Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Vintage TV & Radio Tech Forum

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:00 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
Hazard of Radium Clock Hands

Back in the 1990s, a family friend who used to be a prospector brought over a Geiger counter. I put on the headphones, and followed the clicks around the house. The one thing which drove it nuts, were the hands on my Zenith AA5 clock radio. Needless to say, the radio was moved well away from my bed, to the other side of the room.

Since exposure to radiation has a time factor, and the intensity falls off by the cube of the distance from the source, I figured that if the clock hands are in a spot which is fairly far away from anywhere I spend significant time, everything should be okay.

Anyhow, I recently bought a Panasonic clock radio with a similar telechron movement to my Zenith. This one, I want to keep close to my bed, and use it regularly.

When I was doing the restore, I removed the hour and minute hands, and put them into the basement in a ziplock bag.

The family friend who possessed the Geiger counter passed away 15 years ago, and the Geiger counter is long gone. Has anyone here looked into the actual hazard posed by radium clock hands? I don't want to be paranoid about it, but at the same time I'm concerned about having a radioactive source which I know made a Geiger counter go nuts right beside my head for 7 hours a day.

Thoughts?

As of now my plan is to try and find some non radioactive hands for the Panasonic. I don't believe that the rest of the radio would be radioactive, with the hands removed?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:30 PM
Electronic M's Avatar
Electronic M Electronic M is offline
M is for Memory
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pewaukee/Delafield Wi
Posts: 14,758
Back in the day many people spent ~8 hours a day for decades on end with those clock hands next to their heads, and you don't hear about higher rates of brain cancer in that generation so it probably is not that big of a deal. I've got a 50's Zenith like that 5' off the foot of my bed, and don't worry...The only 4 reasons it is not next to my head are 1.) if it were I'd turn it off, fall back to sleep and miss work (standing up wakes me up). 2.) I can toss and turn violently sometimes and I don't want it getting knocked off the table and broken. 3.) The motor and the switch mech are not silent and it would bug me if it were that close (especially the alarm catch click on the weekends when I sleep in). 4.) It looks cooler where I have it.

Personally I would not let it bother me, but if you can't get over it here is a solution: dip the hands in stripping compound to get the radio active paint off, repaint them, and reinstall. Get modern glow paint and or install a dial lamp if you want. If you are worried about residual radiation in the metal (I wouldn't as it should be very small if any), get some led paint or tin it in solder before painting it.
__________________
Tom C.

Zenith: The quality stays in EVEN after the name falls off!
What I want. --> http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...62&postcount=4
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-04-2017, 01:37 PM
Eric H's Avatar
Eric H Eric H is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 11,565
Don't strip them, that just spreads it around, you will have a big glob of Radioactive waste. The danger is more in inhaling small bits that flake off or ingesting it somehow.

Most of the people who died from Radium poisoning were the ladies who painted the hands, they licked the brush to get a point, painted their lips and teeth and so on, ignorant of the fact that it was toxic, it gets in the bones and stays there forever.

Normal exposure from a clock radio is probably negligible, still I wouldn't want one closer than several feet away from me while I slept for 8 hours.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2017, 02:51 PM
maxhifi's Avatar
maxhifi maxhifi is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,841
I think the memory of the Geiger counter going nuts when the tube was bought near my Zenith is what makes me not want it so close to my head. Of course, I have no idea what the actual significance was, or how sensitive the Geiger counter is relative to background or something harmful.

I read on a different forum that several decades of sleeping right beside a clock with radium hands would give someone approximately twice the exposure a person would normally get. Again, I don't know enough to interpret the statistic, but being a paranoid type would prefer to avoid the added anxiety.

Lack of statistics means very little - brain tumors happen all the time, and it's hard to know how often a root cause was established, let alone linked to something like radioactive clock hands.

Look how freely asbestos was used in the same era as radium paint - I think a lot of things have changed since the "good old days"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:50 PM
old_tv_nut's Avatar
old_tv_nut old_tv_nut is offline
See yourself on Color TV!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rancho Sahuarita
Posts: 7,184
To distinguish radium from non-radioactive phosphorescence, compare brightness first thing at bedtime to brightness in the morning before turning on any lights. Radium dials are constantly bright, non-radioactive phosphorescent dials fade during the night. No Geiger counter needed.
__________________
www.bretl.com
Old TV literature, New York World's Fair, and other miscellany
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 05-04-2017, 08:38 PM
Sandy G's Avatar
Sandy G Sandy G is offline
Spiteful Old Cuss
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rogersville, Tennessee
Posts: 9,571
For all the unadulterated Zhit I've taken my whole life over being named "Geiger", I've NEVER ever really examined a counter. Halfway thought about buying one offa Da Bay, but ones that weren't obviously dime store party favors, were always a lot more than I wanted to put into one. Dunno which is worse as well-One of the drooling teeming millions attempting to Spel- or pronounce "Geiger"...."Gee-Gur", Gay-Gur Googur, then the same shit except w/Jays" Its NOT an uncommon name, in Germany, its usually a secondary or tertiary common name. I half-heartedltly tried to get my Dad to agree to let me change it when I was12-15 or so. I wanted to change it to "Zastupenevitch", who was one of Irwin Allen's lackeys. My dad did think about branding our cattle w/a small violin, for I think "Geiger" actually means violin player or somesuch.
__________________
Benevolent Despot
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-04-2017, 09:37 PM
Findm-Keepm's Avatar
Findm-Keepm Findm-Keepm is offline
Followin' the Rules...
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
.....The danger is more in inhaling small bits that flake off or ingesting it somehow.

Most of the people who died from Radium poisoning were the ladies who painted the hands, they licked the brush to get a point, painted their lips and teeth and so on, ignorant of the fact that it was toxic, it gets in the bones and stays there forever.

Normal exposure from a clock radio is probably negligible, still I wouldn't want one closer than several feet away from me while I slept for 8 hours.
+1 - As one that's been to both Ionizing and Non-ionizing radiation training, you get more radiation in your lifetime from the sun than any other source, unless you work in a nuclear field, uranium mining, preparing plutonium "cake", or are in the gamma source (Non-destructive testing, radiation therapy, etc) business.
__________________
Brian
USN RET (Avionics / Cal)
CET- Consumer Repair and Avionics ('88)
"Capacitor Cosmetologist since '79"

When fuses go to work, they quit!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2017, 12:35 AM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
Several years ago, I measured one of the famous radioactive meters on a R-390 receiver and found only about 5x background with the probe against the face of the meter... a few inches away the count was greatly reduced. The clock on my Zenith G516W was only slightly higher than the R-390 meter.

http://www.videokarma.org/showpost.p...9&postcount=11

I'm not worried about using the radio.

jr
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-05-2017, 01:49 AM
Titan1a Titan1a is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Plattsmouth, NE 68048
Posts: 738
Radium is an alpha emitter. Radiation dies off quickly by distance and can be stopped with a piece of paper. Radium takes a long time to decay and emits radon gas. The amount of gas emitted is minuscule. Ingesting any alpha emitters is a different story. DO NOT DISTURB! Getting this airborne or getting it into your system is DANGEROUS; akin to Polonium. Leaving this alone is your best course of action.
__________________
Rick (Sparks) Ethridge
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-05-2017, 11:12 AM
Eric H's Avatar
Eric H Eric H is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 11,565
This thread reminded me of another radioactive consumer product, potentially much more hazardous than clock hands, Fiesta Ware Dishes, particularly the red ones.

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-radioa...ta-ware-608648
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 05-05-2017, 03:38 PM
Sandy G's Avatar
Sandy G Sandy G is offline
Spiteful Old Cuss
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rogersville, Tennessee
Posts: 9,571
The R-390/390A community has been going over & over this issue for years. Consensus seems to be that the meters are so small, & fairly elderly, that the danger they pose is negligible. Prolly shouldn't open one up & try to lick it clean....
__________________
Benevolent Despot
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-05-2017, 05:23 PM
Eric H's Avatar
Eric H Eric H is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 11,565
Radium has a 1600 years half life Sandy so all of them are still as radioactive as the day they were made. I agree they pose little risk in normal use.

People wore radium dial watches on their wrist for years, I think the metal case prevents it from penetrating on the skin side.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-05-2017, 06:00 PM
N2IXK's Avatar
N2IXK N2IXK is offline
Technohippie
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sittin' on the "Group W" bench...
Posts: 799
Yes, the lack of a bright glow is NOT an indication that the radioactivity has diminished. The constant radioactive bombardment slowly destroys the phosphor component that is mixed into the paint, which causes the glow to become very weak, but the radium is still just about as hot as ever.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-05-2017, 08:36 PM
Sandy G's Avatar
Sandy G Sandy G is offline
Spiteful Old Cuss
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rogersville, Tennessee
Posts: 9,571
Here's my "Nooclur combat, toe to toe w/th' Rooskies" story. I think I've told it, but its still a good story I can't vouch for its accuracy, but its still a crackin' good tale. US 11-W passes thru Greater Bugtussle here. Back in the times past, you could go from Canada to Nawlins on it. Now, its just a hardened artery of our nation's past. It has several big old, classic Southern Mansions on it, one of which belonged to a Mrs John Thompson, who eked out a small stipend as an elementary school teacher. Mr Thompson had passed on a long while back. During the War, Mrs T augmented her income by renting out rooms, & fixing a small breakfast for her guests. She developed a pretty respectable clientele, & had quite a few folks who paid her return visits, all thru the War. There were one group of men who always came in threes, usually staying overnight, missing a day or 2, then all three would return, & maybe see her again in roughly a month. Naturally, Mrs T was curious about all this, but she never asked questions. This kept up all thru the war years, & after it was all over with, a few of her guests stopped by & told her good bye. One day, out of the blue, this one bunch of guys stopped by. They were the crew who always showed up in threes. there were 2 of 'em who wore uniforms, the one fellow always wore a suit. He asked her if she'd ever wondered what was going on.... Sure, she said, but it wasn't any of my business.. He asked her if she remembered the night all 3 of 'em stayed in the truck... Yep, I figured it was a big deal. Mrs Thompson, you had most of the Atomic Bomb in your driveway that night, he said.. Here in Greater Bugtussle, they were about a half day's drive to Oak Ridge . They'd spend some time there, go on to some other facility, & then would check back thru in a week or so. So there's my story. I can't confirm it one way or the other, but I knew Mrs Thompson-She was a substitute teacher when I went to elementary skule in the Sixties. She was NOT the kind of person who could ever possibly cook up a tale like that, so I tend to believe its the truth. There was another little old lady who lived here who was a big mucketty-muck in the Women's Air Corps, she bought ALL the spark plugs for the B-24 Liberator, I only got to meet her a time or 2, another sweet little old lady that I got the DEFINATE impression that you prolly DIDN'T wanna cross her. I'm thinkin' she had a pretty high rank, maybe a full-bird Colonel.
__________________
Benevolent Despot
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-05-2017, 09:25 PM
benman94's Avatar
benman94 benman94 is offline
Resident Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,190
A radium dial/indicator presents no real hazard, so the long as the radium is OUTSIDE of your body. You'd be surprised how much effort goes into developing technologies to destroy tissue with radiation more effectively. There is a reason the alpha particle is considered essentially useless of cancer treatment purposes.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:23 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.