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  #16  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:23 PM
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Marco Bacigalupo
 
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On my schematics is written that the unit works with a 4,2 battery. Probably they were mercury battery or similar, if not they would be 4,5 Volts. For the 14 buttons type they wrote 6,5 Volts... Strange voltage for a battery...
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  #17  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:27 PM
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It is supposed to be 4.2V. One of the remotes I have still had the old 4.2V mercury battery in it. But with 4.5 volts my remote works fine.
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:33 PM
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On my schematics is written that that unit use a 4.2 Volts battery. Strange voltage for a normal battery. Instead the unit of the Worthington used a 6.5 Volts battery. Probably they were mercury battery that are not longer manufactured.
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2013, 05:39 PM
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I'm sorry, I wrote two times the same post because I cannot see it.
However yes, I think that 4.5 or 4.2 is not a great difference. I hope that these battery have a longer lifetime.
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  #20  
Old 03-26-2013, 07:39 PM
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Wonder how a CTC-7 made its way to Italy ?!? I never fully understood WHY the western European countries took SO long to introduce color...Its not like they were lacking in electrical/electronic engineering talent.... Anyhow, Welcome To VK !
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  #21  
Old 03-26-2013, 07:57 PM
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Not to mention it would not work in Italy unless some warped-mind collector knew what to do.
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2013, 02:50 AM
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For you Sandy and Dave, I can say that in Europe the color television was late for a lot of reasons. In the US the thing went ahead better because some engineers, and David Sarnoff too, realized how much it could be important. Then in USA the people could work without to think at the rebuilding, that in Europe was essential after the 2nd ww because of the stupidity and maliciousness of Hitler, and here from us, Mussolini too. In Italy the b&w tv broadcasting started in 1954, when in the US started the color tv. In Europe many engineers worked to make the color television a bit better of the NTSC system, and in the first years of the sixties, the PAL system came out. It worked very well and has not trouble due to the phase of color. In fact our tv sets (here in Italy where the PAL system was used) had not the tint control, because it wasn't necessary. But in France, they didn't want to use a system that the Germany worked out, so they studied another system, the SECAM, that is quite an absurd system. So, for absurd politic problems, we were fixed to wait some enlightenment... A lot of company had huge economic problems, because they couldn't start the production chains that were ready with the PAL system. In Europe the color television started after the middle of the sixties, and in Italy (where since 1968-70 we made test transmissions with the PAL system) we finally achieved to the color television in 1977.
I was always fascinated by the electronic devices since I was a baby, but here the people never saw a "roundie" color tv set. I saw the first time one of these tv set in a american film when I already had the color television at the age of 20-25 years (I was born in 1964). Finally, with computer and internet, I was able to study all the story of the color television, and five years ago I bought a wonderful Zenith Parkhurst 5231U roundie on ebay. A very kind woman in the States sold it to me, in those years I didn't know how to manage the shipment and this very kind person worked a lot for arranging everything. When this tv set arrived in Italy, I could see only some films on DVD because the DVD players have the double system NTSC/PAL and I built a suitable RF modulator, but the broadcasting was only with the PAL system and i couldn't use the tv set. Now, with the digital system, every decoder has the double system and I do have no problems. However I'm a collector... so I'm always looking for "new" tv sets. The RCA sets are now the right piece that is missing in my collection, and the Worthington is all along my fovourite. Bye, Marco.

Last edited by radiomec; 03-27-2013 at 05:54 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:08 AM
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Marco,

It is very pleasing to know that someone your age has an interest in the history of early color television that you do. I applaud your efforts.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2013, 02:31 AM
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Yes, it's pleasing to know that some people are interested to our passions and bring ahead the story of the electronic technology. The same thing has happened to me too. Last year I knew a guy, that collects vintage television sets and has the hearth's desire to learn all these things, that I thought could interest only to my strange mind...
However for greater precision, that wich I said yesterday about the Italian people that didn't know the old "roundie" tv sets, is not totally true. Near Florence here in Italy, a very particular person, Mr. Montagni, imported a batch of new unsold Zenith tv sets. In the laboratory of his company, he modified the color circuits and the accord frequency, for making them suitable for our tv system and PAL color. In fact, aside the "flip-flop electronic switch of the color phase, the PAL system is very similar to the NTSC. Only the carrier frequencies are different. Here we have the intercarrier audio frequency at 5.5 MHz instead of the 4.5 MHz of the USA system, and the color carrier at 4.43 MHz instead of 3.58 MHz. The same type of modulation are used and the color is almost alike until the electronic PAL switch. Instead the french SECAM is based on a complicated system and the number of lines changes depending on the wave band. Furthermore the audio signal is modulated in AM and the video polarity is positive instead of our negative modulation.
Mr. Montagni sold a lot of these Zenith tv sets in the first years of the seventies, when in Italy the color tv broadcasting there wasn't, for receiving some color broadcasting televisions coming from Switzerland and France, repeating their transmissions and converting them in PAL system. Some people, in Tuscany, maybe remember those "strange" tv sets with a roundie cathode ray tube.
Unfortunately, a lot of these tv sets still wrapped, were destroyed because unsold. It's a really shame! They were still new!

Last edited by radiomec; 03-28-2013 at 03:00 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2013, 09:40 AM
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Welcome, Marco!

I, too, am a recent new member to Videokarma. I have been interested and involved in radio and television electronics, since I can remember, I was born in June 1960, and started my career as a TV Repairman, in the late 1970's. That ended for me in the mid 80's, as the economy here turned bad, and sets began to become more disposable. That is a very nice Zenith you have pictured there, as your Avatar! I have one that looks identical, but is in a very nice blonde cabinet, with Space Command 600 Remote Control! I have two other roundie's, a 1961 RCA, and a 1962 Philco. I would like to find out the Model Name for my Zenith, I'll have to post the model number, and see if anyone has some early sales literature on the Zenith models. The chassis in mine is a 25MC43. There are photos of some of my sets in my photo album, in my member information "spot." Anyway, best wishes in your search for a Worlington!
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2013, 12:23 PM
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Easiest way to display PAL:
Convert to Vid/Aud In and make a PAL Ident detector (Flip Flop running @ H to identify alternate PAL lines). Then use this 1/2H trigger to mute "PAL" lines and display only the "NTSC" lines (around 300 lines) will look good .
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2013, 02:14 PM
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BigDavesTv, very nice your tv sets! Really interesting! Your Zenith set is so similar to mine! I have a lot of Zenith ads, if you tell me the model number I think that I could find the right ad.
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  #28  
Old 03-28-2013, 04:10 PM
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NewVista, for converting a color PAL signal in NTSC, it needs to turn upside down the color signal of the even lines and to let unchanged the odd lines, with a flip flop as you said. For convert a NTSC tv set in a PAL one, it can be useful to use last IF stage of the color signal connected directly to the flip-flop. Of course the accord of the color IF transformers and the video IF must be changed and also the quartz must be substituted with a 4.43 MHz one. Furthermore the PAL tv sets have a color delay line that delays the color signal for the time of one line and then the delayed signal is added together the normal one. Another problem is the horizontal frequency at 15625 Hz instead of 15750 and the vertical frequency at 50 Hz instead of 60 Hz, also if normally all the tv sets can be adjusted with these frequencies. However this is not longer important to make it, because digital decoders make this conversion without problems. So to use US tv sets here in Italy is quite simply. We have to had only an RF modulator with the audio intercarrier frequency at 4.5 MHz.

Last edited by radiomec; 03-28-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2013, 06:27 AM
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Digital conversion to NTSC-3.58 like with a Plextor ConvertX would be easier then employ an Nth American standard modulator as you say.

Last edited by NewVista; 03-29-2013 at 06:30 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2013, 09:32 AM
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Yes I understand, but I was telling about the system that was used from the italian importer of those Zenith tv sets in the first seventies. Today no device is longer necessary because whatever digital decoder or DVD player has the video output available with NTSC or PAL system. A RF modulator with 4.5 MHz intercarrier frequency is necessary for the US TV set, because if you don't want modify the cicuits, you only can connect them with the antenna RF input.

Last edited by radiomec; 03-30-2013 at 09:36 AM.
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