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  #61  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:45 AM
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Those screen shots are astonishing! I assume we hobbyists are probably in the minority to experience such a high level of picture quality on these old roundy set's. Short of a studio monitor, there was never any OTA source material that could rival our modern video sources we have available today.
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  #62  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Kuehn View Post
Those screen shots are astonishing! I assume we hobbyists are probably in the minority to experience such a high level of picture quality on these old roundy set's. Short of a studio monitor, there was never any OTA source material that could rival our modern video sources we have available today.
I don't think there were any video sources circa 1958, aside from a dedicated color bar generator, that could produce an image that good. Tape was noisy, the cameras themselves were noisy, the film chain cameras were very noisy from what I've been told, etc

My father was thrilled when Laserdisc, and then DVD, finally came out. We truly are seeing these sets with an image quality that never could have been achieved prior to about 20 or 30 years ago.
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  #63  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benman94 View Post
I don't think there were any video sources circa 1958, aside from a dedicated color bar generator, that could produce an image that good. Tape was noisy, the cameras themselves were noisy, the film chain cameras were very noisy from what I've been told, etc
Film chains were the least noisy, because a lot of light could be poured into the vidicon pickup tubes. Image orthicons had a noise floor due to beam current noise (basic quantum electron-count noise). The live-camera noise problem wasn't solved until the Plumbicon tube came along in the 60's.
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  #64  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:28 PM
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Film chains were the least noisy, because a lot of light could be poured into the vidicon pickup tubes. Image orthicons had a noise floor due to beam current noise (basic quantum electron-count noise). The live-camera noise problem wasn't solved until the Plumbicon tube came along in the 60's.
I should qualify my statement a bit: the film chains were very noisy compared to the Cintel flying spot scanners that were used in the 80s and 90s to master for tape/LD and eventually DVD.

Now I do remember one of my Uncles saying that there was an issue with the TK-26s and TK-27s, and while they looked good, they weren't perfect, and they certainly weren't as good as the color flying spot scanners that were available in the mid-50s and early 60s (I think GE made one, among others). I can't for the life of me remember what their particular gripe was though...
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  #65  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:45 PM
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I can only imagine how tedious it must have been editing commercials into film program material back in those early days. It would be fascinating to me if someone could start a thread on how that was all accomplished. Or maybe there is a thread and I'm not aware of it.
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  #66  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benman94 View Post
I should qualify my statement a bit: the film chains were very noisy compared to the Cintel flying spot scanners that were used in the 80s and 90s to master for tape/LD and eventually DVD.

Now I do remember one of my Uncles saying that there was an issue with the TK-26s and TK-27s, and while they looked good, they weren't perfect, and they certainly weren't as good as the color flying spot scanners that were available in the mid-50s and early 60s (I think GE made one, among others). I can't for the life of me remember what their particular gripe was though...
Yes, the flying spot scanners were much cleaner than the vidicon chains, not only in noise, but in shading. DVDs of film series that were transferred using a vidicon chain (e.g., Rocky and Bullwinkle) have bad shading and bad grayscale tracking.

I think I recall some postings somewhere with gripes about the TK-27 actually being worse than the TK-26 in some ways.

One of the problems for color with the vidicon chains is that the vidicons have a built-in gamma correction characteristic, so it is before any color correction matrix (if the camera even had one). This resulted in dull muddy greens compared to reds and blues. The color rendition of the Cintels etc. was much better. The dynamic range (contrast range) of the vidicon chains was also worse than the Cintel, with muddy shadows in general. At one time, Kodak sold a low-contrast movie print film specifically for TV use. The prints looked washed out to the eye, but it got the shadows bright enough that the sensor could see them well. The fog was then removed by turning down the black level in the video amp. Plumbicon live cameras used a similar technique: they had tube faceplate lighting that raised the shadows in order to reduce motion lag, and the resulting fog was removed by adjusting the clamping level to reset the blacks.
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  #67  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:07 PM
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UPDATE, MAY 24, 2020

Lit up the Worthington CTC-7 today, 2 years, 7 months after restoration completion. Mike Doyle did the restoration, commissioned by me. As recently done with the Westinghouse H840CK15, today we are setting the exposure for cabinet and lit screen. Photo session time from 12:30 PM to 1:30 PM, full sunlight, West shutters closed, North shaded sun patio doors open to the right of cabinet. Shaded florescent light to the rear, left and LED overhead fan light. Camera, Sony A6300, FL 16, SS 1/20, Aperture F-11, ISO 3200, custom white balance.

Subject material is the 1948 film, The Red Shoes, one of the finest examples of three strip Technicolor. It’s lush palette is tastefully done, but a few segments during the ballet sequence are well saturated.

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Last edited by etype2; 05-28-2020 at 03:01 AM.
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  #68  
Old 05-25-2020, 01:15 PM
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Very impressive!
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  #69  
Old 05-25-2020, 02:05 PM
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Very, very nice! Did you pause the playback to take these shots?
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  #70  
Old 05-25-2020, 02:15 PM
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Marshall,

As usual, the Worthington doesn't disappoint. Ed would be amazed at what you & Mike have been able to achieve in restoring this set. Thanks for the update & the stunning photos. The Red Shoes is a great example of the Technicolor process. And British Technicolor always seemed to go a step further in presenting that process.

-Steve D.
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  #71  
Old 05-25-2020, 02:39 PM
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Thank you guys. Yes, I paused each shot. The lighting conditions aren’t the greatest, florescent, (it was a shaded lamp which warmed it up) overhead LED dimmer controlled. I needed to get a bit of light to illuminate the cabinet, but not to the point of ruining the contrast of the screen. I should buy a light screen Steve suggested. I used a grey card to set white balance.

I hope Ed would be proud. Thanks to a generous collector, I have Ed’s restored “An Evening With Fred Astaire” on DVD which I play on his set. Ironically, both debuted in 1958. The Producer/Director (Powell and Pressburger) of The Red Shoes were also involved with “Black Narcissus” another example of three strip Technicolor. That film may be to dark for some.
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Last edited by etype2; 05-25-2020 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #72  
Old 05-26-2020, 06:40 AM
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Thanks for mentiong the name of the movie... 'cause I was curios who the rehdead was.
These old sets are like ginger/redhead females.
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  #73  
Old 05-26-2020, 10:58 AM
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Moria Shearer: From IMDb, Arthur Freed wanted her to play opposite Fred Astaire in Royal Wedding (1951) but Astaire was reluctant to dance with a ballerina. Gene Kelly asked for her for Brigadoon (1954). She turned down both film opportunities, much preferring the classical stage in those years. She went on to play "Titania" in "A Midsummer Night's Dream" in her Broadway debut and the title role in "Major Barbara".
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  #74  
Old 05-26-2020, 04:27 PM
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Marshall, those images are very nice. I have a question, actually a couple. I notice in the top left off the screen in the glass a triangular reflection is that your tripod legs? How frequent do you power up the set and when you do is it run for awhile to keep the electrolytics in good form?
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  #75  
Old 05-26-2020, 06:12 PM
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John,

Yes, that reflection is from the tripod. The Worthington hasn’t been used much recently because of preoccupation with the Westy restoration. I do try to turn on my consoles once a month or so. They are used mainly for demos when friends, family come over. Never more than two hours at a time. Will the Arizona dry climate have an adverse effect on the parts? We are entering our “oven” which lasts till early October. During this time, the night time temps only go down to upper 70’s and consistent 100+ days. The inside house temp is maintained at 79F, 25 to 30% humidity in Summer.
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Last edited by etype2; 05-27-2020 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Another typo
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