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  #1  
Old 04-27-2011, 07:45 PM
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question about a 8-t-241

I'm working on a 8-t-241 and going over voltages at the 5u4 tube. Pin 2 is suppose to have 275 volts and I'm getting 402.
Pins 4 and 6 are right on, Pin 8 is suppose to have 275 volts, I got zero.
According to the diagram, the line to pin 8 goes directly into the transformer....so does this mean that section of transformer is dead???
Update: Located both leads off that transformer tap and I do have voltage. I found 2 bad ecaps (these were new, recently replaced) and replaced them. Now got voltage on pin 8 but its too high, should be 275 I got 390....anybody have any ideas where to check next? I went pretty far into the circut and could not find the cause of the higher voltage.

Last edited by stusnyder; 04-28-2011 at 08:54 PM. Reason: update
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:47 PM
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using the grid voltage or variac?
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:20 PM
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Grid voltage
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:39 PM
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do you have a photo fact for it, maybe someone tried to repair it an didnt know what they were doing. something could have been indirectly put in the wrong place. wrong cap somewhere, shorted electrolytic?
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:55 PM
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The voltage is high because something is probably open and not drawing current like it should.

Look for an open power resistor, there is a metal strip riveted across the back of the chassis that contains a long wirewound resistor with multiple taps, it's quite common for these to open up.

I would check your B+ voltages at some of the tubes, knowing the section missing the B+ would make it easier to know where to look.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:06 PM
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hi eric,
yea I"ve seen that resistor mounted on the back of the set. I'll have to check it against the SAMS...
If it's bad, is there something modern that it can be replaced with?
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:57 PM
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You can replace the individual sections with Wirewounds under the chassis, depends on how many watts it is, you may need to get some that mount to the chassis for a heat sink.

I wouldn't worry about it just yet, the voltage could also be high because some parts of the set aren't working right, tubes not conducting due to bad caps and hence no load on the Power Supply.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:13 PM
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I agree about there being an open somewhere that is causing the proper load to not be placed on the power supply.

I will add a word of caution here. Normally, when the set is working properly, the load placed on the power supply is sufficient enough to discharge the filter caps, shortly after the set is turned off. When the proper load is not placed on the power supply, there is often nothing there to discharge the filter capacitors. In this case, the full power supply output voltage can remain on the filter caps and this charge can get your attention in a not so nice way. So, be careful. Use your DMM to make sure the caps are discharged when the set is off. If there is a charge; discharge the caps, preferably through a high wattage/high value power resistor, to ground.
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Old 04-30-2011, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
You can replace the individual sections with Wirewounds under the chassis, depends on how many watts it is, you may need to get some that mount to the chassis for a heat sink.

I wouldn't worry about it just yet, the voltage could also be high because some parts of the set aren't working right, tubes not conducting due to bad caps and hence no load on the Power Supply.
Eric, the set has already been recapped, both e caps and paper caps.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:40 PM
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Because the voltage at the cathode of the 5U4 (pin 8) is high, I see one of two possible scenarios: either the resistive divider chain is open (R193A, R194 R210//R177, R193B and R193C) or else there is a short on the negative end of the chain (-120v to ground).

I suspect you may find an open resistor chain (bad connection or bad resistor). I have seen R193A open on a couple of these chassis. It is the big fella mounted on the rear chassis apron. In each case, I successfully replaced the one bad section with a big wirewound (ceramic tube type) mounted high up on the HV compartment cage on a home made bracket.
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthode View Post
Because the voltage at the cathode of the 5U4 (pin 8) is high, I see one of two possible scenarios: either the resistive divider chain is open (R193A, R194 R210//R177, R193B and R193C) or else there is a short on the negative end of the chain (-120v to ground).

I suspect you may find an open resistor chain (bad connection or bad resistor). I have seen R193A open on a couple of these chassis. It is the big fella mounted on the rear chassis apron. In each case, I successfully replaced the one bad section with a big wirewound (ceramic tube type) mounted high up on the HV compartment cage on a home made bracket.
I'm having trouble deciphering that resister, to test use a ohm meter with a lead on one end and work down the line with the other lead?? Test out or in circut??? I have no formal training in electronics, just what I have read and experienced thru the years...radios I have no problem....damn televisions are so much harder.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:30 PM
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I located the resistor on my sams, and checked it. It's in specification, nothing open on it.
But voltage does not match. Looking at the bottom of the chassis, transformer on the right, I hold 1 lead of my meter on the first resistor terminal, moving to the left with the other lead I get 139v, -200v, -188v, and the last to the left -176v

Last edited by stusnyder; 05-10-2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:21 PM
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The high voltage on the 5U4 cathode suggests that one of the resistors in the chain may be open.

If you check the resistance from pin 8 of the 5U4 to chassis, it should measure about 6400 ohms. If you check the resistance of the entire divider chain from pin 8 of the 5U4 to the metal can of C147 (located under the chassis under the power transformer), it should measure 7700 ohms. These resistances may vary +/- 20% but if they are considerably higher, then one of the resistors is likely at fault.

Lastly, try measuring from the metal can of C147 to chassis and it should be 1300 ohms. A short circuit to chassis of the C147 can could also lead to a high voltage on pin 8 of the 5U4.
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Old 05-11-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stusnyder View Post
I located the resistor on my sams, and checked it. It's in specification, nothing open on it.
But voltage does not match. Looking at the bottom of the chassis, transformer on the right, I hold 1 lead of my meter on the first resistor terminal, moving to the left with the other lead I get 139v, -200v, -188v, and the last to the left -176v
It is difficult to understand what you are measuring. Can you measure the overall chain resistance as I first suggested?

Further, could you identfy what you are measuring corresponding with what it should measure?

Correct ......... vs .......... Measured
Voltages ....................... Voltages

+215
+135
+88
-60
-120
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthode View Post
The high voltage on the 5U4 cathode suggests that one of the resistors in the chain may be open.

If you check the resistance from pin 8 of the 5U4 to chassis, it should measure about 6400 ohms. If you check the resistance of the entire divider chain from pin 8 of the 5U4 to the metal can of C147 (located under the chassis under the power transformer), it should measure 7700 ohms. These resistances may vary +/- 20% but if they are considerably higher, then one of the resistors is likely at fault.

Lastly, try measuring from the metal can of C147 to chassis and it should be 1300 ohms. A short circuit to chassis of the C147 can could also lead to a high voltage on pin 8 of the 5U4.
resistance pin 8 to chassis 6460 ohm you said 6400
pin 8 to can c147 7720 ohm you said 7700
can c147 to chassis 1242 ohm you said 1300 ohm

Last edited by stusnyder; 05-11-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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