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Old 07-15-2017, 11:58 AM
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OSD shows before the picture fades in

Has anyone seen anything quite like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nLCLiLmsTc

If I turn the set off and immediately back on, the OSD comes up instantly as expected, but once again, the picture itself remains black for a few seconds before slowly fading in.

I'm assuming the OSD is just sent to the picture tube as instant as the TV starts up, and something is slowly ramping up the brightness to the picture perhaps, in the jungle IC?
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:10 PM
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Maybe the green gun warms up a little faster than the others?
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
Maybe the green gun warms up a little faster than the others?
Hmm, not entirely sure.. Just tried this, forcing the OSD to show red, and both the red and green OSD comes up well before the picture comes in, and the picture is showing a very vibrant Match Game floor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxlgPUtjjGg
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:26 PM
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Update: I clipped on an oscilloscope to the green signal going to the tube, and sure enough, the OSD is there the moment the TV is turned on, but nothing else until after a few seconds then slowly rises.

I've never seen anything quite like that.
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:07 PM
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My guess is..........
The set uses AKB or Auto Kine Bias. First used in RCA's IIRC.
The jungle IC has the circuit in it. It measures beam current
by firing each gun during blanking then adjusts the grey scale.
The OSD probably takes a different rout.
Some sets like Sony will not display a raster until its warmed
up & grey scale is good. Bad news is if the jug starts getting
weak the raster will blink on & off.

BTW if a set has AKB you can usually collapse the vert a little & see
3 color stripes at the top. Thats the guns getting fired.

73 Zeno
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Old 07-15-2017, 01:49 PM
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That might be what it is, certainly sounds plausible..
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Old 07-15-2017, 02:47 PM
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Sometimes on a set with AKB, it will do the opposite, and you will see the guns come on with too much drive (because the emission is low until the cathodes warm up and also because the filter capacitors in the AKB circuit need to charge up), and then get turned down (although the fact that the cathodes are warming up at the same time keeps it from being too bright). I had a Zenith in which the three guns reached equilibrium with slightly different delays, so the gray scale had three noticeable adjustments occur, one after another.

Maybe this could also be a channel change / source change blanking of some kind that happens to operate when first turned on? Would be interesting to see what it does when switching between sources or changing RF channels.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
Sometimes on a set with AKB, it will do the opposite, and you will see the guns come on with too much drive (because the emission is low until the cathodes warm up and also because the filter capacitors in the AKB circuit need to charge up), and then get turned down (although the fact that the cathodes are warming up at the same time keeps it from being too bright). I had a Zenith in which the three guns reached equilibrium with slightly different delays, so the gray scale had three noticeable adjustments occur, one after another.

Maybe this could also be a channel change / source change blanking of some kind that happens to operate when first turned on? Would be interesting to see what it does when switching between sources or changing RF channels.
Hmm, changing sources causes a "fade in" for each input..

Also I have noticed a quirk, if the picture is bright, like a daytime scene in a movie, then goes to a night scene with a fast cut, the picture looks for a split second like the brightness is up too high, and then fades down to a proper looking picture.

I'll see if I can capture that.
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Old 07-15-2017, 03:29 PM
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Here's the fading, at least from bright to dark scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Si6LAZJ36Y

EDIT: Huh, apparently in slow motion, you can hear that the microphone on my phone picked up the horizontal sweeping noise from the TV. Never knew the mic on it was that sensitive. lol
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Old 07-15-2017, 04:43 PM
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Looks like a long DC restoration time constant.

Edit: Does it happen the other way when going from a dim scene to a bright one? Simple diode DC restorers will be asymmetrical, gated clamps will not.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
Looks like a long DC restoration time constant.

Edit: Does it happen the other way when going from a dim scene to a bright one? Simple diode DC restorers will be asymmetrical, gated clamps will not.
It does, when it goes from dark to bright, you can see for a split second the brightness ramping up.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:47 AM
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And a second weird effect, though not as weird as I have certainly seen this before. The OSD is not affected by the brightness or contrast settings in the menu. I can turn then both down to zero, and have no TV picture, but the OSD is still there bright as it ever was.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:19 PM
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Once again, those Apex TVs were never star performers.....what's the jungle chip part numbrt? With no schematic or chassis info, it's all just guessing.

Post a chip complement and I can dig through some notes, but without some meat, it's all just guesses....
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnx64 View Post
I can turn then both down to zero, and have no TV picture, but the OSD is still there bright as it ever was.
If you could turn the OSD down how would you find the menu to turn the brightness back up?

Every set I've ever seen with an OSD worked this way.
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Old 07-19-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
If you could turn the OSD down how would you find the menu to turn the brightness back up?

Every set I've ever seen with an OSD worked this way.
Then I have a Philips Magnavox for you. It goes down with the picture, but zero brightness and contrast doesn't make the entire picture disappear, just dark.
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