Videokarma.org

Go Back   Videokarma.org TV - Video - Vintage Television & Radio Forums > Antique phonographs

We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-17-2015, 10:49 PM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
BTW...If this is really CADMIUM...you do NOT want to BREATHE the dust from it. ? I am not an "alarmist" by ANY stretch of the imagination"..BUT SOME things are VERY dangerous...and CADMIUM is at the TOP of that list !! I would say WORSE to breathe than ASBESTOS !!

use a RESPIRATOR or at least a good MASK over you nose and mouth...BEFORE yo mess much with those socket pins !! And try to have a LOT of airflow around you--to rtemove any build-up of cadmium diust in the air !!
Well I did clean the tube socket (I used water on a rag to keep the dust down) and then I used a paper clip to clean out the sockets fully and sure enough after a good cleaning the 12AX7 tube came to life (along with the 60 hz hum from the bad filter caps although surprisingly enough the 60 hz hum wasn't very loud it wasn't nearly as loud as I was expecting it to be it was actually somewhat tolerable.) Anyways the filter cap is a 20/20/20/20 @ 450 Volts and I think there was one of those on the AES Website for sale that was a can like the original so I might just get one of those and be done with it instead of having to fuss around with a terminal strip and individual caps underneath.

UPDATE: The hum I was hearing wasn't from the filter capacitors being bad, it was from a loose wire on the cartridge on the turntable assembly and I know that's what the hum was from because when I turned the volume control it lowered the volume on the humming sound which indicates that it was because of the loose wire on the cartridge and not because of bad filter caps because if it was because of bad filter caps the humming noise wouldn't of been volume dependant and it would of stayed at a constant volume no matter what the volume control was adjusted to. So I'll just resolder the loose wire on the cartridge and it should take care of the hum and it should be good to go.

One question though, if Cadmium is so bad for us, then why do they still use it in modern Ni-Cd rechargable batteries then? and why did they use Cadmium to plate radio chassises and parts if it was so bad for us?

Last edited by Captainclock; 08-17-2015 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-17-2015, 11:08 PM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
Ni-Cd batters are not that popular anymore....having been supplanted by NI-MH and LI-oh or LI-Po types--which have FAR More energy density and capacity for given ounce of cell weight. I also think that it is figured that one will NOT bust open an old -NI-CD battery and then grind the cadmium in the mixture to find dust and then stand there an BREATHE the dust...

As for chassis plating....I THINK it wa smore along the line of "didn't know better" back then....about the health risks of Cadmium dust and such. Just like asbestos.... I would say it is a lOT more hazardous to breathe cadmium over the short-term than asbestos though...

I have watched an old film on production of the 1929-30 Philco radio chassis sets and cabinets. It is SCARY...how LITTLE regard to worker safety there was then. NO interlocks on the metal presses. NO ventillation over the area where wood was being glued...with a LOT of fumes coming up and NO respirators on the workers...etc...etc..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-17-2015, 11:45 PM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
Ni-Cd batters are not that popular anymore....having been supplanted by NI-MH and LI-oh or LI-Po types--which have FAR More energy density and capacity for given ounce of cell weight. I also think that it is figured that one will NOT bust open an old -NI-CD battery and then grind the cadmium in the mixture to find dust and then stand there an BREATHE the dust...

As for chassis plating....I THINK it wa smore along the line of "didn't know better" back then....about the health risks of Cadmium dust and such. Just like asbestos.... I would say it is a lOT more hazardous to breathe cadmium over the short-term than asbestos though...

I have watched an old film on production of the 1929-30 Philco radio chassis sets and cabinets. It is SCARY...how LITTLE regard to worker safety there was then. NO interlocks on the metal presses. NO ventillation over the area where wood was being glued...with a LOT of fumes coming up and NO respirators on the workers...etc...etc..
Interesting... Anyways I was just noticing that the record player on this unit doesn't seem to be grounded very well as it hums like crazy when one picks up the tone arm to set it down on a record to play it, but then the humming settles down when my hand is away from the tone arm, also like I said I noticed that the humming noise I was hearing earlier is dependant on the volume control and tone control although it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the filter caps anyhow just to be on the safe side, I was looking at the antique electronics supply website and they have a 20/20/20/20 @ 475 volts can capacitor for sale there for $35 which I would almost rather do that than try to mount a terminal strip on the underside of the chassis and have to fuss with the wiring of each individual cap, plus I want to try and make this look as original as possible, and also replacing all of the paper caps would probably help out a bit with this things overall performance.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-17-2015, 11:58 PM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
I never have messed much with mine....I am guessing that cap mounted on the SIDE of the chassis is the one you are talking about. If you can cut the volume totally and do NOT get hum...then it is NOT coming from the power supply I beleive.

Try and ground the phono chassis to the amp chassis--make SURE the ground connection is good between them. This should cut down on hum. Also--make sure all connections to the pickup are clean and secure and have continuity through them too.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:18 AM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
I never have messed much with mine....I am guessing that cap mounted on the SIDE of the chassis is the one you are talking about. If you can cut the volume totally and do NOT get hum...then it is NOT coming from the power supply I beleive.

Try and ground the phono chassis to the amp chassis--make SURE the ground connection is good between them. This should cut down on hum. Also--make sure all connections to the pickup are clean and secure and have continuity through them too.
I already redid the positive connection for the cartridge so that I know is good and clean, as for the negative/ground connection for the cartridge I have yet to mess with repairing that connection although the wire is still connected to the connector yet and still has a good clean solder connection, as for the turntable chassis being grounded to the amplifier chassis, I haven't had a chance to see if there's a ground wire going between the two or if it would be possible to connect a wire between the two. And yes the large can cap on the side of the chassis is what I was talking about (its the filter cap for the amplifier) and yes the hum completely goes away when the volume is turned all the way down, so I'm guessing its a ground continuity issue but as to where its at I'm not sure. The only thing I can think of that could be causing the humming issue is that there was a 220k ohm resistor and positive lead from the tuner input jack that were connected on one side to the positive terminal of the phono jack and the other side was just hanging there not connected to anything (which I think it was supposed to be connected to something but not sure where it was connected to because it looks like it broke off of something but as to what I'm not sure.)

Last edited by Captainclock; 08-18-2015 at 12:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #21  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:50 AM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
Is there a sams which will help you on this one?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:53 AM
rca2000's Avatar
rca2000 rca2000 is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cincinnati,ohio
Posts: 2,090
Looks like sams # 372-16.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-18-2015, 01:31 AM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rca2000 View Post
Looks like sams # 372-16.
I have some Sam's Photofacts but not this particular one, and I don't have the money to pay $20 to get a copy of it from the Sam's website...

There is a Schematic glued onto the inside of the cabinet but its hard to tell where the 220k Ohm resistor is supposed to go to.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-18-2015, 08:07 AM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Ok I have some pictures of the record player being discussed in here, including pictures of the aforementioned resistor that seems to go nowhere in the amp chassis, and a picture of the schematic from the inside of the case.

Picture number 1 shows the 220k Ohm resistor in question and the fact that only one side of the resistor is attached to the circuit and the other side is currently detached from the circuit but from where in the circuit I'm not sure because the schematic (picture number 2) doesn't really show clearly where the reistor is supposed to go in the circuit clearly one side of the reistor was supposed to go to the positive terminal of the phono input jack, and the other side was clearly attached to the positive side of the tuner input jack (as the positive wire from the tuner input jack is still attached to the other side of the resistor) but as for where the detached side of the resistor was supposed to go in the circuit as a whole I'm not sure as its not marked very well on the schematic and might be why the amp and record player has a hum to it, but not sure, maybe someone on here can make better sense of the schematic than I can, because normally I don't have any issues with reading a schematic but this one is unusually hard follow for me some reason.

Now for the last picture, I have a question about the supposed pilot lamp lens. For some reason or another the pilot lamp lense is a 5 inch long plastic rod that goes into the cabinet and rests up against a piece of wood that is flexible to the touch and when you push on the pilot lamp lens it goes into the cabinet and back out almost like a push button because of that piece of flexible wood it rests up against. My question is, why would they design the pilot lamp lens in that manner? It doesn't really make any sense and it definitely doesn't make any functional sense as it doesn't function as a push-button switch of any sort so why would you have a pilot lamp lense like that?

The rest of the pictures are photos of the cabinet and the turntable.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN2543.jpg (74.0 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2544.jpg (72.4 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2545.jpg (73.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2546.jpg (53.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2547.jpg (61.0 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN2548.jpg (53.5 KB, 14 views)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-18-2015, 09:55 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,562
The schematic shows the resistor connected accross the two jack hot terminals. Someone probably diidn't want it connected that way. Most units had a switch to select inputs.
The funky pilot lite lens, actually was an external reject push button, so you didn't have to open the lid to reject the record.
If you assemble the unit, you'll see how it works.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #26  
Old 08-18-2015, 10:58 AM
jr_tech's Avatar
jr_tech jr_tech is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
The funky pilot lite lens, actually was an external reject push button, so you didn't have to open the lid to reject the record.
If you assemble the unit, you'll see how it works.
That's kinda fun! Youtube video shows one in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmqJce5xrfU

jr
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-18-2015, 11:53 AM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr_tech View Post
That's kinda fun! Youtube video shows one in operation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmqJce5xrfU

jr
Yeah, that is awesome how that external reject button works. Man V-M was definitely a very innovative company in its hayday.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:03 PM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
The schematic shows the resistor connected accross the two jack hot terminals. Someone probably diidn't want it connected that way. Most units had a switch to select inputs.
The funky pilot lite lens, actually was an external reject push button, so you didn't have to open the lid to reject the record.
If you assemble the unit, you'll see how it works.
Well Would having that resistor disconnected (although from the way it sounds it maybe wasnt meant to connect to anything else as it is connected across both jack's hot terminals but it just looks weird how they have it just sitting there like that) cause the record player to hum really badly when you touch the tone arm and when in normal operation? Just wondering because it has a hum to it that is controllable with the volume and tone controls, and its acting almost like its not grounded even though when I looked at the turntable itself it doesn't appear to have any sort of ground wire comming off of the turntable and going to the chassis anywhere like I have seen on some of the later stereophonic V-M changers that are in other branded record players like Motorola and Zenith or what not.
Would the lack of a seperate chassis ground wire on this unit be because this unit was meant to ground the turntable through the audio connector jack or power plug somehow, but maybe has a loose ground connection in the chassis itself for either the audio jack and or power jack depending on which plug the chassis ground was running through? Just wondering
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-21-2015, 09:38 AM
dieseljeep dieseljeep is offline
VideoKarma Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 7,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainclock View Post
Well Would having that resistor disconnected (although from the way it sounds it maybe wasnt meant to connect to anything else as it is connected across both jack's hot terminals but it just looks weird how they have it just sitting there like that) cause the record player to hum really badly when you touch the tone arm and when in normal operation? Just wondering because it has a hum to it that is controllable with the volume and tone controls, and its acting almost like its not grounded even though when I looked at the turntable itself it doesn't appear to have any sort of ground wire comming off of the turntable and going to the chassis anywhere like I have seen on some of the later stereophonic V-M changers that are in other branded record players like Motorola and Zenith or what not.
Would the lack of a seperate chassis ground wire on this unit be because this unit was meant to ground the turntable through the audio connector jack or power plug somehow, but maybe has a loose ground connection in the chassis itself for either the audio jack and or power jack depending on which plug the chassis ground was running through? Just wondering
I couldn't enter the PM last night, site wouldn't take it. It's probably a corrosion problem like the tube socket. The audio input jack, that is. Just run a separate wire from the changer base, to the chassis, then see what happens.
I wouldn't worry about the electrolytic, but I would change the .047 coupling caps to the 6V6 grids, pin 5.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-21-2015, 10:13 AM
Captainclock Captainclock is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseljeep View Post
I couldn't enter the PM last night, site wouldn't take it. It's probably a corrosion problem like the tube socket. The audio input jack, that is. Just run a separate wire from the changer base, to the chassis, then see what happens.
I wouldn't worry about the electrolytic, but I would change the .047 coupling caps to the 6V6 grids, pin 5.
Alright, I'll do that then. I have 2 .047 MFD 630 Volt capacitors left from some capacitors I had taken out of another radio I had tried to fix but never got got it going, so I should at least be able to replace the coupling caps you mentioned.

Thanks for the advice.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:45 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©Copyright 2012 VideoKarma.org, All rights reserved.