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  #16  
Old 03-10-2005, 09:41 PM
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That's another reason to have Tooob stuff-about all solid state devices could be rendered inoperative by EMP blast, while tube stuff should still function unless stressed by a fireball, or until AC power cuts out. EMP could also make 99% of the cars in America inoperative-only the ones that don't have electronic ignitions would be able to run. There's a novel called "War Day" that talks about the aftermath of a nuclear war-it will chill your shit. Seriously. -Sandy G.
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  #17  
Old 03-11-2005, 02:12 AM
heathkit tv
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And I'll be driving around in one of my Studebakers with a giant gas tank and boxes filled with home loaded bullets. Mad Max ain't got nuthin on me!

Anthony (waiting for those pretty mushroom clouds)
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  #18  
Old 03-11-2005, 12:16 PM
jimmymagick jimmymagick is offline
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More on number stations...

Here's what "The Straight Dope" had to say about the subject:



Dear Cecil:

While scanning the shortwave radio bands recently, I discovered a station broadcasting five-digit numbers in Spanish. Each number was repeated twice before a new one was broadcast. It was a little strange, but I figured I had stumbled onto the Cuban Lotto numbers station.

Then last night I picked up a similar broadcast in English. It lasted about 25 minutes, then ended abruptly. A fellow shortwave enthusiast says these "numbers stations" are a big mystery and may somehow be tied into the CIA or drug smuggling!

The FCC and CIA were no help, so I turn to you. --Michael P., Chicago

Dear Michael:

It's spies, likely.

There are dozens of "numbers stations," some of which have been in business for decades. Yet no government or private agency has ever acknowledged them.

The stations broadcast in a variety of formats (three, four, and five digits, etc.) in languages ranging from English and Spanish to Czech, Korean, and Serbo-Croatian. The voice is often female and its unchanging inflection suggests that it may be machine-generated, like those wrong-number recordings used by the phone company.

At least some of the numbers stations are broadcasting coded messages. The messages have a definite beginning and end, start with an indication of how many number groups the message will contain, repeat each group carefully, and use standard-sized code groups (i.e., four or five digits), a universal feature of modern cryptography.

David Wise's book The Spy Who Got Away (1988), about a CIA defector, offers the following insight into how the codes (or at least some of them) work:

"A former CIA case officer with long experience in Moscow explained that ... 'a transmitter is set up in Germany or even at [CIA] headquarters in Langley [Virginia]. The agent knows that at certain times on certain nights you will transmit to him, normally in five digit code groups. He is given a [one- time pad, or OTP], of which only one other copy exists, which the sender has.'

"The pages of a one-time pad consist of different, random five- digit groups of numbers that are used to encipher messages with the aid of a matrix, or number grid, that can be read much like the coordinates of a road map.

"Each page is destroyed after use. Since only one other copy of the pad exists, the code is unbreakable. The agent uses his copy of the one-time pad to decipher the message.

"The old Moscow hand explained what happens next. 'The OTP is on edible paper. Once he deciphers the message, he tears the pages out, burns them, flushes them down the toilet, or eats them--however he's been instructed. You can use [this] voice link to confirm or change a meeting.'

"He paused and smiled. 'Sometimes we would broadcast code groups just to make the Soviets think we had a lot of assets even if we didn't.'"

Interestingly, the volume of coded message traffic doesn't seem to have dropped appreciably with the end of the Cold War. I suppose that only makes sense. Even if you were running fewer spies than you used to, you'd keep the code numbers booming out at the same rate so as not to clue the bad guys should you have the need to expand your agent roster in the future.

It's reasonable to assume other folks besides the CIA are broadcasting code groups, too. But nobody will say publicly:

(1) exactly who's doing it;

(2) whether private parties are involved (some suspect drug traffickers because so many messages are in Spanish);

(3) where the stations are located (because of atmospheric reflection, direction-finding is difficult);

(4) how many of the messages are real and how many are dummies intended to lull eavesdroppers;

(5) who the intended recipients are (they can't ALL be Cuban agents in the U.S.); and, of course,

(6) what the messages say.

Clearly the time has come for a courageous subset of the Teeming Millions to get jobs with the world's national security agencies, find out the whole story, and then clue us in. (I'd do it, but I'm tied up this week.)

If they catch you, of course, you'll probably get the chair, but hey, can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. For more details on number stations, see Big Secrets by William Poundstone (1983).
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  #19  
Old 03-11-2005, 02:27 PM
heathkit tv
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Can't you just see the headlines in the National Enquirer....."I won the Lottery by using Number Station picks!"

Anthony
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2005, 03:29 PM
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Even if you could crack the code, you still probly wouldn't know what they were talking about= I'd assume it would be something like "Alpha Whiskey 113 squawk 155.7 at tango lima .-which might mean blow up the power plant, or order me a bacon cheeseburger. Still, numbers stations are probly the closest most of us will ever get to the twilight world of espionage-knowingly, anyway.-Sandy G.
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  #21  
Old 03-11-2005, 06:02 PM
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Get the burger before you blast the power plant.....Krusty won't be able to microwave the burger if there's no lectricity!

Anthony
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2005, 02:35 AM
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What's weird, is that a friend of mine, recently, accidentally mis-dialed an 800 number (still was an 800 number, just the WRONG one), and got a NUMBERS PHONE MESSAGE. What's up with that, y'all?? I told him to try and dial back, and see if the numbers remained the same, or changed over time. Haven't heard if he tried it...

Regards,
Gordon.
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  #23  
Old 04-12-2005, 12:01 AM
Wheezer
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My first "live" catch was on a Hallicrafters SX-53 that I picked up at an ersatz flea market. If anyone wants to hear where these broadcasts are coming from aesthetically, Irdial records has made free "The Conet Project":

http://makeashorterlink.com/?H37E12769

I find them soothing more than creepy.
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  #24  
Old 04-12-2005, 11:09 AM
xbikertrash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy G
Not quite numbers station stuff, but still oughta make you sleep tight tonite-in late 1990, there was a lot of chatter on the gov't bands about "Faded Giants" & "Broken Arrows". Story came out later that that referred to compromised nuclear facilities. Seems like a bunch of Islamic terrorists in one of the "Stan" countries in the then Soviet Union broke into a Military base, killed the Russians & made out to parts unknown w/the nukes. We were lookin' for 'em, the Russians were, too, but I don't think they were ever found...Or maybe they were....Who knows? I'd venture if we really knew what's going on out there, most of us would likely dig a deep bomb shelter....-Sandy G.
Hi Sandy, I grew up in Montana very close to a very large ICBM base and was in public schools in early and middle 60's. I remember the civil defence book in the mail showing how to build fallout shelters. Our nucular attack drill was to let school out and get home as fast as you could to say goodbye to your loved ones,
Darrell
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  #25  
Old 04-12-2005, 12:14 PM
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I live about 100 miles NNE of Oak Ridge...We always thought we might have time to bend over & kiss our butts goodbye if the "balloon ever went up"...-Sandy G.
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  #26  
Old 04-14-2005, 12:03 PM
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I had never heard of this. I work at a TV station and no one here had heard of it either. I pitched it to the News guys. We're doing a story about it next month! With all the increased concer over homeland security, it's just a neat thing that's going on in the world that I bet people would like to know about. Even if we don't really know much!

Thanks for the "tip"

Ed
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  #27  
Old 04-14-2005, 03:25 PM
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Yeah, that would make a cool story. Would be a good place to ask "Why doesn't the FCC respond to inquiries regarding these broadcasts?"

I find it interesting that with today's technology, someone is still using somewhat archaic communications for what would seem to be very important information!
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  #28  
Old 04-14-2005, 04:44 PM
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Fast_Eddie Fast_Eddie is offline
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Well, think about it. If you're in a less developed country undercover, a computer might stick out. But a radio doesn't look like anything odd. Say we have somone in a forgin country and the CIA needs to comunicate to them. They go in with nothing and can pick up a short wave radio once they are there. Cheap and easy. Getting a computer and internet access might be hard.
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  #29  
Old 04-14-2005, 07:01 PM
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Guys-This is a bit off topic,but...a pal of mine who's BIG-TIME into backpacking told me he was over in the heart of the Great Smoky Mtns. Nat'l Park once, & he heard this far-off noise that was mechanical in nature. Getting to the top of the ridge, he was astounded to see these HUGE Ventilation fans/HVAC system, on top of what must have been an immense underground facility. No roads, he said this was 10 miles from anywhere. This guy ain't into spinning yarns, I believe him. I still think it would floor any of us, if we knew what Uncle Sugar REALLY has in facilities/super-duper toys...-Sandy G.
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  #30  
Old 04-14-2005, 08:08 PM
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Sandy...

If you're friend would have had a portable shortwave set with him, I bet he would have picked up a whole slew of numbers that day!!!
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