HDTV vs color television

[3Guncolor]

Most cable companies take the 8VSB over the air HD channel convert it to ASI then mix it with one or two other HD channels then send it out as 256 qam. It would be the same as the over the air channel it just might not have the standard def mulicast channels.
The HD content would be the same. For sometime after the cutoff most cable systems and dish too will have NTSC available. Most of their customers still just have NTSC sets.

[frenchy]

Originally Posted by holmesuser01

Remember when CBS dumped all of the country and rural shows in one fell swoop in 1971? We lost most of my favorite shows then. I've got several modluators for my NTSC sets ready to go when they all fall silent. I'm not looking forward to that day.

Actually since I will still be able to watch OTA stuff on the old sets with the convertors, and I always watch them using a VCR tuner and channel 3 anyway, it isn't going to bother me much. (I don't have cable.) I think I'll do like a commemorative vigil thing where I have all my sets turned on to some vhf channel at the moment they pull the plug and watch them go to static. I wonder if all the vhf/uhf stations are all supposed to be pulled at the same time and day or what?

[oldtvman]

Understand I,m not disputing the natural progression to Digital television, my point of the thread was that I have lived through the introduction of both, and in my mind there is little comparison between the excitment of seeing color tv for the first time vs seeing digital television, keep in although the picture quality has improved, the program material has not, i still wonder why I spend the money I do to subscribe to directv with 160 channels and nothing on.

[oldtvman]

one of the main reasons for the transistion to dtv was the turning back of analog frequencies to the FCC for other purposes. ALso as time goes by your digital television will become more of any information center, displaying multi-function screens

[3Guncolor]

One thing I don't see a lot of talk about is some stations don't plan on having any HD programming on. They will just have five or 6 channels of the same stuff they have today. There is no rule that says HD TV it's just digital TV that they must transmit.
Also even if they do have HD programming (the major networks will) they may limit the data so they can have 2 or 3 other channels on. ABC and some PBS stations have been testing this. I think one of the reasons to move to didgital was to sell sets and equipment. Cable and dish have been using digital for sometime now.

[frenchy]

Originally Posted by oldtvman

Understand I,m not disputing the natural progression to Digital television, my point of the thread was that I have lived through the introduction of both, and in my mind there is little comparison between the excitment of seeing color tv for the first time vs seeing digital television,

What did you first view HDTV on? (I mean HDTV, not just 'digital television', which could just be plain old standard definition). I don't think you can really see the full effect of HDTV unless it is on a newer plasma or other recent screens and on a BIG one, the bigger the better (50 inches and bigger), and something in 1080i.
I remember when I first started thinking about HDTV, the sets were a lot smaller and not nearly as good as they are now and I didn't bite. Would have been same with color for me probably too. I wouldn't have bought HDTV when I first saw it any more than I would have bought a CT-100 with that dinky little screen roundish screen compared to the much biger rectangular b/w 'big' screens.
The bigger the set, the better and better HDTV looks than standard def, and the more standard def starts to look very cheesy looking, akin to a kinescope.
Again I point out comparing to HDTV to standard def on a big screen, if you watch hdtv for an hour and then put it back on regular tv, you will squint and say "eeeewwwww!" I guarantee it, if you have good eyes. You will NOT do that switching between color and b/w no matter how much you look at color. That indicates HDTV is not some minor improvement in TV compared to color introduction.

[OvenMaster]

Originally Posted by frenchy

The bigger the set, the better and better HDTV looks than standard def, and the more standard def starts to look very cheesy looking, akin to a kinescope.

Bingo. IMHO, the real test therefore would be to put one HDTV of a size as similar as possible to a standard def set side by side, with both sets fed the same signal. Just like speakers where louder is perceived as "better", so bigger is perceived as "better" for television pictures. I've tried this in stores with sets around the 27" size, and the differences are (while admittedly marginally better)simply not worth the massive price premium that HDTV commands. When HDTV sets of a similar size drop in price to within around ten percent more than what a standard def set costs, THEN talk to me! Otherwise I will let other suckers... I mean early adopters... subsidize the cost of R&D and marketing and profits.

Tom

[andy]

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[bgadow]

Frenchy makes a good point about tv always being full of crap. I've got some video tapes recorded (by other people) in the 80s. Looking back to that time I think of it as good television-hey, I was a kid! But some of the shows that these folks taped our unwatchable. (and totally forgotten now) There is some police drama that they liked, one tape is almost nothing but that show (I forget the name) but today's CSI, NCIS & Cold Case (my wife's current favorites) make this old thing look like high school drama club.

I'm a fan of Everybody Loves Raymond myself but even that isn't enough to get me to turn on a tv. I could go weeks at a time without finding a reason to flip the switch, except to tinker with it! I did watch some PBS last night with decent shows on Hot Dogs, Ketchup & Sandwiches. Only half payed attention to it while I was reading the paper.

[Chad Hauris]

It also seems like the junk-i-fication of TV has crept into cable networks too...used to be that networks like the discovery channel, TLC, American Movie Classics, Cartoon Network, TV Land even the Food network used to really focus in on the best types of programming that characterized that network...seems now that these networks have turned to I don't know what kind of stuff to try and get a different audience, like a lot of reality shows or adding commercials.

Remember when TLC showed stuff like The Secret Life of Machines? Now they have shows like a Baby Story or a Wedding story or some such.
I have noticed that on DirectTV there are some subsidiary networks that cropped up to take on some of the original programming of, say Discovery (Like Discovery Home channel, the Military channel, the Science Channel) which have some good stuff but these too seem like there is less on them.

It seems now that you have to have a system like Direct TV with a lot of channels to really catch good shows.

[andy]

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[RVonse]

Originally Posted by OvenMaster

I've tried this in stores with sets around the 27" size, and the differences are (while admittedly marginally better)simply not worth the massive price premium that HDTV commands. Tom

You won't see much difference at 27". You'll start to see somewhat more difference between the formats at 48-60". And you will see a huge unbelievable breathtaking difference at 120".

Comparing HDTV to NTSC at 27" is like comparing a Wal-Mart Sampo special to a Pioneer Elite reciever while listening to both examples through a set of cheap headphones. You won't hear much difference through headphones.

So if your only goal is to only watch at 27" then I agree with you that the difference would not be worth a massive premium. But then again, HDTV is probably going to come down in price a great deal before it is all over with.

[frenchy]

<<<So if your only goal is to only watch at 27" then I agree with you that the difference would not be worth a massive premium. But then again, HDTV is probably going to come down in price a great deal before it is all over with>>

Too me it was only worth it because I don't have cable and finally wanted a big screen tv. I didn't see any huge price premium for HDTV, it just seemed like a price premium for a big set capable of much sharper pictures. To me, buying a cheaper 50 inch tv that doesn't do HD and only does standard def is just blowing a OK picture up to look rotten and would be flushing the money down the toilet. If that's what I wanted to see I would have just stuck with my 27" Sylvania. So I went with an HD bigscreen with built-in HD tuner, and I love the thing to death. I will agree that some tv stations are REALLY good at broadcasting their standard def content and it looks pretty damn good on 50 inches., i.e. as good as you could possibly get standard def to look... but standard cable shows? Yuck, too low quality, pixelization, compression artifacts, etc.

[frenchy]

[QUOTE=bgadow]Frenchy makes a good point about tv always being full of crap. I've got some video tapes recorded (by other people) in the 80s. Looking back to that time I think of it as good television-hey, I was a kid! But some of the shows that these folks taped our unwatchable. (and totally forgotten now) >>>

Check out that Jumped The Shark site that talks about when different shows became lousy. Tons of shows listed there that I totally forgot about or never knew existed. People always remember the good stuff. Back in the 80's the only show I watched and was totally hooked on was... Crime Story?? Yup.

[vintagecollect]

HDTV looks greatest on smaller screen as pixels are closer together as so does NTSC.

1 year ago Sears had a $500 HDTV, 25" or 27" that had one of the BEST HD pictures I had ever seen for TWO important reasons over sets costing ten times as much. Screen size was big enough to watch, but NOT too large to dilute high definition picture qualities. Two, this was a direct view CRT that cannot be rivaled in Contrast, shapness , and brightness(DLP rear projection sets are close but no cigar), also limited viewing angle of DLP set.

I have two front projectors HDTV resolution compatible--DLP and high quality LCD video projectors that produce fantastic pictures --- until screen reaches a certain size that drags down picture quality down. HD resolution can be kept on larger screens, but line doubler is expensive and most people not familiar with. Front projectors also can be viewed at any angle like regular TV . Rear projection sets are still lacking in theatre quality for HDTV unless outragious amount of money is spent on upscale model. My point is---- HDTV isn't the same unless you are actually watching HDTV resolution on your final screen size.


Early color roundies with a DVD video signal and video amplifier in between TV and DVD player from Rat Shack will reduce noise in signal to give tuner a strong signal. This shows full quality of NTSC as DVD resolution is greater and doesn't take away NTSC picture quality. It's weird to watch a 50 year old color TV and see such a great picture as same standard used for many years. It feels liked I'm not watching shows on old technology or an "antique TV". Color roundie still feels state of the art ---and a marvel of modern technology.




I don't see public accepting Digital that instantly makes their current sets obsolete if not backward compatible to NTSC. Home theatre owners have small fortunes invested in video setups as so do Plasma TV people. Television stations I'm sure will do a gradual transition to Digital as has happened with color in 50s/60s. IT HAS GOT TO BE NTSC backward compatible for this reason. Most will be reluctant probaly since just spent money for HDTV conversion. ANY standard will be abandoned if costs public too much/ not feasable anyways.


Both topics are rehash of other threads .