Another car questions + opinions

[Telecolor 3007]

Today's "Mercedes" are just a pice of ugliness. No style, just made for people who just want to impress with the name of the brand.
Very old models at least if they whreren't in the had the looks, they had the reability of the brand.
The W123 (a.k.a "Cobra" in Romania) had a certain look (not very beatiful, bot not ugly), but for sure it was good car worth of the brand's name.
In Bucharest there are 2 x 380SL. Both automatic transimision. In terms of look... not only does they do have the appeal, but the overpass any of today's model.
I'm not such a big fan of the brand, but the very old models from them for sure where good. And W123 was a very wade range of cars. Today's cars don't seem so versatile in terms of options.

U.S.A. cars had one problem I think: to big engines. I agree that outside densly populated areas, in U.S.A. (or Canada or even Mexico) you can't go with small engine cars like in Europe. So a 3-4 liters (maybe 5 if you want a really big car or a pick-up truck) is needed, but when you put as a standard a 5-6 liters engine is arelady too much in the late '60's.
But do you have any ideea, what where the most relaible U.S.A brands up to the '50's?
You needed oil change only because you migh had leaks or also because the qualty of the oil wasn't so good back then - plain mineral oil, no aditives.
If you want to run a classic car I've heard that you must be careful, at least here in Europe, because they put Ethanol on it and very old cars don't like it.

Here is something to read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-a...c_transmission

And let's not forget about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTZeP5f20PA

http://hudsonterraplane.com/tech/193...ndTechInfo.pdf

[Sandy G]

I've heard of-but never experienced-ethanol is sposed to dissolve certain types of gaskets. As far as REALLY awful cars, there aren't too many anymore-But, on the other hand, there aren't too many that stand away from the crowd as REALLY Great. In America, we have SO many rules & regulations that in practicality, virtually ALL cars are reasonably safe, don't pollute too much, get DECENT gas mileage, so on & so forth, but its also why they are all so depressingly ALIKE..

[Telecolor 3007]

When I was talking about too big engines I was talking about the '60's.
Talking about stuff that's alike, today's "Cadillac" 's don't have any appeal...

[Sandy G]

Yeah....The last Caddy my family had/has is the one I have now, a '73 Fleetwood Brougham. There is really nothing special or noteworthy about it, except its SIZE & weight. It has the 2nd longest wheelbase of any car made in America, 133" Only the Caddy Fleetwood 75 limo & 9 passenger sedan had longer ones, at 149". I think its empty weight is a svelte 4999 LBS., & its overall length is 233". A Smart car fits comfortably in the length between the trailing edge of its rear door, & the end of its rear bumper. I think its motor is 472 cubic inches, or right at 7.8 or so liters. Cars in that era were very throttled back by emission controls, I think Old Huldy can only make something like 275 hp. But, what it LOVES to do is get on the Interstate-Our motorways in America-turn on the Cruise control, put it on 70 MPH, put the Climate control on 70 degrees, turn on a Seventies radio station, adjust the seat to your liking, drape your hand over the steering wheel, sit back & let the Big Dawg Eat up the miles... Omaha ? No Problem, Boss-We'll be there by suppertime... Might have to stop & fill the tank up a time or 2-But you'll need to stop & stretch your legs & Hit the Head by then anyway..

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

I wonder how it will be for me to drive a car with no power steering.

Don't worry. Drive the car for a month or so, and you'll get so buff that nobody will want to pick a fight with you. :P

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

U.S.A. cars had one problem I think: to big engines. I agree that outside densly populated areas, in U.S.A. (or Canada or even Mexico) you can't go with small engine cars like in Europe. So a 3-4 liters (maybe 5 if you want a really big car or a pick-up truck) is needed, but when you put as a standard a 5-6 liters engine is arelady too much in the late '60's.

Well, here's what happened. We Americans love to drive powerful cars. The 1960s was the the peak of performance, high compression engines, and no emissions testing. And once you have a powerful car, you never want to go back. But then, emission regulations came out, and all cars being carbureted, the manufacturers had no technology to keep up performance numbers (in the mid 60s, 1hp per cubic inch was very possible, so imagine ordinary cars with 300-400hp - something that wouldn't really happen again until the late 2000's), so cars got bogged down with emissions equipment, had to have very low compression, and had to be adjusted to run very lean, all meaning very little power per cubic inch. It actually made for very inefficient engines, because you still had a massive, HEAVY motor that could not make that much power, and yet it still had to carry its weight. Still, we wanted power. So the only option was to keep making big engines, even if they didn't come close to the old performance numbers (think 100-150 hp).

This kept up into the 70s and 80s, when imported cars started coming in, and back then, a lot of them were so small that they were not required to meet most emission regulations here (I'd imagine because our laws were written around large cars with big motors). So these cars like the VW Beetle and little Hondas, had an (unfair) advantage. They were much lighter and had smaller engines, but didn't need to meet most emissions stuff, and could keep up with the big cars that were just getting slower. American manufacturers changed things, made smaller cars to compete, and technology started getting better (computers, fuel injection). Now, we can get great power numbers from small engines.

Incidentally, my friend recently bought a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado. It has a 500 cubic inch motor. A massive 8.2 liters making a laughable 190hp (when it was new).

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

But do you have any ideea, what where the most relaible U.S.A brands up to the '50's?
You needed oil change only because you migh had leaks or also because the qualty of the oil wasn't so good back then - plain mineral oil, no aditives.
If you want to run a classic car I've heard that you must be careful, at least here in Europe, because they put Ethanol on it and very old cars don't like it.

Firstly, most American cars were reliable. By the time WW2 was over, most car makers here stopped advertising reliability, because it was just assumed. That, and making trucks and tanks for the war effort probably increased their quality control. Certain cars might have rusted sooner, but today, most old cars are generally considered much more reliable than anything modern. But I suppose that comes down to there being less things to break = less probability of failure.

Second, you still need oil changes often. I don't care what car it is, if it has an internal combustion engine, the oil WILL get contaminated. That's perfectly normal. This modern idea that new cars don't need oil changes very often is a lie perpetuated by governing bodies like the EPA (excuse me while I put on my tinfoil hat). They make laws that say manufacturers are not allowed to require oil changes very often (and transmission oil changes are not allowed at all), because they think oil changes pollute the environment (they don't - used oil is a commodity that gets bought and sold and either used for fuel or recycled into new oil [yes! that's a thing that happens now!]). And if the manufacturer does not comply, they get fined. So all the car makers smile and tell you that you only need an oil change every 15,000 miles (24,000km), and when your engine takes a shit, they wonder why.

Fact is, oil gets dirty. Could be the best synthetic oil in the world. It's dirty at 3000 miles, I promise you this.

Third, ethanol is completely harmless. The myth that it dissolves parts of the fuel system comes from the 1970s, when during the fuel crisis, a new alternative alcohol based fuel was introduced - M85. It was methanol, which is a very harsh solvent, much harsher than ethanol or gasoline (which is itself a very harsh solvent). People today remember the ...85 alcohol fuel and instantly equate it with E85 (ethanol) and the ~10% ethanol they put in ordinary gas. In fact, that 10% is actually helpful as it will capture a small amount of water, if it gets in the gas (ever wonder what's in a bottle of Heet fuel additive?) Also, it lowers the detonation temperature of the gasoline, which increases its octane number, and is actually really helpful for carbureted engines, especially ones with higher compression ratios.

Ethanol isn't even that harsh, not even compared to gasoline. Even so, let's assume for a moment that ethanol might harm a pre-1990s gasket or hose somewhere in an old car's fuel system. That part is at LEAST 30 years old already, you should be changing it anyway. Rubber hoses and gaskets are considered perishable.

The only other thing is that an old carbureted car might not be adjusted to run well on 10% ethanol fuel. Maybe. If it hasn't been adjusted since before the 1990s, I guess. Or whenever ethanol blended fuel was standardized in your area. That's nothing a screwdriver can't fix.


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Long post, sorry. Hope I've been helpful

[mr_rye89]

I've never had issues with 10% ethanol gas in my CARS, even carbureated ones. Now my lawn tractor with it's Briggs 18hp I/C twin on the other hand it reeks havoc.

Now that I read this tread, I think the miata with it's 1.8 liter 150hp 4 cylinder is due for an oil change......

[Telecolor 3007]

In Europe some producers are also saying that you don't need to change the oil, but it's about the oild from automatic geraboxes. Lifetime oil they say. Some say you still need to change it, other no. In Romania it's good to change oil because you know, it's Romania and you can't be sure of the qualty of products...
True, cars in the day where simpler. I want an classical preselector gerabox because it deosen't requiers vacumm or selenoids like other types of preselectors. I don't know if I'm able to start rolling a classical manual, but a classical preselector I think I can do very easy. I don't mind cars having some saftey features, but don't transform it into an space ship.
I think the import cars had also one other advantage: the adrees the public who wanted a small cheaper cars. Big powerful cars are good, but living in New York City, Boston or California will get you in nasty traffic; plus some people didn't had money for bigger cars. And American manufacturers quited for a time making small cars.

1976 "Cadillac". My 1st and only "Cadillac" ride. And 1st and only time that I've seen for real an 8 track cassette player working. And the only car that I feel as confortable as in a train... Europeanen cars are too small. In big cities and for short rides are nice, but for long rides if there are full it's nasty. And I'm not a tall guy. Darn, even in streetcars (trams in British English), trolleybuses and urban buses I have more space for my feet.

[Electronic M]

A lot of American cars 1980s and older were big and comfortable like caddies....all but the cheapest buyers tended to expect a big floaty car that they could comfortably take 5 hour drive for a weekend trip in.

You do get used to having a car with oomph. Part of the reason I don't like European cars (besides the generally drab styling of post WWII stuff) is most are small and under powered, and the ones that do have power are usually small too. Driving can be scary if you don't have power....try merging onto the highway in front of a semi with bad brakes in a gutless car that can't make highway speed in the distance an on ramp gives you to do so.... Small cars especially vintage ones tend to offer very little protection to occupants. .https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kRJdHkvIRYw
Add to that a lot of power and the illusion that a small light car is more nimble and drivers tend to do crazy things that get them in accidents.
Every centimeter of car between your seat and the car that hits you is that much more a buffer separating you from harm...
The full size American cars really did need the big engines to not be gigantic sluggs... putting the sedan and wagon engines in the smaller lighter 2 door cars is where one could argue the engines were excessive.

[Telecolor 3007]

Some Europeanen cars are not underpowered. But big, only a few.
I can't remember how big is G.A.Z. M21 Volga on the inside (ride one on twice ocasions - same car). It's not very big, but not too small either. But for here is considered a big car. It wasn't a good acceleration car, but the engine had a good torque. Fuel consumption was not low.
But a 4, maybe 5 litre engine was too small in the late '60's?

What I hate the fact that they don't make cars at that is easy to make some custom stuff, for eg the brake pedal on the right (manual gearbox), light dip on the floor and so on.
Some cars today don't have any longer a spare tire.

[MadMan]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

A lot of American cars 1980s and older were big and comfortable like caddies....all but the cheapest buyers tended to expect a big floaty car that they could comfortably take 5 hour drive for a weekend trip in.

That's another reason why Americans typically like large cars: comfort for hours. In most of Europe, the farthest place you'd want to drive is maybe an hour away. In America, everything is much more spread out. Many people routinely commute to work 1 hour, and an hour back. A weekend trip might be 6 hours or more, often with the family packed into the car. Being trapped in a little shitbox for 6 hours is no fun.

Love the crash test video. It's important to remember that old cars like that Cadillac are not very good by today's crash test standards, but that little Datsun it was up against was far, far worse by today's standards. It probably weighed about half the Caddy. Those little old cars that everyone praises for their fuel economy were deathtraps. There's a good reason that the smallest modern Honda still weighs about 4000lbs.

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

I think the import cars had also one other advantage: the adrees the public who wanted a small cheaper cars. Big powerful cars are good, but living in New York City, Boston or California will get you in nasty traffic; plus some people didn't had money for bigger cars. And American manufacturers quited for a time making small cars.

Yes, definitely. There will always be people that prefer a small car. Probably in 1970's America, that was an underserved market.

[bgadow]

[QUOTE=MadMan;3216744]Don't worry. Drive the car for a month or so, and you'll get so buff that nobody will want to pick a fight with you. :P

In the time I owned my International pickup I mostly drove it just 2-3 times a week; now, I'm a bean-pole. After a few months I noticed: for the first and only time in my life, I actually had muscles in my arms! My wife was quite impressed. They went away pretty quickly after I sold the truck. The other vehicles I have with manual steering really don't take that much muscle, even at low speeds.

Ethanol: I've had issues with older rubber fuel hose and with some rubber components in a 90's-era Holley 4 barrel. Easy enough to remedy. Certainly if you didn't drive the car much and the gas had to sit for months, you're asking for trouble. I drive mine too much for that to be a problem. We can get ethanol-free gas fairly easily around home, but it's expensive. I tried a tank in my old Ford and saw no difference at all: same power, same mileage, it started no better or worse. Invaluable for a lawn mower, though.

[Telecolor 3007]

Thank you for patiance with me. I sometimes very curios and insist on a question.
Doese worm and snail steering system helps a driver? In Romanian worm and snail is called "direcţie cu melc" ("steering with snail").

[Sandy G]

TC3007- Oh, no. Don't worry about it. Trust me, I think you've likely come to the Right Place to ask questions about American cars. While I don't think anyone here buys or sells cars for a living, I also am pretty sure we have quite a few "Petrolheads" in our midst who are only too happy to share our experiences w/you..

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Telecolor 3007

Some Europeanen cars are not underpowered. But big, only a few.
I can't remember how big is G.A.Z. M21 Volga on the inside (ride one on twice ocasions - same car). It's not very big, but not too small either. But for here is considered a big car. It wasn't a good acceleration car, but the engine had a good torque. Fuel consumption was not low.
But a 4, maybe 5 litre engine was too small in the late '60's?

What I hate the fact that they don't make cars at that is easy to make some custom stuff, for eg the brake pedal on the right (manual gearbox), light dip on the floor and so on.
Some cars today don't have any longer a spare tire.

Liters displacement really came in around the time fuel injection took over in the 80s.

Most full size American cars of the 60s were underpowered if displacement was under 250CID most of the inline 6 ecconomy engines I've heard of were in the 250s to low 300s...(granted you probably weren't going to be able to pass people, and on a wagon or truck or van loaded it might become underpowered). I've heard that many of the inline slant 6 engines were longer lived than most of the V8s available. Some of the midsize and compacts could easily get away with offering even smaller engines.

This might sound a bit obnoxious but the Studebaker Lark Compact while available with small 6 cylinder engines could also fit and be ordered with rather large V8s...I hear it was a somewhat popular drag racing setup back in the day...heck there is even someone in my area that built one up.and drives it in the summer.

[Telecolor 3007]

300 cubic inches... that's almost 5 liters (5,000 cubic centimeters). It was underpowered?

Originally Posted by Sandy G

TC3007- Oh, no. Don't worry about it. Trust me, I think you've likely come to the Right Place to ask questions about American cars. While I don't think anyone here buys or sells cars for a living, I also am pretty sure we have quite a few "Petrolheads" in our midst who are only too happy to share our experiences w/you..

My passion are now the British cars, but an old Cady woulnd't be bad.
I'm glad that I got that 1921 auto book.