Rca Tk-41

[John Hafer]

W.B.

I have seen those photos from NBC and the captions indicate they upgraded their telecine rooms in 1976.

RCA indroduced their 4-tube TK-27 color film camera in 1965 and then replaced it with an improved 3-tube version, the TK-28 in 1972. The TK-28 was a much improved version film camera and by looking at the pictures, and by the date the room upgrades were made, these look like these were TK-28 cameras, even though the caption says they were TK-27 cameras.

The TK-27 had a large camera module mounted on the top front of the cabinet that was visible, where as the TK-28 had a small one or non at all.

Telling which stations used either GE PE-240 or RCA TK-27 film chains was easy! I lived in Boston in the mid 60's and it was easy to tell who had what by just watching some films on their stations.

WBZ-TV ch. 4 and then WKBG-TV ch. 56 had TK-27s while WNAC-TV ch.7 and WSBK-TV ch.38 had GE PE-240s'. WJAR-TV ch. 10 Providence also had TK-27s.

I also lived in Syracuse, and and WSYR-TV ch. 3 went with TK-27s, while WHEN-TV ch. 5 and then WNYS-TV ch. 9 went with the GE color film chains.

The hard part was trying to see the difference between the older RCA TK-26 and the GE PE-240 cameras for both had great pictures.

I read in several sites were the TK-42 and TK-27 cameras just did not live up to the expectations they had hoped, and that RCA later replaced them with the TK-44 (live) and TK-28 (film) cameras which from what I read, were excellent cameras.

Just my comments. Maybe someone else has some better information.

[W.B.]

I noticed the photographer misidentified the TP-7A slide projectors as TP-6's, now that you mention it. So if NBC did have TK-28's as of 1976 and he called them TK-27's, well . . .

As for WNAC-TV using PE-24's (as I saw in GE ads from 1964-65 - they might've added some PE-240's to their roster of equipment after 1966), they were in good company with other RKO stations: WOR-TV (Ch. 9) in New York, KHJ-TV (Ch. 9) in Los Angeles, and WHBQ-TV (Ch. 13) in Memphis also used these GE film chains in their respective setups.

And I wouldn't be surprised that WBZ-TV would've had TK-27's; sister station KYW-TV in Philadelphia also used them. (Whereas WFIL-TV, known after 1971 as WPVI-TV, had PE-24/240's.) As for WKBG: Would anyone know if the use of those TK-27's crossed over to the station's 1974 call letter change to WLVI? It would seem that those TK-27's also had horizontal linearity issues, along with the other bugs you mentioned.

[John Hafer]

Originally Posted by W.B.

As for WKBG: Would anyone know if the use of those TK-27's crossed over to the station's 1974 call letter change to WLVI?

I don't know but I was living in Boston at the time they switched call letters. They stayed at their same studio location at the switch so I assume they really never changed anything at the time except the call letters.

WKBG-TV ch. 56 signed on in December of 1966 and I think the call letter change to WLVI-TV came in the early 70s' so that would not make the TK-27s' that old.

One interesting memory: As I said earlier, the TK-27s had, IMHO, very poor contrast and lacked "shap" to their pictures. I remember back in 1967 watching a rerun episode of 'The Patty Duke Show' on WKBG-TV ch. 56 and even though it was being shown in B&W off their TK-27, the contrast was so low and poor, I almost called the station. I had to manually crank up the contrast control on our TV to compensate for it. It was not just that film copy either for I could tell every time they aired a film from that film chain, the picture was poor. Their other film chain was somewhat better so it was interesting watching them switch films from one chain to another and actually see the difference.

[W.B.]

I also have some questions for NYC viewers, but first a little background. Aside from WNBC-TV which went from TK-26's to TK-27's around 1965 (the same time that the picture quality of film-based shows like Flipper changed, and not for the better), I seem to recall WCBS, WABC and WOR used GE PE-24's (and probably a few PE-240's if acquired after 1966), and WPIX was equipped with TK-27's while that station was being prepped for color in 1965. I'm at a loss as to which film chains WNEW-TV used, though from what I've seen I could've sworn they too had TK-27's when they started running films in color in fall 1965. (Irrespective of their getting Norelco PC-70's when they added live studio color to their setup in '66.)

[John Hafer]

W.B. - interesting comment you made about the show Flipper changing in quality from better to worse back in the mid 60's. I remember when we first got our color tv back in December 1963 how beautiful the filmed NBC network shows looked in color. Then in the late spring of 1965, some of them started to look less vibriant, low in constast, and lacked snap. The color was still OK so I could not figure what to adjust on our set to fix it. Only some programs looked this way and not every week. I could not figure what was going on.

It was not until a year or so later when local stations started getting TK-27 film chains did I finally figure what had happened. I suspected that NBC had replaced some of their RCA TK-26 35mm film chains with with TK-27 cameras.

From what I can read into, NBC also saw these issues with the TK-27 and held off replacing all their film chains until the improved TK-28 film cameras became available several years later.

Going back to your post, Flipper was one of the shows I remember changing in quality the most. Living in Boston at the time, a new WKBG-TV ch. 56 signed on in Dec. of 1966 and installed all RCA cameras, (TK-42 & TK-27 for film). I remember their 16mm color film programs really had some low contrast issues. I really missed the TK-26 film chain quality. Only the GE PE-24/240 seemed to match it.

[W.B.]

Watching the following clips (i.e. film on one and showing of slides of the other), can you tell by these which film chains were used by this station:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=220u5CRGfd8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_mF1DT4pPY

[W.B.]

I also have an amendment to make: A broadcast veteran who worked at WOR-TV as a summer relief behind-the-scenes'er (mainly a cameraman) from 1966 to 1971 noted that in terms of telecine, it was RCA all the way. Prior to 1968, the station's telecine and master control were at the Empire State Building (the same place from which King Kong fell to his doom ), and the equipment there included TK-26 color and TK-21 monochrome film chains. (Their studios and videotape facilities then were at 1440 Broadway.) After Channel 9 consolidated their studios, VT facilities, telecine and master control under one roof at 1481 Broadway (in what used to house NTA Telestudios) in 1968, the station upgraded its telecine to RCA TK-27's - thus all three commercial indie stations in NYC used TK-27 film chains. (Apparently, GE's claims of WOR using PE-24's in their ads was wishful thinking on that company's part.)

This same veteran mentioned that WNEW-TV (where he also worked) had TK-27's.

[John Hafer]

W.B.,

Interesting about WOR-TV using all RCA. If I am not mistaken, back then was WOR-TV an RKO General station? I know that WNAC-TV ch. 7 in Boston was an RKO General station and they did have GE PE-250 (live) and PE-24/240 (film) color cameras. I had a tour of that station back in the 60s' and saw the studios and film chains. I remember the telecine islands were RCA (TP-7) slide projectors, with TP-15 mutiplexers, but they had replaced their RCA TP-6 16mm projectores with Eastman 285 projectors and all were feeding into the GE color film cameras. Videotape was all Ampex (either VR1200B or VR2000B high-band VTRs' - I can't remember)

As far as other Boston stations, if I recall, WBZ-TV (Westinghouse Broadcasting) had RCA TK-42 and TK-27 cameras, WHDH-TV ch. 5 (first with color) had RCA TK-41 and TK-26 with TK-43 remote cameras for Boston Redsox home games, WNAC-TV with GE equipment (as mentioned above), WSBK-TV ch.38 GE PE-240 color film, (still no live color at the time but later PE-250 live color cameras), and WKBG-TV ch.56 had all RCA with TK-42 and TK-27. Finally, if I remember, I think WGBH-TV ch.2 (Edu) which had RCA TK-60 B&W cameras went with Marconi 4-tube live color cameras. Not not know about their film cameras.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by John Hafer

W.B.,

Interesting about WOR-TV using all RCA. If I am not mistaken, back then was WOR-TV an RKO General station? I know that WNAC-TV ch. 7 in Boston was an RKO General station and they did have GE PE-250 (live) and PE-24/240 (film) color cameras. I had a tour of that station back in the 60s' and saw the studios and film chains. I remember the telecine islands were RCA (TP-7) slide projectors, with TP-15 mutiplexers, but they had replaced their RCA TP-6 16mm projectores with Eastman 285 projectors and all were feeding into the GE color film cameras. Videotape was all Ampex (either VR1200B or VR2000B high-band VTRs' - I can't remember)

As far as other Boston stations, if I recall, WBZ-TV (Westinghouse Broadcasting) had RCA TK-42 and TK-27 cameras, WHDH-TV ch. 5 (first with color) had RCA TK-41 and TK-26 with TK-43 remote cameras for Boston Redsox home games, WNAC-TV with GE equipment (as mentioned above), WSBK-TV ch.38 GE PE-240 color film, (still no live color at the time but later PE-250 live color cameras), and WKBG-TV ch.56 had all RCA with TK-42 and TK-27. Finally, if I remember, I think WGBH-TV ch.2 (Edu) which had RCA TK-60 B&W cameras went with Marconi 4-tube live color cameras. Not not know about their film cameras.

RKO had a reputation for being notoriously cheap - and I think the fact that WOR-TV didn't switch to GE film chains in '64 may've had to do with their having shown films in color beginning in 1960, when RCA was practically the only game in town, and their TK-26's working just fine and dandy . . . only upgrading their telecine when they moved their studios and prodution facilities.

To be sure, WOR-TV did have GE PE-250 studio cameras. Beginning in 1967, as a replacement for the B&W RCA TK-11's they had from their earliest days in 1949, and for the TK-41 color cameras that since c.1963-64 had been at the studio in the off-(baseball) season and at Shea Stadium when the Mets were playing their then-hapless seasons. (WPIX was another NYC station that had PE-250's, also starting around 1966-67.) * EDIT: WOR-TV, in late 1967, ordered nine (surprise, surprise) PE-250's - six for use at Shea during Mets games, the other three to their studios for year-round local live color programming. *

Back to Boston: After WHDH-TV was kicked off Channel 5 in 1972 and the then-new WCVB-TV took over, which film chains did the new station use?

And as for the Marconi 4-tube color cameras used by WGBH: Sounds like the Mark VII, in a 'YRGB' arrangement; their subsequent Mark VIII was three-tube, arranged as 'GRB'.

[John Hafer]

Originally Posted by W.B.

After WHDH-TV was kicked off Channel 5 in 1972 and the then-new WCVB-TV took over, which film chains did the new station use?

That was the million dollar question. I never was able to find out. If I remember, when they signed on in 1972, their studio cameras were Phillips. so I was thinking they went with Phillips film chains. The only thing I never could figure was if Phillips made telecine units. I think they did at some point but I don't recall if they had them in 1972 or not.

WCVB-TV did have to go with all new broadcast equipment because WHDH-TV would not give up anything for them. They held out to the end in hoping they would win the legal battle to stay on the air.

[W.B.]

Originally Posted by John Hafer

That was the million dollar question. I never was able to find out. If I remember, when they signed on in 1972, their studio cameras were Phillips. so I was thinking they went with Phillips film chains. The only thing I never could figure was if Phillips made telecine units. I think they did at some point but I don't recall if they had them in 1972 or not.

WCVB-TV did have to go with all new broadcast equipment because WHDH-TV would not give up anything for them. They held out to the end in hoping they would win the legal battle to stay on the air.

Philips/Norelco did make some telecine equipment, which few stations, it seemed, had used. One such unit, produced in the late 1960's, was called the PCF-701, a three-Plumbicon (what else?) color film camera, used in conjunction with a PCM-800 multiplexer (I may've mentioned this earlier). The PCF-701 was as big in size, from what I've seen in old Broadcast Engineering issues, as GE's PE-24/240's and RCA's TK-26/27/28's. However, most 3-Plumbicon color telecine cameras Philips/Norelco made, especially by the early 1970's, were small compact units, generally for smaller TV outfits (like public-access channels or college TV stations). For that matter, I've read that RCA's TK-28's had the option of using vidicons or Plumbicons.

I seem to recall that when WCVB-TV first took to the air, they used Philips/Norelco PC-100's - one of the few in the U.S. to do so.

[Telecolor 3007]

Is true that "R.C.A." TK-41 needed to reach stability and they needed a lot of light in order to deliver a good image?

[julianburke]

All tube cameras needed to reach stability before showtime. To minimize this time they were left 'on", that is the all filaments were kept on 24/7 with no plate voltage when not in use. All tube cameras required some tweaking before showtime.

Yes, all early cameras required considerable light to make them work properly but as time went on they were able to develop tubes that required less light. The English were making far better tubes than RCA or GE. In England EEV, (English Electric Valve Co.) were making high quality tubes but were also more expensive, but most studios bought domestically so EEV's are scarce in this country.

For a TK41 camera, 2P23's were developed and tested/marked specifically for it's best specific color spectrum. Usually each tube had a suffix letter (R/G/B) for its' tested color spectrum. Fortunately red was an easier color to match for as it is probably the most important color in the three as in making good flesh tones. Testing tubes for their efficiency in the RGB spectrum's will make the camera more efficient and thus use less light. These tubes are complicated to make in manufacturing and no two are ever exactly alike so they are sorted out for their best application.

Early studios who did use lots of light had to take this into consideration because artists/performers who had to wear heavy costumes could pass out due to heat exhaustion and their makeup would also run and have to be done over and over many times. All television actors who worked in the '50's will tell in their memoirs about this problem. Also A/C wasn't everywhere either.

[old_tv_nut]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

Is true that "R.C.A." TK-41 needed to reach stability and they needed a lot of light in order to deliver a good image?

The recommended level for the TK-41 was about 400 foot-candles (4300 lux). Later ultrasensitive image orthicons could reduce this by 2:1 or more.

All photoemissive photocathodes were temperature senstitive and sensitive to their history of use. It seems that any substance with a low work function (gives up electrons easily from light stimulation) was also not chemically very stable.

The image orthicon secondary emission target performance was also temperature sensitive, and subject to burn-in of images.

[Fenway]

Originally Posted by John Hafer

W.B.,

Interesting about WOR-TV using all RCA. If I am not mistaken, back then was WOR-TV an RKO General station? I know that WNAC-TV ch. 7 in Boston was an RKO General station and they did have GE PE-250 (live) and PE-24/240 (film) color cameras. I had a tour of that station back in the 60s' and saw the studios and film chains. I remember the telecine islands were RCA (TP-7) slide projectors, with TP-15 mutiplexers, but they had replaced their RCA TP-6 16mm projectores with Eastman 285 projectors and all were feeding into the GE color film cameras. Videotape was all Ampex (either VR1200B or VR2000B high-band VTRs' - I can't remember)

As far as other Boston stations, if I recall, WBZ-TV (Westinghouse Broadcasting) had RCA TK-42 and TK-27 cameras, WHDH-TV ch. 5 (first with color) had RCA TK-41 and TK-26 with TK-43 remote cameras for Boston Redsox home games, WNAC-TV with GE equipment (as mentioned above), WSBK-TV ch.38 GE PE-240 color film, (still no live color at the time but later PE-250 live color cameras), and WKBG-TV ch.56 had all RCA with TK-42 and TK-27. Finally, if I remember, I think WGBH-TV ch.2 (Edu) which had RCA TK-60 B&W cameras went with Marconi 4-tube live color cameras. Not not know about their film cameras.

Here is WCVB's projection room in 1977

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...0HZpZqA#t=400s

WMUR-TV in Manchester also had a TK-27 chain.