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  #1  
Old 10-25-2009, 02:51 PM
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NTSC Pennant?

Does anyone have a nice high-res version of the NTSC pennant? This is a small version of an image that I scanned from an old TV book. There are problems with colors bleeding through from the other side of the page, etc. I have seen the little image at Ed Reitan's website, but that's not what I'm looking for as a screen background.

Phil Nelson
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File Type: jpg NTSCPennant.jpg (65.2 KB, 157 views)
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2009, 08:33 PM
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The only other place I've seen this is on the cover of the Jan 54 IRE Proceedings, and every copy I know of has been loved to death - in much worse condition than what you have. Sorry I can't help - good luck.
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:40 PM
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I wonder if it was ever meant to be used as a televised image. May just have been a print illustration. I suppose one could photoshop the correct hues and make a DVD, but what would be a correct/proper orange?
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:37 PM
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how's this?

Test image: note +/- I bars and +/- Q bars in upper left (Y, I, Q all full bandwidth)


Q turned off (transmitter side, I filtered at to 1.5 Mhz bandwidth):


I turned off (transmitter side, Q filtered to 0.5 Mhz bandwidth):


Encoded and decoded with I/Q demods, subcarrier notch filter in Y channel, shows: cross color in awning; Q smear on green-magenta edge; subcarrier dots on color bar edges.


NOTE: computer simulation was simplified by making the color subcarrier phase coherent with the pixel placement in these images, resulting in the slight aspect ratio distortion seen here.

Last edited by old_tv_nut; 10-26-2009 at 10:45 PM. Reason: added info on filtering / processing
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:24 AM
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Interesting! John
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Old 10-27-2009, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis View Post
May just have been a print illustration.
That seems likely. The plate in this book just reproduces the IRE illustration, which certainly isn't in TV format.

I think I have seen a recommendation from you for this book, in fact -- Basic Television by Bernard Grob.

I have been using this as a computer desktop background and thought someone might happen to have a better version. The scan I made looks kinda fuzzed when blown up to 1440 x 900 resolution. Still jolly, though.

Phil
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post
how's this?
Oops! (slaps forehead w/left hand) I shoulda knowed!


+I = orange
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_tv_nut View Post

Encoded and decoded with I/Q demods, subcarrier notch filter in Y channel, shows: cross color in awning....
Cool! I had not noticed cross color in the awning before your pointing it out. Neat simulation.

Pete

Last edited by Pete Deksnis; 10-27-2009 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Nelson View Post
That seems likely. The plate in this book just reproduces the IRE illustration, which certainly isn't in TV format.

I think I have seen a recommendation from you for this book, in fact -- Basic Television by Bernard Grob.

I have been using this as a computer desktop background and thought someone might happen to have a better version. The scan I made looks kinda fuzzed when blown up to 1440 x 900 resolution. Still jolly, though.

Phil
The printers must still have been setting up the press when they printed my color plate as it is not as good as the image you posted. Your color is more accurate -- especially yellow -- and so is your registration. Like to get my hands on the original color separations. It'd be like Chuck Pharis acquiring the original RCA Indian Head artwork.

Pete
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2009, 03:08 PM
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Here's an enlarged (and slightly color-corrected) version of the original image that was posted above... it could still be sharpened a bit, if that's your preference.

The size is now 1024 x 599.

Hope this is useful...

-Kevin
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File Type: jpg NTSC Pennant CORR LG.jpg (58.8 KB, 128 views)
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  #11  
Old 10-27-2009, 07:54 PM
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Cool. How did you do color correction? I'm a dolt when it comes to using Paintshop. I have the original scan (820K !) at http://antiqueradio.org/art/temp/NTSCBackground.jpg .

Phil
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2009, 02:30 AM
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Wow-- thanks for supplying the original scan, Phil!

I've similarly color corrected the original (as well as did a quick bit of clean-up to even out the lighter blue on the right, and get rid of a few dark spots and image flaws), and reduced it to the same 1024 x 599 size. The reduction route gives much nicer results than blowing up a small image, since the final picture retains a lot of the texture of the original, which my blow-up wouldn't have had, even if it were sharpened.

Looks decent enough, I'd say...

-Kevin
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File Type: jpg NTSC Pennant from Original Scan CORR 1024_599.jpg (73.6 KB, 95 views)
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2009, 11:40 AM
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That's much better. It's already on my desktop. Thanks!

Phil
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  #14  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:32 AM
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Did a little photoshopping

And the digital version as well
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File Type: jpg ATSCPennant.jpg (81.7 KB, 256 views)
File Type: jpg NTSCPennantA.jpg (82.1 KB, 252 views)
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2009, 12:12 AM
W.B. W.B. is offline
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It seems, based on the colors as registered in this JPEG file, that 205° would be the RGB position for -I, 24° for +I, 275° for +Q and 95° for -Q, would that sound correct? (Being that RGB values are different from the phase positions in video language.) I had done my own research of position values in Photoshop and Corel Photo-Paint 11, and had come up with:
- 204° for -I
- 24° for +I
- 272° for +Q
- 92° for -Q
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