Phil Collins - Seriously Live

[Dude111]

I was listening to my Phil Collins Concert I have on VHS again earlier

Oh my its goregous!! -- The original analogue concert audio is on the linear track and it sounds incredibly beautiful!!!

I cant believe they left the analogue soundtrack there... Probably figured no one would hear it anyway (Most VCRs are HIFI -- Im glad Mine isnt)

The HIFI track is digital trash of the concert which I dont wanna hear.....

Phil Collins has an excellent concert and all his 80s music is in glorious analogue!! (I havent ever heard most of those songs so nice)

For 1990 its amazing they left it there!! (The video is composite analogue so the analogue audio is there already but they could have taken it off and put the digi crap there (They probably figured no one listens to the linear track)

IT SOUNDS SO MUCH BETTER THAN DIGITAL TRASH!!!!!!

[Electronic M]

VHS Hi-Fi IS ANALOG! VHS Hi-Fi is analog audio FM modulated then recorded and played back off the video head drum (which has better bandwidth, dynamic range and noise floor than the linear audio tracks).
Hell, VHS Hi-Fi is supposedly the BEST ANALOG recording format ever offered, with better linearity, frequency response, and noise floor than Reel Tape or CD.

VHS, and S-VHS tape are both 100% analog formats in the US...They don't have any digital audio or video tracks.
There's only 2 ways you can even convey digital audio over VHS in the US:
1.) PCM which is an audio only format... Basically PCM takes the digital audio signal and converts it to a "video" signal that looks like a black screen with white dashes that flicker on and off in turn with the digital data....PCM tapes in the NTSC region can't hold any video to accompany the PCM audio so there are no movies or concerts with video that have digital audio.
2.) If you convert a digital recording in the mastering/duplication studio to analog and record the analog audio to VHS...But its no longer digital at that point. Also unless a tape is dual language duplication facilities that made VHS tapes would dub the same tracks of the master onto BOTH the Hi-Fi AND THE LINEAR tracks!...So if the Hi-Fi analog tracks are a dub of some digital master tape then the linear tracks are too....So either way you're listening to an analog dub of a digital master tape... You're just choosing the lowest quality pair (the linear tracks) of the 4 channels of analog audio VHS carries.

You probably didn't understand half of what I said and won't learn anything from it given your track record.

But you come across as stupid as a some one who bought a 4 cylinder Ford Mustang instead of the V8 claiming their 4 cylinder Mustang is faster than a Tesla. Not only are you wrong but you're bragging about the worst version of what you like being better without knowing you have the worst version. You're as laughable as the emperor bragging about his new clothing that only idiots can't see.

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

VHS Hi-Fi IS ANALOG! VHS Hi-Fi is analog audio FM modulated then recorded and played back off the video head drum (which has better bandwidth, dynamic range and noise floor than the linear audio tracks).

But the HIFI track on the Phil Collins tape IS A DIGITALLY SOURCED recording.. (Like listening to a CD)


The linear track is the original composite analogue sourced recording and to me is beautiful..

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Dude111

But the HIFI track on the Phil Collins tape IS A DIGITALLY SOURCED recording.. (Like listening to a CD)


The linear track is the original composite analogue sourced recording and to me is beautiful..

Unless they specifically say something to the effect of 'digital audio on Hi-Fi track, analog audio on linear track' on the tape and or jacket, there's a 99.9% chance the same digital master recording was fed to both the linear audio track input and the Hi-Fi input of the industrial machine that made your tape...Some of those industrial machines that made mass-produced tape releases didn't even have provisions for recording different audio onto the linear tracks.

If the tape doesn't specifically say there's a difference between the sources for the linear and Hi-Fi tracks, then there almost certainly isn't.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

If the tape doesn't specifically say there's a difference between the sources for the linear and Hi-Fi tracks, then there almost certainly isn't.

Of course, there is no different source for the two tracks. The linear track sounds mediocre, therefore it is "better" to the OP.

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Yep nothing like some wow & flutter, harmonic distortion, and a few occasional dropouts to enhance the sound!

Yes! If it is lousy enough, it can even go from "analog" all the way to the nausea-inducing "analogooey" as the OP likes to use.

What if it ever is revealed that Phil Collins and his band and technicians used digital mixers in their shows for that tour? Will the OP then decide it is all garbage, and throw away the tape?

This "I love analog" (or worse, "analogooey") stuff gets really annoying after enough endless repeats.

[Ed in Tx]

Originally Posted by Dude111

The linear track is the original composite analogue sourced recording and to me is beautiful..

Yep nothing like some wow & flutter, harmonic distortion, and a few occasional dropouts to enhance the sound!

[DVtyro]

Originally Posted by Ed in Tx

Yep nothing like some wow & flutter, harmonic distortion, and a few occasional dropouts to enhance the sound!

Seriously cannot figure out where all the people who love ANY analog stuff including horrible low-speed high-noise high-W&F garbage come from. Digital has been a revelation, a great improvement across the board and an equalizer in that both rich and poor can now get the same great quality for peanuts. Before the digital age, good analog quality did cost a pretty penny, and good analog video quality was not accessible even to wealthy people unless they owned a personal TV studio.

In terms of audio, the best consumer analog media was sourced from digital sources, like DDD/Digalog audio cassettes, they were the best.

[ARC Tech-109]

Originally Posted by DVtyro

Seriously cannot figure out where all the people who love ANY analog stuff including horrible low-speed high-noise high-W&F garbage come from. Digital has been a revelation, a great improvement across the board and an equalizer in that both rich and poor can now get the same great quality for peanuts. Before the digital age, good analog quality did cost a pretty penny, and good analog video quality was not accessible even to wealthy people unless they owned a personal TV studio.

In terms of audio, the best consumer analog media was sourced from digital sources, like DDD/Digalog audio cassettes, they were the best.

I will counter this argument in that digital does not always mean "better" in terms of overall sound quality. During the 1980's digital revolution many of the recordings were sweetened and tailored to the medium giving them a very stark and edgy sound, just because the CD label said DDD that did not make it any better. Some labels were better at the digital mastering than others, Windham Hill and Telarc and DMP were a few of the early pioneers who set the bar that is still in place today.

I'm not going to argue that linear VHS stereo is anything better than dictation quality regardless of the recording, most decks after about 1985 thinned down the capstan flywheel throwing what little stability to the curb to save a few pennies. The early days of Betamax also had linear stereo and running in B-1 was roughly the same speed as a cassette tape.

AFM recordings be it VHS Betamax or BetacamSP are all analog mediums that are written along with the video content by the head drum, VHS uses depth multiplexing while Beta is mixed in between the chroma and luma carriers. Running at this recording rate the wow & flutter is on the bottom of the scale, dynamic range is in the mid 90 db's and it doesn't suffer from temporial aliasing when the upper end of the sampling rate is exceeded (22.050khz). There's no quantizitaion error or jitter with the AFM recording and the medium has been used for mastering.
I have both analog and digital recorders from the professional arenas and as a producer of training materials I prefer to stay with the digital side for the ease of NLE while my audio and video archival work is more analog oriented using BetacamSP as a capture medium.

What is considered "best" is really based on ones opinion and like comparing apples to apples it all comes down to prefrence, I like the juicy red ones.

[ARC Tech-109]

My Impala SS is faster than the Tesla but it doesn't sound as good as Beta HiFi

[old_tv_nut]

The phrase "Composite analog sourced" is non-sensical. Composite is a term applicable to composite video, which carries no audio whatsoever.

Is this the tape you have?
https://www.discogs.com/release/9335...Live-In-Berlin

I can find no indication that the linear tracks and the Hi-Fi came from different sources.

[old_tv_nut]

@Dude111 --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_Hits..._Live!

The LP, cassette, and CD album was a composite of different venues in the tour; while the VHS, Beta, and DVD were the Berlin venue only. There is no reason to assume that the master sources for the linear tracks and Hi-Fi tracks were any different.

Do you have documentation to the contrary?

[Dude111]

Originally Posted by old_tv_nut

Do you have documentation to the contrary?

I dont wanna make anyone mad buddy. Electronic M sounds like he is mad...

I listenend to the HIFI track on my GO VIDEO unit and it sounds thin and gross like its digital..... The Linear side sounds warmer and just goregous....

My ears can tell the difference and analogue sounds goregous

[DVtyro]

Originally Posted by Dude111

My ears can tell the difference and analogue sounds goregous

I can agree with the above

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by Dude111

I dont wanna make anyone mad buddy. Electronic M sounds like he is mad...

I listenend to the HIFI track on my GO VIDEO unit and it sounds thin and gross like its digital..... The Linear side sounds warmer and just goregous....

My ears can tell the difference and analogue sounds goregous

I'm not mad, just calling a preposterous statement....That still isn't backed up with any real evidence.

[old_tv_nut]

@Dude111 --

I repeat:

Do you have documentation to the contrary?

I am happy to be corrected if there is real evidence.