Finally, some good news regarding AM radio

[radiotvnut]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

I wish some of these "Bible-Beater" stations down here would go back to music. Every one of 'em is an "old-timey" full gospel station, which means they scream & shout, & are about as subtle in their message as Little Boy was w/Hiroshima. Furthermore, if all THAT wasn't bad enuff, their chief engineer at most of them must be someone who knows nothing about modulation or broadcasting-Just turn 'er up as loud as she'll go.Gotta get The Word out there to all them there now Heatherns...

We have 3 African-American Gospel stations, 1 Southern-Gospel station, and two "blabber-mouth" stations that cover, maybe, 45,000 people.

One of the African-American Gospel stations WAS a good music station until they switched over without warning. The DJ's didn't have a clue what was about to happen until they were showed the door. That format switch caused quite an uproar in this town.

One of the other Gospel stations plays a couple hours of modern R&B music a day; but, I can't get into that, either.

All of the Gospel stations in my area don't have the best fidelity. Either they are very loud and distorted or they are so weak you can't hardly hear them.

I guess I'll have to start my own oldies AM station as soon as I win the lottery!

[Celt]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

Commercial radio is a very competitive business, where numbers are everything. It may well be that many talk radio stations, especially in very large markets, are finding (sometimes after only a short time as talkers) they are being eaten alive by their competition--especially in huge markets such as New York or Los Angeles. That seems to fit the four stations you mention rather well.

BTW, if two of the four stations sound as good as you say, I wonder if they weren't music stations before they were ever switched to talk; if so, their licensees/owners did the right thing putting the music back. There is entirely too much talk radio on the AM dial in most major cities today as it is. (How many AM talk stations can you hear in Paragould? I would guess quite a few, as you aren't that far from Jonesboro or even Little Rock.) An example of this was when one of the active rock FM stations in Cleveland was switched to talk a couple of weeks ago. Really! The AM radio dial in northeastern Ohio is already full to overflowing with talk/sports/news-talk stations (there is only one AM music station left, WWMK 1260, the Radio Disney station); now there is one (just one) FM talker where Cleveland's first hard-rock station used to be. I certainly hope the other 20+ local FM stations don't get ideas from this and start flipping right and left to talk, although, since Cleveland is the home of rock and roll (the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in the downtown section of the city), I don't think any more of the city's music stations will be abandoning their formats any time soon.

The AM and FM bands here are extremely crowded. The AM band is full of the nonsense that one associates with AM these days. So, hearing MUSIC was a pleasant surprise. Most of the stations around here have been on the air since before WWII, so they started off being music stations. With the exception of two NPR stations (Jonesboro and Memphis), I gave up on FM years ago. It's now full of Clear Channel classic rock stations or *what passes for country music these days* stations.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

I wish some of these "Bible-Beater" stations down here would go back to music. Every one of 'em is an "old-timey" full gospel station, which means they scream & shout, & are about as subtle in their message as Little Boy was w/Hiroshima. Furthermore, if all THAT wasn't bad enuff, their chief engineer at most of them must be someone who knows nothing about modulation or broadcasting-Just turn 'er up as loud as she'll go.Gotta get The Word out there to all them there now Heatherns...

There is a small AM station about five miles from my apartment that is something like the "Bible-beater" stations in your area. Fortunately, it's not too powerful (1kW days, 0.5kW nights) and I am far enough away from its towers that it doesn't take over my radios at any time, although the signal is strong enough during the day that it shows up at two points on the digital tuner in my stereo system--560 and 1460 kHz, the latter being the station's FCC-assigned carrier frequency. As far as the station's programming is concerned, as I said, it is a 24/7 religious black gospel station that will stop at nothing to get its message out--including running the modulation level to 110 percent. No kidding--sometimes (make that most of the time) the modulation is so high the signal is terribly distorted as well. I thought there were limits as to the maximum modulation level allowed for AM radio; if there are, the stations where you are and the little one near me, in addition to countless other such stations in small towns and even suburbs of important cities that don't seem to care how they sound (as long as they are loud), should have been either cited for overmodulation or put off the air entirely, as their apparent disregard for their sound quality, let alone FCC rules, is appalling. IMO, it gives AM radio a heck of a bad name. Thank goodness for stations such as Toronto's CHWO AM 740, which still plays decent music and whose engineers know something about transmitting quality AM signals.

[radiotvnut]

From what I'm hearing, the FCC don't bother AM stations anymore unless someone complains. And, most of the people around here that listen to those crappy sounding AM stations don't care what they sound like. As long as their radio rattles, that's all they care about.

[fsjonsey]

Speaking of over the border blowtorches, didn't Radio Habana cuba tune one of their 100kw+ transmitters onto the AM broadcast band sometime back in the 80's? From what I remember someone telling me, it could be heard clearly up here in Ohio.

[radiotvnut]

I think that did indeed happen. I heard that they did it because strong US stations were interfering with their stations and Cuba decided to give it right back.

[Arkay]

I remember listening to KOY in Arizona in the 1960s on a 1950s Philco tube radio. They played classic rock/pop/oldies, but didn't call them oldies , because they were new back then!

Here in Hong Kong, average Chinese-language station, even if the music they choose isn't cruddy Canto-pop garbage, sounds like this:

talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, SONG, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, SONG, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, SONG, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk

...and the talking they do is mostly obnoxious, stupid stuff, delivered in a very "low class" style. There are exceptions, of course (maybe 2 DJs out of the bunch), but so few and far between that it isn't worth trying to find them.

The only two good stations here are a classical station on FM, and an [English-language] oldies/pop music station on AM (switches to simultaneously broadcasting on AM and FM at midnight, until about 6 a.m....). The BEST broadcast in Hong Kong is non-stop oldies/classic rock (zero talking, just song after song) from 4 to 6 a.m. on that FM frequency. The classical FM station is generally quite good, but I'm not always in the mood for classical, only sometimes.

To get those stations clearly, I spent a while researching, choosing and getting a good FM antenna, properly mounted/oriented, and then made a tunable square-loop AM antenna. The AM signal was quite strong already, but the better antenna still further improved the sound quality. I'd like to get a "Signal Sleuth" to further improve the FM sound, too, but the only one I found locally was over-priced, so I'm still looking.

[holmesuser01]

Here in the mountains of western North Carolina, I can pick up WCBS 880 at night after the local talk radio shuts down at dusk. I can also get WLAC from Nashville, TN at 1510 on the dial. This is using my Fairbanks Morse model 8A from the late 1930's.

Lots of bible thumper stations around here, too. Several of them are FM, but still loud.

I have a length of wire hanging in my attic for the radio. AM comes alive at night around here. DXing is so fun!

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by fsjonsey

Speaking of over the border blowtorches, didn't Radio Habana cuba tune one of their 100kw+ transmitters onto the AM broadcast band sometime back in the 80's? From what I remember someone telling me, it could be heard clearly up here in Ohio.

I remember that, I think it was around 1100 kc, I think Radio Habana Cuba was "walking over" WWWE (now WTAM) out of Cleveland when I was listening to them here in Pittsburgh. Sometimes I like to listen to George Noory/Art Bell and Michael Savage on WKBN, 570 kc, out of Youngstown when the Pittsburgh Pirates pre-empt those shows (104.7 Mc, FM) and at night, I can always hear Cuba's "Radio Reloj" (Radio Clock) under WKBN's signal. There are times when Radio Reloj "walks over" WKBN as well.

[Jeffhs]

Originally Posted by NowhereMan 1966

I remember that, I think it was around 1100 kc, I think Radio Habana Cuba was "walking over" WWWE (now WTAM) out of Cleveland when I was listening to them here in Pittsburgh. Sometimes I like to listen to George Noory/Art Bell and Michael Savage on WKBN, 570 kc, out of Youngstown when the Pittsburgh Pirates pre-empt those shows (104.7 Mc, FM) and at night, I can always hear Cuba's "Radio Reloj" (Radio Clock) under WKBN's signal. There are times when Radio Reloj "walks over" WKBN as well.

That's interesting. I never had that kind of interference, even at night, when I would listen to WWWE back in the '70s-'80s in suburban Cleveland, and certainly never before then when 3WE (as the station was known in the '70s before they went to news-talk) was a music station. However, I guess that's because WWWE (now WTAM) is a local station to the Cleveland area; the signal anywhere in the metropolitan area is strong enough to override any interference from any other station on the frequency. But when you're listening from out of town, it can be and very often is anyone's guess what may come in with the signal you're trying to listen to.

I haven't listened to Youngstown's WKBN for years (I can hear it here fairly well most of the time), but was certainly unaware that any Cuban station could be heard underneath their 5kW signal. The Cuban station must be running a blockbuster signal if it can be heard in the Pittsburgh area, almost like the high-power unregulated "blowtorch" stations in Mexico, across the border from Phoenix, Arizona. However, the latter have made a shambles of the AM broadcast band in that area after sunset, except for a few news-talk and sports stations; at least in greater Pittsburgh, the interference to WKBN you're getting doesn't seem to be a constant problem. Again, it's likely due to the fact that you're listening to WKBN from outside their normal listening area. I honestly don't think that station's listeners in the greater Youngstown area have interference problems from any other signal; if they did, I'm sure the FCC would have heard about it long ago. I don't recall offhand how far Pittsburgh is from Youngstown, but if it's any appreciable distance, the AM radio signals from the latter may be and likely are far weaker in your area than they would be in the immediate Youngstown area.

While not nearly as common as long-distance AM reception, a similar condition can occur with FM radio under the proper conditions. I'm sure you may have heard FM repeaters or FM broadcast stations from other parts of Pennsylvania or even northeastern/eastern Ohio during temperature inversions and other unusual weather conditions; around here, 35 miles east of Cleveland and one mile (more or less) from the southern shore of Lake Erie, I often hear standard FM radio stations from Canada (southwestern Ontario), Detroit, Toledo, Ohio and even Youngstown and Erie, Pennsylvania, as well as the local FM stations from Cleveland. When the conditions are right, the FM radio dial in this area just lights up with stations, especially on my Zenith C845 and MJ1035 radios, both of which are designed for high-performance, long-distance reception even using simple antennas (a built-in antenna on the C845 and an old pair of TV rabbit ears on the MJ1035). I almost hate to think how many stations I'd get under summer/early fall propagation conditions if either of these sets were connected to a really good outdoor antenna--I'd probably have more signals coming in than I could count. No wonder so many 2-meter FM repeaters which are normally open access during fall and winter have to be put on tone-access mode (CTCSS or PL) in the summer.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

That's interesting. I never had that kind of interference, even at night, when I would listen to WWWE back in the '70s-'80s in suburban Cleveland, and certainly never before then when 3WE (as the station was known in the '70s before they went to news-talk) was a music station. However, I guess that's because WWWE (now WTAM) is a local station to the Cleveland area; the signal anywhere in the metropolitan area is strong enough to override any interference from any other station on the frequency. But when you're listening from out of town, it can be and very often is anyone's guess what may come in with the signal you're trying to listen to.

I haven't listened to Youngstown's WKBN for years (I can hear it here fairly well most of the time), but was certainly unaware that any Cuban station could be heard underneath their 5kW signal. The Cuban station must be running a blockbuster signal if it can be heard in the Pittsburgh area, almost like the high-power unregulated "blowtorch" stations in Mexico, across the border from Phoenix, Arizona. However, the latter have made a shambles of the AM broadcast band in that area after sunset, except for a few news-talk and sports stations; at least in greater Pittsburgh, the interference to WKBN you're getting doesn't seem to be a constant problem. Again, it's likely due to the fact that you're listening to WKBN from outside their normal listening area. I honestly don't think that station's listeners in the greater Youngstown area have interference problems from any other signal; if they did, I'm sure the FCC would have heard about it long ago. I don't recall offhand how far Pittsburgh is from Youngstown, but if it's any appreciable distance, the AM radio signals from the latter may be and likely are far weaker in your area than they would be in the immediate Youngstown area.

While not nearly as common as long-distance AM reception, a similar condition can occur with FM radio under the proper conditions. I'm sure you may have heard FM repeaters or FM broadcast stations from other parts of Pennsylvania or even northeastern/eastern Ohio during temperature inversions and other unusual weather conditions; around here, 35 miles east of Cleveland and one mile (more or less) from the southern shore of Lake Erie, I often hear standard FM radio stations from Canada (southwestern Ontario), Detroit, Toledo, Ohio and even Youngstown and Erie, Pennsylvania, as well as the local FM stations from Cleveland. When the conditions are right, the FM radio dial in this area just lights up with stations, especially on my Zenith C845 and MJ1035 radios, both of which are designed for high-performance, long-distance reception even using simple antennas (a built-in antenna on the C845 and an old pair of TV rabbit ears on the MJ1035). I almost hate to think how many stations I'd get under summer/early fall propagation conditions if either of these sets were connected to a really good outdoor antenna--I'd probably have more signals coming in than I could count. No wonder so many 2-meter FM repeaters which are normally open access during fall and winter have to be put on tone-access mode (CTCSS or PL) in the summer.

WTAM (3WE) does (and did) come into the Pittsburgh area at night and in the day although it is a bit weak but listenable. Listening to Rush Limbaugh, if KDKA or WKBN pre-empted him, sometimes I went to WTAM (3WE) although the best reception was in the car. I like to use www.radio-locator.com and WTAM is omnidirectional and I live right at the edge of the "distant" line for WTAM.

WKBN, well, in the daytime, it is almost omni-directional and in the daytime, I'm just at the edge of what is considered local coverage. At night, they switch patterns and you have three major lobes, one to the southwest towards Canton/Akron, to the southeast towards Pittsburgh, and a huge one to the north towards where you live. At night, I might be considered borderline local/distant while you would still be "local." Just about every night, I do hear the Cubans in the background. I think the last time I looked into a 1980's WRTH era book, the Cuban "Radio Reloj" puts out like 150 or even 300 kilowatts.


FM wise, sometimes I hear Cleveland stations via ducting. I did hear a Christian one around 106 or 107 Mc. One other time, I received our local police department on 460.050 Mc as far away as Canton, Ohio on my scanner and I heard an ambulance called out for my next door neighbor.

Labor Day 2001, I was with friends in Erie and I tried to raise local hams on 2 meters, no luck, so I heard the Ontario PPD in the 142 Mc range so I decided to tune around 2 meters and I decided to talk to Canadian hams instead. I got one repeater that was 50 miles across Lake Erie and 20 or 30 miles inland so my signal went 70 or 80 miles. One interesting fact, I used a rubber duckie antenna and I was only putting out 1 watt on low power. I guess since it was a regular workday in Canada, I had better luck up there.

KA3WRW

[radiotvnut]

OK, some more good news. KMOX-1120 of St. Louis is now broadcasting a music program on Saturday night called "Route 66." They play music from '55-'67. I really enjoyed it and so did the '38 Airline radio! I was looking on the KMOX website and they went all talk in 1960. I didn't think AM talk radio started until the '80's. I don't think there's a soul alive that hates talk radio more than I do.

[Hemingray]

Originally Posted by Celt

The AM and FM bands here are extremely crowded. The AM band is full of the nonsense that one associates with AM these days. So, hearing MUSIC was a pleasant surprise. Most of the stations around here have been on the air since before WWII, so they started off being music stations. With the exception of two NPR stations (Jonesboro and Memphis), I gave up on FM years ago. It's now full of Clear Channel classic rock stations or *what passes for country music these days* stations.

Can you recieve 1320 out of Walnut Ridge? Although they only operate during the day, they have good oldies.

[NowhereMan 1966]

Originally Posted by radiotvnut

OK, some more good news. KMOX-1120 of St. Louis is now broadcasting a music program on Saturday night called "Route 66." They play music from '55-'67. I really enjoyed it and so did the '38 Airline radio! I was looking on the KMOX website and they went all talk in 1960. I didn't think AM talk radio started until the '80's. I don't think there's a soul alive that hates talk radio more than I do.

I'm glad to see it. I'll have to see if I can pull them in here in Pittsburgh although I do listen to WABC, 770 kc, out of New York on Saturday nights. If the ionosphere is willing, I like to use my 1953 Philco 5 tube radio or my 1965 8 transistor Magnavox (Maggie) radio.

Talk radio has been around probably since even the 1940's, after World War II, I think the legendary Joe Pine got his start that way. Still, I think the modern sense that we know today didn't get much of a hold until the 1960's, I know WNBC was talk part-time then, you had talkshow hosts like "Long John" Nebbel and Joe Pine again. I think they were mainly on at weeknights. Here is Pittsburgh on KDKA radio from the 1950's until 1971, we had a husband/wife couple, "Ed and Wendy King," where the caller was not heard over the radio but either Ed or Wendy would repeat what they said.

I think there is a demand for music on AM, a lot of people fondly remember it. I'm a huge talkshow junkie myself but there are times I need to get away from that stuff and think back to the 1970's when I was a kid.

[Jeffhs]

Talk radio is beginning to appear on the FM band in some cities, in addition to or instead of on AM. In my area just outside greater Cleveland, I now hear talk programming part of the time on WMMS-FM which used to be 100-percent active rock--the first talk FM station so far in Cleveland. (I wonder which station here, if any, will be next to go all-talk.)

Oldies, on the other hand, seem to have left AM in this area (and probably in many other cities as well) for FM. I can hear at least two FM oldies stations here, one from Cleveland (WMJI-Majic 105.7) and another from a lakefront city 50 miles from Cleveland (WZOO, Magic Oldies 102-5). This is not to say that all oldies stations have fled AM for FM; some small towns/suburbs still have AM oldies radio, such as WKFB-AM 770 in Jeannette, Pennsylvania (as I found out after doing a search using RadioLocator.com). There was a small oldies AM station in the Cleveland metropolitan area until about four years ago (WELW-AM 1330 in Willoughby, east-suburban Cleveland) that switched to syndicated talk, dropping its solid-gold oldies on a Friday. I can only imagine how upset some listeners may have been when they tuned their radios to 1330 the following Monday morning, only to hear national talk hosts rather than the oldies this station had been playing for some four or five years; the format (WELW's oldies format) was modeled after that of CKLW-AM 800 when that station was "The Big Eight" in the '60s-'70s. The station (WELW 1330) also had two of the best local oldies DJs in the business during its oldies days, both of whom were let go when the format changed.