Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Early B&W and Projection TV

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:06 PM
Marzutra Marzutra is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Did I just ...... my 1950s Philco TV set?

Greetings from the North... Looking for a bit of help though I think I totally screwed my project.
I am so used to restoring speakers and never tackled a vintage television.
My tech who rebuilt my monoblock amplifiers gave me a 1950s Philco Black and White television set.
Today I decided to start the restoration for it because I thought it would be mega for the ol-cave...
Well behind the front glass screen cover plate there was a bunch of dead spiders, insects and other garbage. I noticed that one could not get to the back of the glass unless one pulls the tube and innards out from behind.
Anyway, I removed the back cover exposing the inside. I removed the screws that anchors the electrical portion to the bottom of the case. I disconnected the speaker. I then disconnected the connections from the tube. One of the plugs removed without issue. I went to disconnect the connector that goes over the very back of the tube itself. As I disconnected the connector the tube broke off inside the connector.
I presume this ......ed the television itself.
I removed the piece and tried to glue it back into place. Seemed to work... Connected everything back up as it was after vacuuming all the crap out.
Hooked it all up and turned it on...
I noticed that I did get sound but no picture.
I looked in through the back and noticed all the tubes were lighting up as per normal and the back of the video-tube, where the break happened, seemed to be lighting up as well... Though from the front there was no picture whatsoever. The picture tube seemed to be dead.
I guess my question is... did I royally........the television set beyond repair or is there something of an easy fix/remedy?
Thank you in advance...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3064.jpg (86.3 KB, 99 views)

Last edited by Marzutra; 06-10-2017 at 09:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:17 PM
N2IXK's Avatar
N2IXK N2IXK is offline
Technohippie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sittin' on the "Group W" bench...
Posts: 799
It sounds like you just busted the plastic locating key on the base of the picture tube. Not really a big deal, and if the neck of the tube is glowing orange, you got the socket back on correctly and the vacuum wasn't released from the tube. The old plastic parts like that tube base tend to get brittle, and you really need to handle these parts with a lot of care.

Post some pics of what you have, along with a model number, and people will gladly help out. There are a LOT of things that will kill the picture on a TV besides a bad picture tube. A 50s set is generally going to need all the paper and electrolytic capacitors replaced simply due to age-related deterioration.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2017, 09:44 PM
miniman82's Avatar
miniman82 miniman82 is offline
First Light: 1952-2011
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Great Mills, MD
Posts: 4,159
Well at least if it is boned, it should be a fairly common tube to locate. Looks like maybe a 21"?
__________________
Evolution...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2017, 10:20 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
A picture from the back, showing components on the neck of the tube/high voltage connector would be helpful.

Are you sure that the set is a Philco?

jr
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:04 AM
Marzutra Marzutra is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
I think I pooched it. I really do. When I looked at the broken part; it as the plastic cover that broke however, there seemed to be rotten/broken, rust colored glass pieces on the inside. I pushed it back into place with gorilla glue and then put the 'O-ring' back over the plastic end piece and back onto the 8, or so, prongs.
I turned it on and you can see the back of the tube glow orange.
No picture from the front.
I did also notice a loose cable/wires running to the top of the rear side of the television picture tube.
Have an open house today (house is on the market) but I will try to get some pics posted...
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:33 AM
Marzutra Marzutra is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Nudes and Glow

Well, I just went down and tried to take pictures. I took pictures of the exact area that broke off - underneath - the connector and very back of the tube.
Another picture shows the connection to the top of the rear of the tube itself. The next pictures show the glowing around the connector/portion that broke off when turned on. Sorry for the poor quality.... I tried with and without flash.
Took a diagonal measurement of the tube which seems to be larger than 15" and smaller than 16"....
I also took a picture of the tube schematic and another of the back plate. Perhaps it might offer more information.
Hope it helps...
Thanks in advance..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3077.jpg (100.9 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3078.jpg (81.3 KB, 105 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3080.jpg (33.2 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3081.jpg (71.9 KB, 76 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3082.jpg (80.3 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_3083.jpg (94.2 KB, 71 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2017, 09:52 AM
N2IXK's Avatar
N2IXK N2IXK is offline
Technohippie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sittin' on the "Group W" bench...
Posts: 799
Still not clear what exactly broke. The orange glow inside the tube neck is PERFECTLY NORMAL. This is the heater that warms up the cathode. The fact that it is present shows that at least the 2 heater leads are making contact inside the socket, and the CRT is still under vacuum (you didn't break the glass seal). The locating key (at least the part we can see) looks intact. this is the plastic piece on the tube base between the pins. It serves to make sure that the socket is installed in the proper orientation. The fact that the heater is lit shows that the socket is indeed oriented correctly.

The larger diameter portion of the tube base assembly with the colored wires going into the side of it is the CRT socket. If this is what got broken, it can be replaced easily enough with one salvaged from a junked set.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-11-2017, 12:04 PM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
Couple of quick comments:

1. The CRT is still under vacuum and appears to be connected correctly since the heaters are glowing.

2. The "rust colored glass pieces" that you found were pieces of the base cap cement used to glue the base cap to the CRT.

3. If you had actually broken the tip seal off of the CRT (under the locater key) you would have heard the sound of in rushing air, filling the vacuum of the CRT.

4. Is the other end of the high voltage wire (the large white wire seen in the picture of the tube layout chart) properly plugged into the CRT?

5. Logo on the back (on serial number tag) looks to me like Phillips, not Philco... could you get a close-up pix?

https://www.google.com/search?q=phil...&client=safari

jr

Last edited by jr_tech; 06-11-2017 at 12:08 PM. Reason: add link to logo
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-11-2017, 01:57 PM
stromberg6's Avatar
stromberg6 stromberg6 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Ellington,CT
Posts: 465
I noticed the use of "scru-lox" head screws. Could this TV be a Canadian model? Did a Canadian Admiral back in the 70s, and it had those bleepin' screws. I didn't have a driver at the time, and had lots of "fun" with them LOL.
__________________
stromberg6
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:26 PM
Notimetolooz's Avatar
Notimetolooz Notimetolooz is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 547
Its a shame you didn't take pictures before you glued things back together. At the risk of incurring more damage, could you try to remove the CRT socket connector from the CRT? The round "button" in the center is part of the CRT. Push on this button with your thumb, so it doesn't move, while you pull the donut shaped CRT socket off. That TV might not be as old as you think. I'll try to post a picture, if no one else does, of what the socket and tube base might look like apart.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:00 PM
mrjukebox160 mrjukebox160 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 132
The broken wire looks to be the tuner RF wire going to chassis. Nothing to do with the CRT.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:02 PM
Notimetolooz's Avatar
Notimetolooz Notimetolooz is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 547
Here are a couple of different CRT bases.
The first one is from a 1954 TV, the second which includes the socket is from a 1962 set.

The anode wire that some have asked about should be found on the side of the CRT "funnel", about half way between the front screen and the large metal 'donut' structure called the yoke.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CRTBaseE01.jpg (73.1 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg CRTBaseE02.jpg (109.5 KB, 34 views)

Last edited by Notimetolooz; 06-11-2017 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Additional info.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:12 PM
Phil Nelson's Avatar
Phil Nelson Phil Nelson is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
5. Logo on the back (on serial number tag) looks to me like Phillips, not Philco
The badge on the cabinet front kinda resembles the Phillips badges on a couple of my old radios.

https://www.google.com/search?q=phil...w=1422&bih=689

As noted earlier, any TV of that vintage will likely need to have paper and electrolytic capacitors replaced before it will play reliably and safely. That means replacing a few dozen parts -- rather labor intensive.

This page lists a bunch of TV restoration articles; if you skim a couple, you'll get an idea what's generally required to get this sort of TV working right:

https://antiqueradio.org/televisions.htm

If you haven't restored any tube electronics before, I'd recommend practicing on a cheap tube radio from a flea market or thrift store before tackling a television, which is more complex.

Regards,

Phil Nelson
Phil's Old Radios
http://antiqueradio.org/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:49 PM
Marzutra Marzutra is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
Couple of quick comments:

1. The CRT is still under vacuum and appears to be connected correctly since the heaters are glowing.

2. The "rust colored glass pieces" that you found were pieces of the base cap cement used to glue the base cap to the CRT.

3. If you had actually broken the tip seal off of the CRT (under the locater key) you would have heard the sound of in rushing air, filling the vacuum of the CRT.

4. Is the other end of the high voltage wire (the large white wire seen in the picture of the tube layout chart) properly plugged into the CRT?

5. Logo on the back (on serial number tag) looks to me like Phillips, not Philco... could you get a close-up pix?

https://www.google.com/search?q=phil...&client=safari

jr
Thanks jr. Greatly appreciated. I plugged everything back the way it was before I started 'cleaning'. I assume the large white wire is plugged in. I do not remember touching it at all but will take a look. I might just take it to a tech to service because I don't want to electrocute myself...LOL
Oh, it is a Phillips and not Philco.
The logo looks like the one I found on the net.
I was told this set was from the '50s though not sure..

@Notimetolooz - the portion that broke is portion outlined on your first picture where the narrow top joins to the wide portion before it reaches to where the prongs are. Basically that little "nub" part.
On my picture it is the small cylinder portion that slides through the "O-ring" thing. That is the portion that broke off right under the ring - which covers the break.....
Thanks Phil,
Greatly appreciated. I'll check those links out. I think I might continue with the restoration of the case and then take it to someone who knows this stuff to do a 'servicing' to it. I was under the impression that it worked 100% when I got it - which it probably did - until I decided to clean all the crap out of it. I'll open it up again to see if everything is connected ok...

Thanks N2IXK. Greatly appreciated. You are right. I just held this portion of the tube to keep it stable while I reached in to pull it back off the four bolts holding it in place.... and 'crack'.... Very brittle...
Thanks... I'll keep posting with updates.

I didn't even see a broken wire Mr. Jukebox..lol Woops...

Oh, I uploaded a closer picture of the back with the model number. Yes... Definitely Phillips and not Philco...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_3085.jpg (119.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg index.jpg (23.6 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by Marzutra; 06-11-2017 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-11-2017, 08:06 PM
Notimetolooz's Avatar
Notimetolooz Notimetolooz is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 547
Marzutra, are you sure you have to disconnect the CRT? In many older sets the CRT is mounted to the metal chassis and everything is removable in one piece.
From the looks of you pictures, I think your CRT has the type of base shown in my second picture. That is the newer design. The plastic piece can come loose without damaging the tube pin connection, so you may not have a serious problem.
EDIT: Just read what you posted while I did. Never mind this part.
Standard warning, be very careful around the CRT neck (where the base and yoke are). There is 14.5 lbs per square inch atmospheric pressure on the glass. That's about a ton per square foot. The tube could implode if the glass breaks and you could get a face full of glass shards! A pair of goggles would be a good idea. The front glass on the cabinet is called the safety glass for a reason. The CRT glass is thicker towards the front of the CRT, but that makes it heavier than you might think.
TVs are more dangerous to work on than radios because of the CRT and the higher voltages used. I'm not sure getting into this is a good idea if you are also moving at the same time.

Last edited by Notimetolooz; 06-11-2017 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Update
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.