Dinah Shore show Nov 9, 1958

[Phil Nelson]

I suspect that Steve's right. Their customer list is big kahunas like PBS, The Tonight Show, and the like. Small fry like you and me probably aren't worth their time, streaming or not.

Also, these guys are more like middlemen. They market and restore content, but they don't own it. Here's a piece of fine print from one of their pages:

"Research Video Inc. is an authorized agency with exclusive represenation rights for over 100 television programs, TV series, private film collections and video footage archives on behalf of the official copyright holders and original producers."

So, if you want DVDs of all the old Flip Wilson shows, you can hire them as an agent to negotiate with the rights owners, but they can't just toss all that content up on Amazon or Youtube.

Phil Nelson

[Eric H]

I know what you're saying Phil and it may be true that the market is small for this, however someone paid to have the tape restored so either they did it solely to save some history or else they thought there was a market for it.

There are (were?) lots of small DVD companies putting out all sorts of obscure shows from the 40's and the 50's, I think a DVD set of the oldest surviving Videotapes would sell well enough to justify the cost. If nothing else one of the Cable channels could run them, Turner Classics for example.
Perhaps they are tangled up in copyright issues, that happens a lot, The Batman TV show from the 60's is a good example, it may never come out due to all the royalty issues.

[Phil Nelson]

My son has had some dealings with tiny companies that put out obscure DVDs, and learned that copyrights get extra messy when a movie or show includes a musical number.

To you and me, it's Dinah singing a song. But her production company probably paid the composer a royalty for that performance in a single broadcast. Fine, but did their permission from the songwriter also include the right to sell reproductions of the performance in any medium for perpetuity? If not, does a valid copyright still exist for that song, and in that case, who the heck owns the song rights and what is their price for us to re-use it?

Now, imagine a full episode of a variety show with a couple of celebrity guests and, say, three or four musical numbers by different composers. Yech, I'm getting a headache already -- enough with this crummy DVD business

Phil Nelson

[oldtvman]

Regardless of what their goals are the fact remains that this is an amazing example of how good some of the early color stuff really was. Combine this with the fact that the early color sets I have and the ones I saw back in the day supports my theory that the complaints about early color may have been overly stated. Keep in mind when I did service I would walk into people homes and see color pictures you might find in horror shows. I think someone with a properly adjusted set in good working condition would produce an amazing color image.

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Phil Nelson

I suspect that Steve's right. Their customer list is big kahunas like PBS, The Tonight Show, and the like. Small fry like you and me probably aren't worth their time, streaming or not.

Also, these guys are more like middlemen. They market and restore content, but they don't own it. Here's a piece of fine print from one of their pages:

"Research Video Inc. is an authorized agency with exclusive representation rights for over 100 television programs, TV series, private film collections and video footage archives on behalf of the official copyright holders and original producers."

So, if you want DVDs of all the old Flip Wilson shows, you can hire them as an agent to negotiate with the rights owners, but they can't just toss all that content up on Amazon or Youtube.

Phil Nelson

It's even more complicated than that. The musicians in the orchestra would all have to be paid again. Renegotiated with the union. Each of the guest stars' estates would have to be paid again, royalty fees would have to be worked out with legal, etc.

I'm tellin' ya, a nightmare. I had a long meeting with the late Andy Williams about putting 40 of his best shows out on DVD in 2000, complete, commercials, NBC peacock, everything. Andy signed off on the deal. The nightmare of clearances worked out to the sad realization that we would have lost money on each and every DVD sold. Just can't be done..

[Sandy G]

That's pretty sad. I thoughtmost of this stuff went to public domain after X number of years...There's a good probability that a lot of this stuff will NEVER get seen again, I'd imagine.

[robatino]

Originally Posted by Sandy G

That's pretty sad. I thoughtmost of this stuff went to public domain after X number of years...There's a good probability that a lot of this stuff will NEVER get seen again, I'd imagine.

For all practical purposes nothing goes to the public domain anymore. Whenever X is approached, legislation is passed to increase it. Google for "Copyright Term Extension Act" and "Eldred v. Ashcroft".

Edit: http://blogs.hbr.org/cs/2012/12/how_...nnovation.html also discusses this - see the "Intellectual Property" section.

[Sandy G]

While I fully understand & support the artists/parties all being properly compensated on things like this, it looks like SOMETHING could be worked out in cases like this...

[Glenz75]

Far out that picture quality is pretty amazing! Would love to see it uncompressed in its real form. Would be something.

[colorfixer]

OK then, mute the audio so that the license-able content is removed, put black boxes and blurs around the orchestra's faces, and lets enjoy the living color!

[Phil Nelson]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman

It's even more complicated than that.

Out of curiosity, I emailed that company and later had a chat with a guy who works there. The copyright issues are truly daunting. The audience for such material is very limited and the cost of production dwarfs the return. They provided the restored video for a special on Dinah Shore, which aired on PBS (and "tanked," to use his term).

VHS copies of that show, with some bonus material, are still available on the used market:

http://www.amazon.com/MWAH-Best-Dina...dp/B0015A07MK/

This is later material than the clip mentioned at the beginning of this thread, of course.

Phil Nelson

[Sandy G]

There are unfortunately, just not enuff of us "Mad Monks" to warrant getting all the clearances... And if one bunch thought they were losing 15 cents worth of residuals...Oh, Hell !....Think of ALL those starving musicians we'd be puttin' in the Poor House..Like I said, I DON'T wanna deprive anyone of their just compensation, but, some shark-ass lawyer, OTOH....

[Steve Hoffman]

That's show biz. I used to scream and cry about it (especially after spending hours trying to get one thing cleared) but now I don't even grunt. Just stupid greed. Such is life.

[NewVista]

The only answer unfortunately (or fortunately) is web piracy. They either get less than what they want
or nothing, their choice.

[barnaby1]

Originally Posted by oldtvman

i happen to run accross the video from the dinah shore show on nbc date nov 9 1958. The color is amazing on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dutkl_z9474

i am the guy who pushed the record button on that videotape machine, that recorded that show . It was an rca trt-1 2" machine at nbc burbank. Don't know where you found the tape. But, thanks it brings back memories of my youth. I was 29.

Barnaby 1