rca roundie combo

[Charlie]

okay guys... let's just both have a beer and get back to our soldering guns. No more needs to be said here.

[DaveWM]

yea that was real classy

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by DaveWM

yea that was real classy

and u were being extremely over the top abrasive and rude. Despite the fact that you were probably right.

[sampson159]

i myself,could never see recapping the entire chassis.but joe has boundless energy plus lots of caps to use!go for it joe.i never had that much drive to recap the entire set.i think you will be just fine.while you are doing this,you are learning.we all could use for knowledge,even us old timers!

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by DaveWM

not of the deep end what ever that means just frustrated when I try to tell newbs how to do things and it get ignored, no prob have fun

in case you missed how to do things mean this

recapping the whole chassis is a big waste time and likely to create problems.

Most caps on the set from that era will be fine.

The correct procedure is to check to see if it works as is (keeping an eye on the power supply caps). If that ok and you feel the need you can change the cans, although they have a good chance of being ok. a vintage cap tester would help in that analysis, the thing you got will not.

After the check out IF there are problems you can use a vintage cap tester and with some understanding of how things work you can quickly isolate the area, check the cap, replace and be done without needless work.


and you dont need to learn a lot if a problem surfaces, that's why you come here. Now if you replace every cap in the set and then come here with a problem... well it becomes much more difficult to help you.

Your acting as if u told me not to recap the set a week ago and i went and di it anyway.
I'm learning. And then u jump on my shit over work i have already done. Then tell me i'm ignoring you.

I'll take your advice, but really, i didn't ask for your advice, and quite frankly with your attitude, don;t need to hear a word from you.

[sampson159]

gentlemen,relax!takes a lot of energy to do a full recap.your a better man than i,joe.dave is an allright guy and is concerned your project.he actually cares about this operation.good man.i applaud your drive and determination and i applaud daves advice and willingness to share his knowledge.having said this,both of you can tell me to f--k off!

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by sampson159

gentlemen,relax!takes a lot of energy to do a full recap.your a better man than i,joe.dave is an allright guy and is concerned your project.he actually cares about this operation.good man.i applaud your drive and determination and i applaud daves advice and willingness to share his knowledge.having said this,both of you can tell me to f--k off!

well at least if i screw this up, u got that extra chassis. Then I'll tell that guy from fla that thanks to my extreme skills my recap bought the set back to life.

But don't tell him ok.

[Username1]

I am in the camp of not changing every last capacitor in tv's and old radios.... As a early tv tech this is what I can say about caps.... Old paper/foil & Wax caps were the best of the time.... High voltage placed across two large rolls of foil insulated by an oily wax paper will eventually break down, dry out, and allow current to flow from one layer of foil to the next..... Problem for testing is that current may only flow at 100Volts or more..... 50 volts or more.... 200v or more..... Are they better now.... In some respects yes.... But circuits are not the same today..... Some design parameters are different, and what was common in 1966, may be a harder to find item today....

Now some caps like the big filter caps in the power supply have a nice large current supply available, so they may get hot, they may boil, and then explode..... They are the most common caps that will go bad, and most older ones made in 1959 or earlier should probably be changed for safety....

Other smaller caps can be fine, or may become leaky.... Some specific types, or brands may have a history of being bad..... Some companies may have had a habit of using lower quality stuff, like RCA, there is a lot written here about how a lot of zenith stuff outlasts rca's stuff in the cap, and picture tube departments....

Cap testing falls into two parts. Testing for value, and testing for breakdown at working, or rated working voltage. For testing at working voltage you need a tester like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heathkit-IT-...item4d108c603f

You need an old one, where the tester has the ability to put 300v across a cap rated at 250v and be sure it is not going to break down....

ESR testers are useful for power supply filter caps as well, and can tell if you are going to have a potential bad cap in the future.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Capacito...item258174ca27

Wikipedia has a little on the topic of esr's in caps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

Why not change all caps just to do it...? Caps have a lot of parameters that have to be matched for the circuit they are going into. For old radios and tv's temperature stability is important, high voltage rating too. Have you looked at all the factors to pick a good choice to replace every cap in your tv ? Are you that good an engineer to do that ? Are you that good at tv work not to make a mistake in replacing them ? Are you sure the new cap will not immediately introduce a problem you have not already got that will be almost impossible to find because you "know that new cap is good"? Are you replacing all the caps while the tv or radio has a problem you have not fixed first.... ? This is a sure way to give yourself your original problem plus new ones.... Look at all the problem threads here that begin with "I got this picture rolling problem after recapping my set...."

There are lots of notes here about known bad cap types, and caps used in specific circuit areas that should be changed, others are most likely best left alone....

[Username1]

There was a basic capacitor test that use to be done with an ohm meter..... The old type, analog non digital type. If you put the probes across the cap, the meter needle would jump up part or full scale, then go back towards infinity...... Then you do it again after waiting a half a minute, if the cap has little to no leakage the meter should not jump up quite as high, presuming the good cap did not loose much of its charge.... Generally a very leaky or shorted cap was a little easier to spot that way. Older analog meters had much less resistance than newer digital meters and the cap actually used a little current to charge, good for electrolytic caps..... You don't get that with the digital meters.....

Digital meters that test caps for value do it by checking to see how fast the plates charge, that corresponds to a value, there are other ways too, but this is done at low voltages, and low currents.... And will not show faults, just values.

[Username1]

Originally Posted by technicolor

an update:.


Have the chassis out and going through it thoroughly, all three wax caps in this set were bad. And so far all three electrolytics were bad. Surprisingly, the one e cap, had a reading of 80uf, instead of the marked 50uf. I would assume when they got older they would drift lower.

My capitance meter is well worth the $16 i paid for it. Started yesterday checking resistors. ONmy digital multimeter, one reads 1, all all settings for ohms, does that mean it's shorted?

On testing caps.... A capacitor gets is value based on how long it takes a steady current source to charge the two opposing plated on the cap.. Larger plate area would give a larger value..... Given that, while a carbon resistor, or wire resistor can change value up or down, I don't think anyone has ever seen a 50uf cap change to a 80uf cap. (for this value to actually happen, someone would have to add foil to each of the two plates...) As a cap dries out it can change resistance, or "open" lowering value..... But increasing value I pretty much think is impossible.... In this case, knowing how caps of that size are made, and how they behave, and in this specific case, knowing the test instrument most likely cost less than the replacement cap. I would say that meter was at fault. An easy way to check your test equipment it to test it against a few components that are known good, at the extremes, and center of what the meter is known to be able to test. 100uf to 30pf for example. use 3 caps at those ends, and one in the middle.

In each case while testing anything, there is some "expectation" of what you may get, outside of that, you have to wonder about readings you get on cheap testers...... Any testers for that matter....

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by Username1

I am in the camp of not changing every last capacitor in tv's and old radios.... As a early tv tech this is what I can say about caps.... Old paper/foil & Wax caps were the best of the time.... High voltage placed across two large rolls of foil insulated by an oily wax paper will eventually break down, dry out, and allow current to flow from one layer of foil to the next..... Problem for testing is that current may only flow at 100Volts or more..... 50 volts or more.... 200v or more..... Are they better now.... In some respects yes.... But circuits are not the same today..... Some design parameters are different, and what was common in 1966, may be a harder to find item today....

Now some caps like the big filter caps in the power supply have a nice large current supply available, so they may get hot, they may boil, and then explode..... They are the most common caps that will go bad, and most older ones made in 1959 or earlier should probably be changed for safety....

Other smaller caps can be fine, or may become leaky.... Some specific types, or brands may have a history of being bad..... Some companies may have had a habit of using lower quality stuff, like RCA, there is a lot written here about how a lot of zenith stuff outlasts rca's stuff in the cap, and picture tube departments....

Cap testing falls into two parts. Testing for value, and testing for breakdown at working, or rated working voltage. For testing at working voltage you need a tester like this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heathkit-IT-...item4d108c603f

You need an old one, where the tester has the ability to put 300v across a cap rated at 250v and be sure it is not going to break down....

ESR testers are useful for power supply filter caps as well, and can tell if you are going to have a potential bad cap in the future.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Capacito...item258174ca27

Wikipedia has a little on the topic of esr's in caps...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

Why not change all caps just to do it...? Caps have a lot of parameters that have to be matched for the circuit they are going into. For old radios and tv's temperature stability is important, high voltage rating too. Have you looked at all the factors to pick a good choice to replace every cap in your tv ? Are you that good an engineer to do that ? Are you that good at tv work not to make a mistake in replacing them ? Are you sure the new cap will not immediately introduce a problem you have not already got that will be almost impossible to find because you "know that new cap is good"? Are you replacing all the caps while the tv or radio has a problem you have not fixed first.... ? This is a sure way to give yourself your original problem plus new ones.... Look at all the problem threads here that begin with "I got this picture rolling problem after recapping my set...."

There are lots of notes here about known bad cap types, and caps used in specific circuit areas that should be changed, others are most likely best left alone....

squirrel, i wish somebody had told me that a few weeks ago.

[Username1]

I know this is not the first time I wrote about not changing every last cap in a post, and in one where you were also in on the conversation......

Anyway live and learn......

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by Username1

I know this is not the first time I wrote about not changing every last cap in a post, and in one where you were also in on the conversation......

Anyway live and learn......

Don't recall that at all. But feel free to continue with the admonishment.

[Username1]

Satellite boy; I'm happy for all the new-bees that begin this hobby. for each of you that starts, it means it will continue. I don't want to see anyone do things that are unnecessary, or will cause them more trouble. For the amount of time you have been in this, you have done and tackled much more than I have at that time of involvement.

Many times you have said "I don't have the time to become a tv repairman to get this stuff done" And I have said "this is the hobby you chose" At times you need to just slow down a little, and learn a little more before you jump into doing something that may cause you some problems that can be avoided. I think your enthusiasm is great! I don't want to see you discouraged trying to fix something because a lot of people just say "recap it all" and you end up with more problems. I'm not against you at all.

I think your collection is also fantastic, and if you tackle only a few small things one at a time, you will have a full line of some great sets...

[technicolor]

Originally Posted by Username1

Satellite boy; I'm happy for all the new-bees that begin this hobby. for each of you that starts, it means it will continue. I don't want to see anyone do things that are unnecessary, or will cause them more trouble. For the amount of time you have been in this, you have done and tackled much more than I have at that time of involvement.

Many times you have said "I don't have the time to become a tv repairman to get this stuff done" And I have said "this is the hobby you chose" At times you need to just slow down a little, and learn a little more before you jump into doing something that may cause you some problems that can be avoided. I think your enthusiasm is great! I don't want to see you discouraged trying to fix something because a lot of people just say "recap it all" and you end up with more problems. I'm not against you at all.

I think your collection is also fantastic, and if you tackle only a few small things one at a time, you will have a full line of some great sets...

I'm learning as i go along, but apparently not fast enough. 8 weeks ago? I recapped a set with electrolytics backwards. How's that for stupid?

As far as future projects, i now know that film caps to not need to be replaced en masse. I'll use that info in the future.

But the problem with most of u is, u expect noobs to learn in 2 months what may in some cases have taken u years.


and another thing, where are there stickies on this board talking about tv repair 101. Instead of assuming people now how to read a schematic.


But not to worry. I'm a quick learner, I learned fta satellite tech and installations on my own in one year. I can tell you right now, the two fta satellite dealers/installers in my state don't know half of what i know. And the quality of their installations are terrible.

Ron has an extra working chassis for the rca roundie combo, if it doesn;t work i'm covered.