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#1
11-23-2011, 12:06 PM
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DTV on standard NTSC TVs
When a DTV converter box is used with an older NTSC television, I realize there will be black bars on either side of the picture (letterbox effect) as if the picture was a 16:9 one being viewed on a flat panel (I've seen this on TV commercials, whereas the program itself is a full-screen image). How does a converter box handle this? Is there a zoom button on the converter remote to change the aspect ratio from 16:9 to 4:3, as with flat-panel sets? I wonder about this because I am very new to DTV, having purchased my first FP set two months ago, and because I saw a picture in another, very recent post to this forum of a 1971 RCA console color set (CTC-44A) that showed a full picture on its 25" screen. Was that picture from a TV broadcast or a DVD? I did see what appears to be a converter box atop the television cabinet, so my best guess is the picture is from the former, probably in NTSC format since the image is full-screen, no letterboxing.
BTW, how much longer will we VKers (and anyone else) using converter boxes with older TVs be able to use these boxes? I ask because many cable systems are converting to 100 percent digital, and reception of local broadcast channels on many if not most systems will require the use of the cable operator's own cable boxes after a certain date. Time Warner Cable in my area is already digital (all major network TV stations in Cleveland show as DTV channels on my flat-panel's channel indicator), but I understand there is a hard date some time in 2012 by which time all U.S. cable systems will have to convert to full digital. It will not be an option. Time-Warner Cable here in northeastern Ohio may be completely digital, however, but the company does offer an analog cable hookup (no box required) that provides all broadcast channels and digital subchannels such as RTV, MeTV, Antenna TV and four subchannels of the PBS station here, not to mention standard cable. To get every digital channel on the cable (upwards of 120 channels), however, one must upgrade to a level of service that requires the use of a box. Is there any such thing as an ATSC digital flat-panel TV that will receive literally every channel on every North American (i. e. US and Canadian) cable system without ever having to use a cable box? I imagine the cable companies wouldn't like seeing such a set on the market, as they get a lot of their operating revenues from the rental of cable boxes and the sheer price of digital cable service itself. I once had Time-Warner digital cable with a cable box on one of my analog TVs, and was paying well over $100 each month for it; then I downgraded to standard analog cable and was paying $55.67 monthly. I don't know what I'm paying for analog cable now, as my cable service is part of a bundle -- cable, home telephone and Internet service.
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Jeff, WB8NHV Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002 Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten. 
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#2
11-23-2011, 12:30 PM
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Most of the converter boxes have a 4:3 option in the menu. I dont use it because it looks stretched. Letter box looks fine on old sets.
Today most cable and satellite boxes still have a channel 3 and composite output. Once those are gone there is an hdmi converter. There are still rf modulator converter boxes made for vga, hdmi and composite so theres hope. 40 years from now....who knows.
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#3
11-23-2011, 12:51 PM
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We're almost to the point that it's easier to watch TV via a high speed internet connection. I suppose the cable companies will combat that by raising our HS rates. I don't particularly care if I can't watch any live network TV. It's a great time to latch on to a few older DVD/VHS players with built in rf modulators. We still have basic expanded cable here, but I'm sure the end is very near.
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#4
11-23-2011, 12:53 PM
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I've got Verizon Fios, and run an HD box on an SDTV. I did this because I have a non-hd slingbox, but it doesn't handle interlaced content that great. So I mostly have the box to send 720p 16:9 in to the thing.
However, I use RF on my old TV. The box will let you pick letterbox or pan-scan options. It all works well....except....on some locals and when content is pillarboxed (4:3 matted for 16:9). I essentially wind up with a picturebox, pillarboxing from the station...letterbox because the box auto leterboxes HD channels. I have to set it to pan/scan when this happens...otherwise I enjoy the letterboxing...and the donconverts of HD *sometimes* looks sharper than the actual SD channel...although since fios runs their SD channels at full res and not 480x480 like other providers....there's rarely much difference. Sent from my Samsung Intercept with Tapatalk
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Audio: SMSL M8 -> Little Bear P5 -> Sansui SE8 -> Yaqin MS-12B -> Denon PMA-770 -> Ohm Model L | Ham: NQ4T - IC-7300 [/SIZE][/COLOR]
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#5
11-23-2011, 01:10 PM
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Over the air converter boxes usually have a zoom setting to get either letterbox (black on top and bottom) or cropped to 4x3. If you use the 4x3 option going into a 16x9 flat panel, you see stretched, but that was not your question.
On cable systems, there are sets that will receive the QAM digital signal if it's in the clear, but usually it isn't, and requires a set with a Cablecard interface and a descrambling card supplied by the cable company. The original idea of Cablecard is that it could be owned by and installed by the consumer, and portable from one cable system to another. I don't think the portable part ever worked, requiring different cards for different systems. Cable companies have dragged their feet on Cablecard availability, requiring their technician to plug it in, etc., to the point where receiver makers have given up on designing the interface into all sets. The future appears (maybe) to be a simpler cable interface box that converts to Ethernet combined with a TV with an Ethernet port.
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#6
11-23-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
 jr
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#7
06-16-2012, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
All for free. Try that with cable or fiber! Cliff
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#8
06-16-2012, 09:35 AM
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I watch both over the air and cable. All except one of the broadcasters here have subchannels. My favorite is one of the PBS subchannels. Also, all except two of the broadcasters have Spanish language subchannels, not supprising for Texas. In fact, after a recent re-scan, two independent Spanish language channels have shown up.
Cable has become almost useless for me with almost all the channels turning to reality shows, most of which I do not watch.
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#9
06-16-2012, 07:57 PM
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I would have dropped cable for OTA HD long ago, but two of the local TV stations in Cleveland (wouldn't you know it, the two stations whose subchannels are the ones I watch the most) have VHF DTV channels, which my Clear Cast OTA DTV antenna won't pick up -- that or else the stations' signals, for whatever reason, do not reach here (I am about 35 miles north and east of downtown Cleveland).
The Clear Cast does, however, receive all other OTA DTV stations in this area extremely well; in fact, I was not expecting the results I saw from this antenna when I first tried it on my flat screen. Channel 3, the NBC affiliate in Cleveland, did not reach my area in analog at all, but its digital signal is as clear as a good photograph -- as I would and do expect from DTV. Ditto for channel 5 (ABC), channels 25.1 and 25.3 (PBS and PBS World in Cleveland) and channel 61 (Univision, the only Spanish OTA television station I am aware of in northeastern Ohio).
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Jeff, WB8NHV Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002 Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten. Last edited by Jeffhs; 06-16-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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#10
06-18-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
jr
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#11
06-18-2012, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
 I LOVE watching and recording high-quality TV signals for free!
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Chris Quote from another forum: "(Antique TV collecting) always seemed to me to be a fringe hobby that only weirdos did."
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#12
07-12-2012, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Jeff, WB8NHV Collecting, restoring and enjoying vintage Zenith radios since 2002 Zenith. Gone, but not forgotten.
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#13
08-21-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Sometimes I get stations from New Jersey, Delaware, Allentown and York. Seems somewhat weather dependent. Cliff
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#14
11-23-2011, 04:27 PM
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I have OTA DTV boxes by Channel Master, Digitalstream, and Magnavox. All of these have the zoom feature. I have one box connected to a '69 Zenith tube-type B&W console and the other box connected to a '78 Sylvania solid state B&W console. The third box is used for testing TV's on the bench and the fourth box is used for a spare.
The other TV's in the house are connected to comcast cable. For now, 2-12 can be received by an older analog set. Any channel above 12 requires the use of one of their "digital devices". Their basic digital transport adapter is about the size of a deck of playing cards and it tunes the digital cable channels and outputs an NTSC signal on either channel 3 or 4. There are no buttons on the box and there are no A/V output jacks. If you lose the remote or if the remote fails to operate, you are stuck. The other box is the big Motorola model that allows the user to access PPV movies, etc. I heard that sometime in 2012, they would be stopping analog delivery of channels 2-12; but, I guess only time will tell. How long will we be able to use our older TV's? I suppose that we'll be able to use them as long as there is some type of D2A converter available. As far as OTA boxes, they are already getting hard to find on the new market. In fact, most stores around here discontinued them not long after the DTV transition. AFAIK, Radio Shack still carries the digitalstream box. I'm trying to get as many boxes as I can because I know there will be a time when they are NLA and the ones we currently have will eventually die. The cable boxes and the OTA boxes will work on virtually any TV that can receive NTSC channels 3 or 4. If the TV has 300 ohm screw-style antenna input terminals, an inexpensive 300ohm/75ohm balun can be used to connect the 75 ohm coax lead from the box to the 300 ohm VHF antenna input terminals on the TV.
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#15
11-23-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
http://www.solidsignal.com/cview.asp...verter%20Boxes Amazon seems to have a good supply: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...Adtv+converter I'm not too worried ...yet! Not affiliated, jr Last edited by jr_tech; 11-23-2011 at 06:11 PM. Reason: add second link
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