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  #61  
Old 01-17-2017, 01:51 PM
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jr_tech jr_tech is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamakiri View Post
My '54 Desoto Firedome had a 276 Hemi V8......
I'm confused... are these early hemi engines with small displacement not considered to be "small block"? Does "small block" also imply lightweight thin wall casting as seen in the LA series?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine

jr
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  #62  
Old 01-17-2017, 10:01 PM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
I'm confused... are these early hemi engines with small displacement not considered to be "small block"? Does "small block" also imply lightweight thin wall casting as seen in the LA series?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine

jr
With the Hemis the term "hemi" referred to the fact that the engines had hemispherical combustion chambers as opposed to cyindrical combustion chambers, as far as I know none of the Hemis were considered "small block" engines they were always considered big block engines.
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  #63  
Old 01-18-2017, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon A. View Post
Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. The Buick 3800s are probably the finest American-built engines in my opinion.
Great haul tud1 and could not agree more with the GM 3800 engine comments. Had a 2001 Regal, perfect 3800, that got totaled in 2015. We now have a 2013 Impala with the 3.5 VVT engine in it. I like it just as well.
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  #64  
Old 01-18-2017, 02:15 AM
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Ok, Captainclock. There are all sorts of things wrong with what you are saying here. *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
OK, that's interesting because everywhere I read online said that a failed rear Oxygen sensor (which is part of the catalytic converter assembly) would cause a car's fuel economy to drop off.
A downstream oxygen sensor will not (on most vehicles) mess with fuel economy, or how the engine runs. The downstream sensor exists only to monitor the performance of the catalytic converter. The upstream oxygen sensor, however, exists to monitor the fuel/air ratio at which the engine is running, giving the input to the computer so it can adjust how much fuel it injects, and also to provide a baseline for the calculation of converter efficiency, which then also uses input from the downstream sensor.

Also, it is not 'part of' the converter assembly. It's probably just rusted stuck in the bung, and that mechanic you talked to recommended just changing the whole shebang to make things easier for everyone. I would recommend the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
Also why would it be a "general rule of thumb" that cars only get 200 miles on a tank of gas
Because it's a regulation for cars sold in the USA. Any car must be capable of going 200 miles on a tank of gas. But you do realize that maybe different cars get different gas mileage? And have different sizes of fuel tanks? That's why it's a guideline, not an immuteable law.

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Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
because like I was saying above I had read in several online forums pertaining to car maintenance
Exactly. There's your problem. You haven't talked to a real mechanic about the subject. You are now. That one guy you talked to, well, I would recommend the same thing he did, but I would additionally advise you as I am now, about this predicament, to get you completely informed about the matter at hand before you start throwing money at it. Because, if all you say is correct, you're gonna replace that converter and sensor, and the car won't run any better, or improve the fuel economy, and you're gonna think that mechanic did something wrong, when in reality, you're just not fully informed of the situation. Read what I said again:

Quote:
However, if you are absolutely certain you were getting more mpgs before the catalytic problem, the reverse of what you said is likely true. That the converter is suffering because of the mileage problem. Ask a real mechanic to do a good tune up and see that the motor runs right first.
You have a converter efficiency problem (or so I gather). But you also have, with it, a fuel economy problem. Likely, what is actually happening here (as I've been trying to explain) is that because the engine is running poorly, too rich most likely (using too much gas), the catalytic converter will not be able to keep up, thus giving you a code for converter efficiency. Which, btw, I'm only guessing that's the code you had, because you never actually said, only implied. In many scenarios, the engine computer will not really 'know' that the engine is running too rich or not firing right or what have you, it simply thinks it is making the appropriate corrections, and for some reason the catalytic converter isn't doing its job. When in reality, this might not be the case at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
but I'm also wondering if it isn't just because the engine was filled too full of oil and because of that some of the excess oil is being sprayed out of the engine onto the exhaust manifold which is similar to what a lawnmower does when its overfilled with oil

Facehoof.

O_o That's just... I don't even. Your car is not a lawnmower. It's also not British, a tractor, or made before 1960. It's not supposed to leak oil -or- burn it. If it's overfilled, it will usually just burn the oil out, like a lawnmower, (which will damage the converter, btw). But you say it's leaking out of the valve cover onto the exhaust manifold. Which, though not terribly common on American cars, if it's bad enough, can leak vacuum as well, and make the engine run poorly.

There are all sorts of possible causes why your mpg's might be down. Converter efficiency and/or downstream O2 sensor? Not generally among those causes. 'sall I'm saying.

Last edited by MadMan; 01-18-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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  #65  
Old 01-18-2017, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
With the Hemis the term "hemi" referred to the fact that the engines had hemispherical combustion chambers as opposed to cyindrical combustion chambers, as far as I know none of the Hemis were considered "small block" engines they were always considered big block engines.
Hemi Cylinders are still normal cylinders...Why they are called hemi is that the top of the chamber and the piston are domed rather than flat (which has performance advantages).
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Last edited by Electronic M; 01-18-2017 at 07:03 AM.
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  #66  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MadMan View Post
Ok, Captainclock. There are all sorts of things wrong with what you are saying here. *sigh*



A downstream oxygen sensor will not (on most vehicles) mess with fuel economy, or how the engine runs. The downstream sensor exists only to monitor the performance of the catalytic converter. The upstream oxygen sensor, however, exists to monitor the fuel/air ratio at which the engine is running, giving the input to the computer so it can adjust how much fuel it injects, and also to provide a baseline for the calculation of converter efficiency, which then also uses input from the downstream sensor.

Also, it is not 'part of' the converter assembly. It's probably just rusted stuck in the bung, and that mechanic you talked to recommended just changing the whole shebang to make things easier for everyone. I would recommend the same thing.



Because it's a regulation for cars sold in the USA. Any car must be capable of going 200 miles on a tank of gas. But you do realize that maybe different cars get different gas mileage? And have different sizes of fuel tanks? That's why it's a guideline, not an immuteable law.



Exactly. There's your problem. You haven't talked to a real mechanic about the subject. You are now. That one guy you talked to, well, I would recommend the same thing he did, but I would additionally advise you as I am now, about this predicament, to get you completely informed about the matter at hand before you start throwing money at it. Because, if all you say is correct, you're gonna replace that converter and sensor, and the car won't run any better, or improve the fuel economy, and you're gonna think that mechanic did something wrong, when in reality, you're just not fully informed of the situation. Read what I said again:



You have a converter efficiency problem (or so I gather). But you also have, with it, a fuel economy problem. Likely, what is actually happening here (as I've been trying to explain) is that because the engine is running poorly, too rich most likely (using too much gas), the catalytic converter will not be able to keep up, thus giving you a code for converter efficiency. Which, btw, I'm only guessing that's the code you had, because you never actually said, only implied. In many scenarios, the engine computer will not really 'know' that the engine is running too rich or not firing right or what have you, it simply thinks it is making the appropriate corrections, and for some reason the catalytic converter isn't doing its job. When in reality, this might not be the case at all.




Facehoof.

O_o That's just... I don't even. Your car is not a lawnmower. It's also not British, a tractor, or made before 1960. It's not supposed to leak oil -or- burn it. If it's overfilled, it will usually just burn the oil out, like a lawnmower, (which will damage the converter, btw). But you say it's leaking out of the valve cover onto the exhaust manifold. Which, though not terribly common on American cars, if it's bad enough, can leak vacuum as well, and make the engine run poorly.

There are all sorts of possible causes why your mpg's might be down. Converter efficiency and/or downstream O2 sensor? Not generally among those causes. 'sall I'm saying.
OK, well then I guess that I will need to replace the valve cover gasket then because that's what the mechanic said the engine was doing (and in fact that same thing happened to my Chrysler Cirrus I had before except instead of the oil leaking onto the exhaust manifold like my Buick is it leaked into the spark plug chambers. And I'm guessing that according to what you were just saying that the engine being filled too full of oil is probably why I'm having issues with my Catalytic converter, although if that's the case I wonder why the mechanic didn't notice that... because I knew the engine was too full of oil but I didn't say anything to the mechanic about it because I thought they would of noticed that themselves, but apparently they didn't.
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  #67  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
And I'm guessing that according to what you were just saying that the engine being filled too full of oil is probably why I'm having issues with my Catalytic converter, although if that's the case I wonder why the mechanic didn't notice that... because I knew the engine was too full of oil but I didn't say anything to the mechanic about it because I thought they would of noticed that themselves, but apparently they didn't.
Well, check the oil level. It might have leaked down to where it should be, by now. And it IS a possibility that the converter is now oil-fouled. But still, if your fuel economy is down, I'm betting there is yet still another culprit.
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  #68  
Old 01-18-2017, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Electronic M View Post
Why they are called hemi is that the top of the chamber and the piston are domed rather than flat (which has performance advantages).
Yes it does. You know, a lot of people say that the dome shape itself has something to do with it, and while it might, the real appeal of the hemispherical combustion chamber is that there is a lot more surface area on the underside of the cylinder head. A lot more real estate for much, much bigger valves than you'd have with a more conventionally designed head. And those huge valves allow the engine to breathe so much better. It's the same reason why 4-valve engines became a thing.
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  #69  
Old 01-19-2017, 06:01 PM
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Well, check the oil level. It might have leaked down to where it should be, by now. And it IS a possibility that the converter is now oil-fouled. But still, if your fuel economy is down, I'm betting there is yet still another culprit.
Well the last 2 times I checked the oil level the oil level was still at the same level which was a quart over so it doesn't seem like if the car is leaking oil somehow it isn't leaking very fast or not at all... and the last time I checked the oil in the car was about a week ago. And the reason why I think the fuel economy is down (and I'm guess it is but not sure as I don't have experience with the Series II 3800's just the Series I 3800's) is because my parents have a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country Limited with a 3.8 Litre V6 engine in it (which is the same size as the 3800) and they have no problems with getting around 315-320 miles on a single tank of gas (grant it they have a 20 gallon gas tank in that thing vs. my Regal's 17 Gallon Gas Tank although I would think a car would would do better on gas mileage than a minivan would) and my 1988 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with a 3800 in it did about 330 miles on a single tank of gas, but I'm lucky to get 260 miles on a single tank of gas on my Regal, which tells me something is definitely screwing up the car's fuel economy as to what, I'm not sure.
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  #70  
Old 01-19-2017, 06:33 PM
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Losing engine oil is one thing, but in the US you chill for nothing on gasoline because you pay the gasoline quite a bit cheaper than we in Canada ... you pay your gasoline to the gallon we pay almost $ 1.25 Sometimes $ 1.45 per liter in the province of Quebec and even elsewhere in Canada! .

So I understand the problem of oil that gets lost or when the engine burns the oil and it's normal when an engine starts to age or when a person does not take care of its mechanics but I see Many Americans complain about the price of gas. Say you are very lucky to pay your gasoline to the gallon while we here we pay it to liter ..
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  #71  
Old 01-19-2017, 06:41 PM
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This is at least what I found when speaking with Americans of my acquaintance To follow up my comment I sent too fast lolll
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  #72  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:22 PM
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This is at least what I found when speaking with Americans of my acquaintance To follow up my comment I sent too fast lolll
Yes, i'm very much aware of the per liter vs per gallon difference when paying for gas, which paying 2 or 3 dollars per liter I realize you pay a lot more to fill up your car than if you pay 2 or 3 dollars per gallon, but you also have to realize where we American's come from when we complain about how much we pay for gas, you guys on one hand have been paying $2-3 per liter for gasoline for the past 30+ years or so, whereas us Americans have only been paying $2-3 per gallon for about 10 years now and before that we paid between $0.80-$1.50 a gallon which works out to roughly about $15-20 for a fill up of your avarage gas tank, whereas now with $2-3 a gallon your avarage gas tank costs about $30-$50 to fill up, that's a huge expense when you think that that's about how much you could pay for a grocery run at Aldi...
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  #73  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:26 PM
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That's the price you pay to live in Canada.

You pay about 4X the taxes for your gasoline in Canada.
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  #74  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
Well the last 2 times I checked the oil level the oil level was still at the same level which was a quart over... I'm lucky to get 260 miles on a single tank of gas on my Regal, which tells me something is definitely screwing up the car's fuel economy as to what, I'm not sure.

What does the tailpipe look like? All carboned up, black soot? Might be running so rich because it's cold or not getting up to temp there could be so much blowby past the piston rings of unburned fuel it's adding to the oil in the crankcase. It can happen.
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  #75  
Old 01-19-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Marco-nix View Post
Losing engine oil is one thing, but in the US you chill for nothing on gasoline because you pay the gasoline quite a bit cheaper than we in Canada ... you pay your gasoline to the gallon we pay almost $ 1.25 Sometimes $ 1.45 per liter in the province of Quebec and even elsewhere in Canada! .

So I understand the problem of oil that gets lost or when the engine burns the oil and it's normal when an engine starts to age or when a person does not take care of its mechanics but I see Many Americans complain about the price of gas. Say you are very lucky to pay your gasoline to the gallon while we here we pay it to liter ..
Also when your car isn't using your gas as efficiently as it should then yes it does hurt you when you have to make a run for gas more often than you need to, because if you have to make that $30 gas fill up run 5 times a month when it should only be 2 or 3 times a month then you're basically wasting your money. As for the oil bit, a car that has only a little over 100,000 miles on it shouldn't be having issues with with oil leaks and or terrible fuel mileage or a bad catalytic converter, especially not the later because its supposed to last you the entire life of the car, at least as long as the engine's maintenance is kept up properly, and going by what I've always been told about the GM 3800s they're supposed to go to at least 300,000 miles before needing any major work done on them as long as they have been regularly maintained.
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