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  #16  
Old 11-02-2016, 08:55 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair E View Post
9AQ8 = PCC85, 15CW5 = PL84, 9A8 = PCF80....

All European valves! The American numbers are odd to me--the valves most certainly very familiar! Only Japanese set I think we saw with Euro valves was a Sanyo, those were pretty good as I recall...
I generally remembered them by the American numbers, fully knowing that they were European sourced.
Motorola was one USA firm that seemed to use a lot of European tubes a lot in the early 60's. They used two 300ma series strings in a series-parallel arrangement. The 27GB5 was an example, along with the tubes previously mentioned.
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  #17  
Old 11-03-2016, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhifi View Post
Zenith and RCA
Agreed........
In the 70's Zenith CRT's were best. The chassis still held
on to a lot of hand wiring til '79 so most rugged of the era.
Between RCA & Zenith they sold apx half the TV's in the US.
They were the two expensive brands til Sony came along.
Other sets that cost as much had a tiny market share. With
those you were buying a cabinet or a slick sales pitch but
NOT electronics or long life.

73 Zeno
LFOD !
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  #18  
Old 11-03-2016, 09:35 AM
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DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
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I have 16" color and a 14" color Zenith from 1970 and 1972 that I could not part with and they do look pretty sharp. Also have a Sylvania CB35 from 1969 that I did not get to the bench yet. These all are barely hybrids with about a dozen tubes each.

Total agree on the 1968 Zenith 15Y6C15. Liberated one long ago from a friend's barn collection. It was a bit rusty BUT was total cake to get looking great and a guy in tech school "bought" it, never paying for it.

I only compare GE Porta-color as it was a different kind of value set - fewer parts and simpler to repair, and easy-to-get parts. The customer was not expecting much, paying less accordingly. Not to forget the RCA CTC22 15" from 1967, another easy fix set that did not age so well as the Zenith. IIRC Philco, Magnavox and Admiral made their smallest color sets using the 11SP22 and 11WP22 that were in the low-focus ,porta-color league. heck, the Mag may have been Japanese. With Motorola and their cozy relationship with Matsushita, probably had one also. Never saw any of them.

Two 1976 Portacolors I got, then promptly sold recently. Its all too easy to recall the days when I was the low-man on the bench that had to work on them. Just basic TV nothing more nothing less.
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Last edited by DavGoodlin; 11-03-2016 at 09:41 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:13 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post
I have 16" color and a 14" color Zenith from 1970 and 1972 that I could not part with and they do look pretty sharp. Also have a Sylvania CB35 from 1969 that I did not get to the bench yet. These all are barely hybrids with about a dozen tubes each.

Total agree on the 1968 Zenith 15Y6C15. Liberated one long ago from a friend's barn collection. It was a bit rusty BUT was total cake to get looking great and a guy in tech school "bought" it, never paying for it.

I only compare GE Porta-color as it was a different kind of value set - fewer parts and simpler to repair, and easy-to-get parts. The customer was not expecting much, paying less accordingly. Not to forget the RCA CTC22 15" from 1967, another easy fix set that did not age so well as the Zenith. IIRC Philco, Magnavox and Admiral made their smallest color sets using the 11SP22 and 11WP22 that were in the low-focus ,porta-color league. heck, the Mag may have been Japanese. With Motorola and their cozy relationship with Matsushita, probably had one also. Never saw any of them.

Two 1976 Portacolors I got, then promptly sold recently. Its all too easy to recall the days when I was the low-man on the bench that had to work on them. Just basic TV nothing more nothing less.
The small screen Motorola sets of the late 60's, early 70's were built by Admiral and Sharp. Hybrid sets with low voltage focus CRT's.
The Sharp built sets were the same as the Midland and Wards Airline, but the Motorola sets had better styling.
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  #20  
Old 11-03-2016, 10:26 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair E View Post
Here's my latest TV set--From around 1972, a Japanese 'Teleton' VX1110 12" Delta-CRT Color set.

By UK Standards--a complete oddball, I used to think back in the day when the occasional one came for repair, that these were of American manufacture, due to the valve line-up, 31JS6A, 17DW4A, 17JZ8 etc. but found they were made by General Corp, Japan...





The pictures above were taken by its previous owner, Mike, (Also a UK based enthusiast) who has done a good job cleaning the set up and making it actually work!
The set must have some sort of a simplified PAL processor circuit used, as it still has a tint control.
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  #21  
Old 11-03-2016, 01:47 PM
Alastair E Alastair E is offline
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Yes--Teleton has tint control and uses their own variation of the simple-PAL decoder design with no chroma delay-line They are reputed to work better than the equivalent age Sony non-PAL-D decoders. There's an additional Hue Adj. pot on the rear next to the frame-hold

There was one make of UK set with a full PAL-D decoder that also has a Tint-Control. ITT from CVC1 to CVC9 defo used a tint-control (On the back of dual-standard CVC1 and single-standard CVC2, later relocated to the sliders on the front of CVC5-9 sets) and was a selling point in their advertising, and maybe even later CVC20/30's had one, cant really remember--

Some of those had an 'Ideal Colour' button I recall, which switched over the user-controls to a set of internal presets....
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeno View Post
Agreed........
In the 70's Zenith CRT's were best. The chassis still held
on to a lot of hand wiring til '79 so most rugged of the era.
Between RCA & Zenith they sold apx half the TV's in the US.
They were the two expensive brands til Sony came along.
Other sets that cost as much had a tiny market share. With
those you were buying a cabinet or a slick sales pitch but
NOT electronics or long life.

73 Zeno
LFOD !
In my admittedly limited experience, RCA TVs have better colour than Zenith. I don't like Zeniths IC colour demod circuit from the early 70s, if you ever have to screw with one be prepared to be annoyed. Everything aside from this critical detail I give the edge to Zenith but I like my colours accurate and find it easier to achieve this on an RCA, therefore if I had to pick a side I would say RCA.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair E View Post
Some of those had an 'Ideal Colour' button I recall, which switched over the user-controls to a set of internal presets....
Two of my sets have this feature but with different names; Chromatic Tuning on the Zenith and simply "Auto" on the Electrohome console. I don't have a screwdriver long and skinny enough to reach the presets but no one is going to mess with the controls. They're knobs so almost no one would know how to use them anyway, ha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhifi View Post
In my admittedly limited experience, RCA TVs have better colour than Zenith. I don't like Zeniths IC colour demod circuit from the early 70s, if you ever have to screw with one be prepared to be annoyed. Everything aside from this critical detail I give the edge to Zenith but I like my colours accurate and find it easier to achieve this on an RCA, therefore if I had to pick a side I would say RCA.
Perhaps a Chromacolor CRT would look really good when driven by a RCA chassis...

Last edited by Jon A.; 11-03-2016 at 04:46 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2016, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhifi View Post
In my admittedly limited experience, RCA TVs have better colour than Zenith. I don't like Zeniths IC colour demod circuit from the early 70s, if you ever have to screw with one be prepared to be annoyed. Everything aside from this critical detail I give the edge to Zenith but I like my colours accurate and find it easier to achieve this on an RCA, therefore if I had to pick a side I would say RCA.
The chip demods may not have been as easy to adjust, but those sets often had a SS IF system that made up for those chips not being perfect (most I've seen have been fairly good). Good color is very important, but if the image is not suitably sharp it don't matter how good the color is...
If you find a Zenith set with a tube chroma demod AND SS IF. It will look better than an RCA when set up right.
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:23 AM
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DavGoodlin DavGoodlin is offline
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Great observations here.

The tube IFs of Zeniths using the 6EJ7-6EH7 were higher gain than RCA's tube IF but the Zenith SS starting w/1970 seemed to up the whole game. Experience does bear this out:

My grandparents had a 20X1C38 on an antenna in S. FLA and my fuzzy memory recalls it was a tad bit grainy oven on strong channels. But the Zenith's brightness, focus and stable HV hid that fact somewhat.
I had a 1969 Zenith (16Z8C50) on Storer cable in Dallas and the picture was not as good as some SS-IF strip Zenith sets probably for this reason. Its easier to notice grainy HF video and snow on a 23" set versus a smaller set too
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:49 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavGoodlin View Post
Great observations here.

The tube IFs of Zeniths using the 6EJ7-6EH7 were higher gain than RCA's tube IF but the Zenith SS starting w/1970 seemed to up the whole game. Experience does bear this out:

My grandparents had a 20X1C38 on an antenna in S. FLA and my fuzzy memory recalls it was a tad bit grainy oven on strong channels. But the Zenith's brightness, focus and stable HV hid that fact somewhat.
I had a 1969 Zenith (16Z8C50) on Storer cable in Dallas and the picture was not as good as some SS-IF strip Zenith sets probably for this reason. Its easier to notice grainy HF video and snow on a 23" set versus a smaller set too
In late 1969, a good friend bought a 23" Zenith with the first Chromacolor CRT, a 12A12C52 chassis.
The picture on that set just knocked me over, it was that good! They ran the set for 14 years, with very little repairs. I did all the work on it, which was very little.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2016, 02:02 PM
Alastair E Alastair E is offline
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IME--Some Tube IF Strips are outstanding. Some not so good.

The Bush TV125 B/W from late 50's early 60's has a dual-standard 405/625 line IF Strip full of EF80's/6BX6 but the set was let down in my opinion by having a tube UHF Tuner.

--Bung a later type good quality Transistor Tuner in one was a match made in heaven, I swear I could get reception from Scotland if the antenna was right!

Consumer grade Tube gear and UHF if not done well,--well-there you go!..
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  #28  
Old 11-05-2016, 08:33 PM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair E View Post
IME--Some Tube IF Strips are outstanding. Some not so good.

The Bush TV125 B/W from late 50's early 60's has a dual-standard 405/625 line IF Strip full of EF80's/6BX6 but the set was let down in my opinion by having a tube UHF Tuner.

--Bung a later type good quality Transistor Tuner in one was a match made in heaven, I swear I could get reception from Scotland if the antenna was right!

Consumer grade Tube gear and UHF if not done well,--well-there you go!..
IIRC, the only set I've seen that used that IF tube, was the early Panasonic built sets. The big heavy beasts, that had a large power transformer, but the tubes were in a series string arrangement.
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:10 PM
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Thanks for sharing the pictures of the "Teleton!" Cute little Japanese set we likely would never see here in the US! I like these little Color Portables.
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2016, 12:25 PM
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That is a really cool little set! I love Japanese color portables, especially oddball ones!
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