Queue up for a digital set top box coupon for CT-100, etc...

[Bill R]

I am begining to get questions about the set top boxes at the store now. The problem is that so far we have no set top boxes, at any price, at our Wal-Mart. Nor do we have any current way to redeem the coupons if we had the merchandise. Our electronics department will reset in April or May, and we may have some on the new plan. Problem is the coupons may have expierd before we have any boxes to sell.
Charter is telling customers it is going all digital, but I suspect you will need their converter box, knowing how greedy they are. Customers are thinking they will need the retail set top box the comercials are talking about, even though they have cable.

Bill R

[andy]

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[ChrisW6ATV]

I am sure the "coupon-eligible" boxes will not tune QAM signals. Apparently the government program is specific that the boxes will work for OTA and SD output only. Of course, you can get one of the Samsung or other boxes that tune QAM, but they will not be priced near US$75.

[markthefixer]

I have been doing some digging about the coupon system's technical requirements for converter boxes for minimum features to qualify, optional features that will not disqualify and prohibited features which will disqualify, I hope this helps (I lifted a LOT of text from the report, which explains the obtuse language and some "posturing":

Act defines the term “digital-to-analog converter box” (a CECB)

Require = must have for coupon program
Permit = will NOT disqualify for coupon program, so it isn’t required..
Not permitted or prohibited = disqualify from coupon program


The Final Rule contains the requirement that the CECB receive all television channels 2-69.

The Final Rule will clarify that a CECB is required to receive, decode and display all channels, including multicast channels (2-1,5-3, etc) , broadcast by digital television station that can be displayed on an analog television receiver.

require a remote control that is supplied with batteries and uses standard technology and codes commonly used by television manufacturers as part of remote controls provided with television receivers. (at minimum to turn on and off tv)

requires that the CECB include an RF output and also requires that the CECB include composite outputs for those consumers who wish to continue to use the features provided by this technology. (yellow, white and red jacks) permit a S-video output .

require a power light indicating when the unit is turned on.

require manufacturers to include software which will display on the television receiver signal strength and permit the display of other operating parameters chosen by the manufacturer.

require that manufacturers supply an RF cable

NTIA's requirements for a CECB include two watt power consumption during the “sleep” mode, and does not include a specification for power consumption during the “on” mode.

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permit a S-video output which provides a better standard definition picture using a simple and inexpensive hookup with one cable.

permit, but not require, manufacturers to include in their CECBs the circuitry and connectors associated with the so-called smart-antenna interface.

will permit, but not require, manufacturers to include matching transformers to connect 300-ohm ribbon leads to the required Type F connectors. The Final Rule will also permit manufacturers to provide connectors for 300-ohm inputs on the CECB.

In the Final Rule, NTIA permits that the converter box to pass through the analog signal from the antenna to the TV receiver.

NTIA will permit manufacturers to follow current industry practice regarding RF outputs for audio/video equipment which provides a mono RF output which is switchable between a station’s main channel audio and other associated audio services.

NTIA will also permit manufacturers to provide BTSC Multichannel Television Sound (stereo audio) in the RF output, Consumers will also have the option of receiving stereo audio through the converter box’s left/right audio outputs (RCA connectors).

permit the manufacturer to provide a programmable remote control which can accept the code of the consumer’s existing analog receiver and related video/audio equipment.

NTIA will permit, but not require, a CECB to display other electronic program information

permit manufacturers to supply additional cables, such as a cable with three RCA connectors, if they desire.

permit a CECB to receive and decode software pursuant to ATSC Standard A-97.(automatic software download and upgrade capability)

permits, but does not require, manufacturers to provide converter boxes that operate on battery power as well as those which use an external AC/DC power input.

permit the display of other operating parameters chosen by the manufacturer

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prohibited: NTIA clarifies in the Final Rule that CECBs are prohibited from containing items such as display screens, recorders or storage devices that go beyond the simple task of converting a digital television signal to an analog signal for display on analog television receivers.

The Act, therefore, does not permit the output to another device such as a computer which might be required to capture streams of data included on the digital television transport stream.

not be permitted: NTIA specifies in the Final Rule these connectors ((DVI), (HDMI), (YPbPr), (VGA), USB IEEE-1394 (sometimes trademarked as iLink or Firewire), or IEEE-802.3 (Ethernet) or IEEE-802.11 (wireless)) will not be permitted in a CECB. Likewise,

my note: we can thank Funai ** for the loss of component video (YPbPr) jacks, I wouldn't call this "digital" information...but it IS better than s-video. There ARE a few (YPbPr) capable sets that do not have ATSC tuners. The probably do have S-video, but now Funai is on my $#!* list....


** "Funai then listed a series of connectors which it felt should not be permitted in the NTIA supported converter box. Funai requested that the following connectors be excluded from the converter box program:"

Here's a link to TECHNICAL APPENDIX 1 NTIA Coupon-Eligible Converter Box (CECB) Required Minimum Performance Specifications and Features

Funai was just stating the obvious -- the Y-Pr-Pb interface does not aid the target audience.

Also, the Y-Pr-Pb interface increases cost and complexity.

[dr.ido]

Bottom of the range SD set top boxes typically sell for between AU$35 and AU$50 depending on what sale is on at the time. As there is no coupon program here there are no restrictions. Most of them included composite, S-video and either component or RGB outputs. I haven't seen any with internal RF modulators, the RF out connector on them is just a loop through.

At least your cheap boxes will decode a HD signal even if they will only output SD. Our cheap SD boxes only decode an SD signal leaving our stations to broadcast an SD signal, a HD signal and (until the cut off, I don't remember when it supposed to occur) a PAL analog signal.

If you want a converter, but can wait you should start finding them hitting the curbs by mid 2009. Like most bottom of the range electronics a lot of them will barely make it through their warranty period. I find them quite regularly. The most common faults are bad capacitors (no suprise) and damaged connectors (they weigh almost nothing, so it's easily done with tight fitting "monster" cables or even just RG6).

[Phil Nelson]

I applied for two coupons. Reference #1583331.

Phil Nelson

[andy]

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[Pete Deksnis]

Here's a Word table of the stats we've accumulated in this thread thus far: it is sorted on the third column, the coupon number returned when the application was successful.

It seems one and a half million coupons have been issued. The first half-million were issued in the first 24 hours, while it took about six days to issue the third half-million.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis

Here's a Word table of the stats we've accumulated in this thread thus far: it is sorted on the third column, the coupon number returned when the application was successful.

It seems one and a half million coupons have been issued. The first half-million were issued in the first 24 hours, while it took about six days to issue the third half-million.

Pete

Where did you get this data?

[Pete Deksnis]

Originally Posted by acug

Where did you get this data?

See post #16:

"All right guys, lets have a couple of those reference numbers; if it seems linear, we might get a handle on how many are signing up...

Pete: Reference Number: 15405"

[markthefixer]

Originally Posted by andy

It's interesting that the US government would allow a Japanese company to dictate the requirements for the converter boxes. Millions of NTSC TVs were made with component inputs. Also, the vast majority of HD sets made before the last 2 years have no ATSC tuner.

The Funai input was done during the clarification process as the act that was passed by congress and signed by the president was interpreted into a set of specifications.

Conceivably, one could go to court with the original act, and the specifications as established, and sue to try to get the component video (YPbPr) jacks excluded from the not permitted list on the grounds that they are NOT a digital signal nor convey digital information. (vga should also fall under that umbrella definition too)

The problem is that since the requirements form the blueprint for what the manufacturers have been working on, and since the coupon program is a temporary and limited phenonema, it's too late even if it's wrong.

Originally Posted by markthefixer

The Funai input was done during the clarification process as the act that was passed by congress and signed by the president was interpreted into a set of specifications.

Conceivably, one could go to court with the original act, and the specifications as established, and sue to try to get the component video (YPbPr) jacks excluded from the not permitted list on the grounds that they are NOT a digital signal nor convey digital information. (vga should also fall under that umbrella definition too)

The problem is that since the requirements form the blueprint for what the manufacturers have been working on, and since the coupon program is a temporary and limited phenonema, it's too late even if it's wrong.

From the start, Congress intended this program to aid over-the-air NTSC viewers, especially ones that could not afford pay TV. There are very few (if any) NTSC-only 4:3 TVs that have Y-Pr-Pb inputs, and hence providing this interface on a converter box would provide a capability over and above the intent of Congress. For these reasons, this interface would not have survived the Rulemaking, even without the Funai comments.

[ChrisW6ATV]

I do not see the omission of a component output as a problem in any way. First of all, it most definitely would have been SD only. Omitting it keeps the boxes simple to hook up. The people these boxes are intended for will probably not want do deal with component-video cables, nor do I want to see the stores have the opportunity to sell them "Monster"-type component cables with the boxes. (I can just see it now-"You are saving $40 with your coupon, and this cable is 'only' $30, and you really need it".)

Anyone who cares enough about the small improvement between S-video and component-video on a 480i analog CRT display should just skip all this cheap box stuff and upgrade to real HDTV anyway.

Remember, there are plenty of better boxes already available, though they are hard to find and you don't get a $40 discount.