Show us your vintage color sets!

[Sandy G]

Welcome, Barry & Bluenorm to our little crazyhouse here..Norm, that's a REAL purty set you got there..Barry, we got a member, Yagosaga, who's in Germany, & may be able to shed some light on yr set. You might try PMing him...Again, welcome guys ! If you have a strange affliction/affection for old round color sets, this is THE place to be.-Sandy G.

[jroberts500]

Originally Posted by Harold Deppe

Hi all,

This is my first post to this very interesting site.

I recently started restoration on a CTC-16 with a rebuilt 21FJP22.
The CRT looked very good on the checker and when fired up produced a good picture with excellent gray scale tracking. One night after watching it for about an hour I shut it down and went to bed. Two days later I decided to work on some issues with the convergence board. I was horrified to see the gun assembly hanging limp. During cool down, the contraction of the glass must have caused a weakened neck seal to let go. Up to this point, it was a great tube with only the slightest hint of delamination of the face plate (barely noticeable with high brightness).

Anybody know of a source of 21FJP22's?

Harold

Sounds like the yoke should be removed whenever those sets are transported as I expect even gentle shaking from a truck-bed could put a micro crack in an imperfect neck.

[3Guncolor]

I had the same thing happen on a 21fjp22 rebuild that had low hours on it. Broke right where the new gun and neck was spiced together. That was over 20 years ago. To this day I am still very careful with rebuilt tubes.

[jshorva65]

A friend and fellow collector, semi-local to my area, recently scored two 1958 Sylvania color models belonging to the 31C606 series. They're 31C606MU (full-size console) with the then-optional UHF tuner installed and 31C606M (resembling a tabletop with tall detachable legs). We checked the CRT's yesterday and his 31C606MU was blessed with a serviceable CRT and produced a raster after its soft-start. He's not quite comfortable with attempting a recap of a color chassis himself, so he and I worked out a trade where I'll be replacing all the "bumblebee" caps and bringing his obviously-restorable set back to life in exchange for its 31C606M sister set whose CRT will need to be replaced, since I've recapped color sets before and he's afraid that the critical lead dress considerations of a color set might get him into trouble in the IF and/or Chroma since it would be his first time recapping a color set. There was another set in the way, so I couldn't get a good camera angle on his Sylvania roundie. Here's a shot of my "barter score", though, which is its "little sister" in a somewhat smaller cabinet without the UHF option installed.

[John Folsom]

Very interesting set, what a great score! Is this a Sylvania design, or a RCA clone chassis?

[Steve D.]

John,

Very nice find. And a pair of them no less. Your set looks to be the Sylvania table/consolette model 31T304 "The Granada." The other, as you mentioned, is the Sylvania console model 31C606 "The Saratoga." I believe Sylvania only produced the two models starting in 1957. Both were available in Mahogany and Blonde Korina finishes. The control layout above the screen would suggest this is a Sylvania designed chassis.

-Steve D.

[John Marinello]

Originally Posted by Harold Deppe

Hi all,

This is my first post to this very interesting site.

I recently started restoration on a CTC-16 with a rebuilt 21FJP22.
The CRT looked very good on the checker and when fired up produced a good picture with excellent gray scale tracking. One night after watching it for about an hour I shut it down and went to bed. Two days later I decided to work on some issues with the convergence board. I was horrified to see the gun assembly hanging limp. During cool down, the contraction of the glass must have caused a weakened neck seal to let go. Up to this point, it was a great tube with only the slightest hint of delamination of the face plate (barely noticeable with high brightness).

Anybody know of a source of 21FJP22's?

Harold

I've seen this happen on 2 sets, and I'm blaming the blue lateral magnet, but only if that's where the break occurred. Think about it folks, the magnet is held by a brass strap (bad), which is then secured by a steel spring wrapped around the neck, worse!! When that assembly gets moved around on the neck, especially one that's dirty, it causes minute scratches. Enter heating & cooling (expansion & contraction) due to the filaments, and anyone who has cut glass in the past will know what's bound to occur next: a crack. The crack will form in a perfect circle around the neck, and the neck will fall off after loss of vacuum. Symptom on one set was dim & blurry picture. I then saw the ring crack under the BL magnet. I immediately slid the mag forward, cleaned the glass with Windex, and applied a bead of silicone. Fixed. I let the set operate for a few hours, and the getters mopped up whatever air leaked in, and was once again rewarded with a beautiful picture. I know that set was watched for a least 1.5 - 2 years before something else failed, and the set was pitched. Yes, I wish I still had that set, but that was 29 years ago, and nobody wanted roundies back then. The crack did not form at a neck splice, as these were both OEM tubes.

[jshorva65]

Originally Posted by Steve D.

John,

Very nice find. And a pair of them no less. Your set looks to be the Sylvania table/consolette model 31T304 "The Granada." The other, as you mentioned, is the Sylvania console model 31C606 "The Saratoga." I believe Sylvania only produced the two models starting in 1957. Both were available in Mahogany and Blonde Korina finishes. The control layout above the screen would suggest this is a Sylvania designed chassis.

-Steve D.

If that's the case, then the back cover on mine must not be its original. The tag attached to the back bears "31C606M" as the Model number. I guess now in addition to a replacement 21AXP22, I'll have to find an original 31T304 back.

Originally Posted by John Folsom

Very interesting set, what a great score! Is this a Sylvania design, or a RCA clone chassis?

It's an original Sylvania design, and quite a primitive one in comparison to most other color sets of the same year. Sylvania used a passive HV shunt regulation device on this chassis when I seem to recall that the active shunt regulator tube (6BK4) had been available for some time and had been used by RCA on all color designs since the CTC-4. The power switch and the channel selector use linear "lever" actuators. In fact, the channel selector operates the tuner in a "ratchet-like" manner. Pressing the spring-loaded lever to the right ratchets the channel selector incrementally (2 , 3 , 4, ..., 12, 13, 2) in only the forward direction.

When the 21AXP22 was connected to the CRT tester, it produced the telltale "neck fireworks" of a slow-leaker gone to air. The phosphor is undisturbed, though, so that tube might eventually become rebuildable. Does anyone know whether Hawk-Eye has achieved successful rebuilds of slow-leaker tubes since discovering the VacuSeal product?

[Steve D.]

"If that's the case, then the back cover on mine must not be its original. The tag attached to the back bears "31C606M" as the Model number. I guess now in addition to a replacement 21AXP22, I'll have to find an original 31T304 back."

John,

Check the back on your friends console. Maybe the backs were swapped at one time.

-Steve D.

[jshorva65]

Originally Posted by Steve D.

"If that's the case, then the back cover on mine must not be its original. The tag attached to the back bears "31C606M" as the Model number. I guess now in addition to a replacement 21AXP22, I'll have to find an original 31T304 back."

John,

Check the back on your friends console. Maybe the backs were swapped at one time.

-Steve D.

Already checked. The label on my set shows 31C606M (the non-UHF version of the full-size console) and Todd's is marked 31C606MU (the UHF version)Since both sets were from the same retired Sylvania affiliate, my best guess is that the 31C304 may have suffered damage to its back cover at some time in its service history, requiring a replacement back. Since the backs of both cabinet styles are identical (except for the decal), and directly interchangeable mechanically, a surplus 31C606M back may have been installed in its place.

[jshorva65]

Here's one I scored some time ago from the attic of a now-defunct parts distributor in Youngstown. It's a Philco 16M91 chassis, which looks to me to be a licensed clone of an RCA CTC-20. The Sams is in Set 835 and the one for the RCA is in 837, and they're very similar. I set this one aside because the base had been detached from the 21FJP22 and the tube tested on the weak side when I connected my Heathkit tester to it with the "universal leads" adaptor. I recently pulled it out of the corner where it had been tucked away, though, in hopes of either tracking down an affordably-priced replacement 21FJP22 or that "waking up" the one in the set might be feasible as a temporary fix until I can fit the cost of a rebuild into my budget. Besides the detached CRT base, the 6JE6 was missing from its socket. Cosmetically, the set is in pretty good shape, so I'm revisiting the possibility of getting it going by the end of the summer.

I had planned to substitute a known-good spare 21FJP22 after its cataract surgery, but it was determined after the surgery that the safety glass from that tube had so many scratches that it was unusable. The delaminated tube will be substituted into the Sylvania set from my earlier post instead, just as Todd's similar Sylvania had been retrofitted with a 21FBP22 when its original 21AXP22 failed.

Later this week, Jamie and I are planning a "road trip" to pick up three Zenith roundie sets and some other items that I arranged to buy from someone in NY. Two are in cosmetically "Good" condition, the third is "Fair" cosmetically. None of them are working at the moment, but the plan is to salvage parts from any that don't seem to be likely candidates for restoration due to, for example, a faux-finish cabinet in rough condition and transplant those parts to save the other two and perhaps transplant a 95-2263 injection coil into my 24MC32 whose coil is broken (mentioned in another thread).

Here are some photos of the Philco.

[zenithfan1]

Those are some very nice sets John, It looks like you have some rare birds including the Dumont ETF score. Good work! Too bad all the old pictures are gone, this thread would be awesome to look at.

[Steve D.]

John,

Nice looking Philco. I like the clean contempory lines. The 1966 Philco is close, but not an exact clone of the RCA CTC-20 chassis. The chassis in the Philco has a different layout and utilizes several different tube types in various circuits. Not sure if Philco took the basic RCA CTC-20 and redesigned it to their own specs. From the look of the similar front RCA knobs, it may have been built for Philco by RCA.

-Steve D.

[ohohyodafarted]

Originally Posted by jshorva65

Does anyone know whether Hawk-Eye has achieved successful rebuilds of slow-leaker tubes since discovering the VacuSeal product?

Not Yet!

John Folsom and I are still in the process of working on the 15G project, and if and when we have a success with a non-leaker, we will then attempt to seal a leaker. If we are successful, then the process might be tried on 21AX leakers also.

Hawkeye does not do independent experimentation. If you want to try and experiment, then you plunk down your money and give it a try. So far nobody has put up the money for any 21AX experiments, and John and I are only into funding our own research on the 15GP22.(many thousands down the toilet at this point, but we know a lot of things that will not work) So if you have some money to throw away, feel free to join the party and experiment with your money and your dud. Scotty will be happy to try it FOR A PRICE. Last I heard a 21ax rebuild was $650 You would be better off looking for a 21ax dud under vacuum and then spending the money on a rebuild of that dud.

Good Luck!
Bob

[jshorva65]

We're in upstate NY this weekend. The three Zenith roundie sets I mentioned before turned out to be in pretty rough cosmetic condition, but complete. I bought them despite that the faux finishes were in worse shape than I had hoped, though. All three sets' CRTs are apparently still under vacuum, so some potentially usable bottles are always good to have, cabinets are structurally sound despite the worn finishes, and the sets will at least make good parts donors. Also among the score were two TIC model 1200A "Wobbulator" production-line Sweep/Marker generators, excellent for aligning Mallory Inductuners as used in Dumont B/W sets. Pushbutton presets for all channels and markers make them a snap to use, after I find time and documentation to get them recapped and calibrated. Also among the items I scored was a good used 21GVP22 "pull" CRT. The best item of this score, though (drumroll please) was a NOS/NIB Philco 21FJP22A!!! That alone was worth the price of the lot and the five-hour drive for pickup!

More info and pics later.