based on the RCA design plus all the patents that were held by them. Yes, there was a dominance for better or worse and you can't ignore that. Even today, finding vintage RCA sets and parts still dominate..that's just the way it is.

Tubejunke, while your post comes off as a bit of a rant (and I mean this nicely) you do have some valid observations. But I hope you notice though our posts that there is a deep appreciation for all sets vintage and some here may have their preferences but that doesn't diminish from others' desires.

I do like sets that were produced during the fifties and not only are they cheaper (and yes maybe under-appreciated as Phil stated) than most others of vintage, I see them as an excellant starting point for anyone to get involved with and to learn on.

Now about that "old school" comment.....
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:02 AM
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AUdubon5425 AUdubon5425 is offline
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I think around Chicago you might find more Zenith, Admiral, Magnavox and Motorola because that was their home base. Same as finding Packard Bell and Hoffman on the west coast and Sylvania, Westinghouse, Emerson, DuMont and Philco in the northeast. But RCA (along with GE) had huge national distribution.

Personally, it doesn't bother me that the collecting community finds certain sets more desirable than others. I'm in this for my own personal enjoyment. I have many radios, turntables, televisions and a couple of old cars with more money sunk into them than I'll ever recover in a sale.
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:44 AM
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RCA was a big company, and had resources to develop and market NTSC color TV. And Sarnoff had enough pull to keep at it for 15 or more years before color TV finally became popular. Having the NBC TV network didn't hurt either.

RCA had that R&D lab in Princeton NJ, where they did many patents on TV. I used to work there until RCA ceased to exist as a real company (that's when GE raped and pillaged it).
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:07 PM
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From an ethical standpoint, RCA should be shunned, as David Sarnoff was basically Russian mafia man, who stole most of RCA's technology from others, and he was responsible for the suicide of Edwin H. Armstrong, and would crush any smaller company who might have had a better idea than his.

Zenith was among the crushed, after Sarnoff just about sued them out of business in the early 50s over a Zenith color TV prototype. That's one reason why Zenith was unable to put out a color TV for nearly 10 years after RCA, and the other companies who sold relabeled RCA color sets.

Charles
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
I will be moving my stuff to a new location soon.- I have a NUMBER of things I do NOT want to move. one is a CTC-15 or 16 RCA combo, with a hybrid stereo. All there--condition unknown.

Come and get it. I might even let go of the other ctc-16 set i have that DID produce a raster some years ago.And I will throw in the ctc-15 philco set , bad cabinet--but all there--too.
Let me know I can drive over from South bend and pick up a set.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:04 PM
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These were the reasons why my late Father In Law always had a preference for Zeniths...
He used to joke that RCA Engineers were so well staffed based on all the components they designed into the circuitry to justify thier existance!!
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:31 PM
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RCA (Thomson) had its share of problems with its sets from the '90s (CTC-177 to CTC-202), but every once in a while a trouble-free set would appear. My CTC-185 19" table model is a case in point. I purchased this set new in late 1999, and have had only one repair on it -- the antenna/cable connector snapped off the tuner PC board, probably due to poor soldering at the factory. But once that was repaired (and the ground points resoldered around the tuner), the set never gave me five minutes worth of trouble, and it gets used around here quite a bit in the evenings.

RCA/Thomson finally got it right when, beginning with the CTC-203, they started mounting the tuner remotely from the chassis. The onboard tuners were giving them no end of problems, especially when the grounds gave way and noise got into the jungle IC -- corrupting the tuner programming and causing other problems as well. (I have been told my set would have had problems like this and would not have lasted as long as it has, had I not had the tuner grounds resoldered properly.)

RCA's reputation as "the most automatic television in America" (as their 1960s-'70s ads proclaimed) remains spotless, even in the present Thomson/TTE era. I have not had to readjust the on-screen picture controls on my set for quite a long while -- as a rule, all I do is turn on the set, select the channel I want to watch, and forget the rest; the TV's excellent control circuits keep the picture rock-stable and the colors beautiful. Sound is not an issue for me because my hearing isn't that good; my set only has one small speaker in the left baffle (the right one is empty -- the cabinet in which my set is housed must have also been used for certain MTS stereo RCA TVs made within roughly the same time frame as mine was).

BTW, does anyone have any info on the "ON" Corporation, as applied to today's RCA televisions? I have noticed this corporation being mentioned in recent RCA literature online, and I'm curious to know what connections or associations this firm has with today's RCA. Is it a division of (or a successor to) Thomson? If not, is the ON Corporation a separate entity that is now using the current RCA block logo under license, but is not associated in any way with RCA or Thomson?
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