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  #16  
Old 05-07-2012, 08:05 AM
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Ed in Tx Ed in Tx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltchan View Post
Ahhh, yes, this was the mid-90s Toshiba chassis, which was a joint-venture with Thomson/RCA. Studio Sound Electronics, the largest online DIY VCR parts store, called this the MBK-48 chassis, and the owner also agrees this was a junky, unreliable VCR. Frankly, I'm never interested in this chassis.
Yep those were pretty bad. They really cut back on the mechanism, tape guides and rollers. Had a good picture though. I remember the 19u head switch some had on the front panel. Every one of those Tosh-RCAs I got in if it had been used at all had little piles of tape oxide beneath the tape guides because it was impossible to get the tape to run smoothly without some wrinkling and skewing between the drum exit guide and the AC head guide.

Quote:
What about the mid-to-late-1980s Toshibas with linear power supply inside? No major problems, right, besides rubber parts? I assume it's reliable overall, and the #2 most-reliable rating must be valid after all.
Rubber parts, reel drive clutch, stuff like that about all I remember.

Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:34 AM
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Zenith26kc20 Zenith26kc20 is offline
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Mitsubishi with glue eating up the circuit traces! We repaired plenty of them!
Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!
Never dull!
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  #18  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:42 AM
waltchan waltchan is offline
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Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
Kind of surprised Mitsubishi ranked in the middle. I probably fixed as many if not more Mitsubishis than any others. Made lots of money off their loose entry and exit tape guide rollers..
It's probably because Mitsubishi was the 2nd largest VHS VCR producer in Japan after Matsushita (Panasonic) during the late-1980s, so tons of units were sold under several brand names, so more units appeared in service centers. I also see more late-1980s Mitsubishi selling on eBay than others, and not all units had been serviced one-time before.

I also find Mitsubishi somewhat troublesome, but Mitsubishi had slightly better electronics that aged better than Panasonic (assuming the glue was removed), since Mitsubishi didn't put in any surface-mount caps.

Last edited by waltchan; 05-07-2012 at 11:46 AM.
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:46 AM
waltchan waltchan is offline
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Originally Posted by Zenith26kc20 View Post
Funai with bad LED's for the sensors!
These Funai LED problems were really common for the mid-to-late 1990s units, or plastic disposable VCRs. The vintage Funai VCRs from the 1980s had no problems.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2012, 01:38 PM
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My Panasonic PV-4022 VCR has been working flawlessly since I purchased it new in 2002. Since getting a DVD player (now have a Blu-ray), however, the Panasonic VCR doesn't get much use except for occasionally viewing old VHS tapes (and I mean old; many if not most of the VHS cassettes in my collection, except four about a half-dozen professionally recorded ones, have old TV shows and movies on them, and the tapes are now close to if not over twenty years old -- they still work like new).

Panasonic VCRs, TVs, etc. have a reputation for longevity, at least the older ones did. One ad for Panasonic from several years ago (which I saw online -- it may still be on Panasonic's website) states, "How about that TV or VCR that just won't die? Probably a Panasonic."

However, I don't know if today's Panasonic video gear, TVs, etc. can be expected to last as long without repairs as the earlier, older units did. My Panny VCR is ten years old and still works, as I stated above, although the auto clock set does not work since the DTV transition. I find that odd and puzzling, as I can still get my area's PBS channels as NTSC analog on my cable. Perhaps Cleveland's PBS station, for whatever reason, dropped the extended-data (XDS) signal that operates the auto clock set feature in Panny, et al. VCRs.
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2012, 05:33 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Originally Posted by waltchan View Post
The most common caps failed in the Panasonics are the surface-mount caps located on the video and Hi-Fi audio board, and I've seen this in many Panasonic units made after 1988, whether it's a simple, no-frill 2-head mono or 6-head Hi-Fi S-VHS unit. Video that turns black, no color, and distorted video, or distorted or no Hi-Fi audio sound are all caused by the surface-mount caps placed on bottom of the hybrid IC board. Repairs are always costly, and they will eventually fail again shortly in the future, due to poor design. They overheated most of the time due to poor ventilation, so the surface-mount caps dried up faster than normal.
This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.

As for the later SVHS JVCs (1998-2004), they seem to be reliable although they all seem to be cursed with poor Hi-Fi and EP tape tracking. The DVHS units don't seem to suffer from these problems thankfully. The only problem deck is the HM-DH30000U. Like most JVC products of that era, it suffers from faulty caps from the factory.

For pro equipment, I'd stick with Panny over JVC. In high school TV class, thats all they used and we beat the living crap out of it. Just try killing a pair of AG-6500s with the AG-A750 editor. They had a nice A-B roll setup with 2xAG-DS545s, an AG-DS555, a AG-A850 editor, and a WJ-MX50 mixer. Don't know how that held up, but it seemed just as solid as the 80s gear.
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by N2IXK View Post
I replaced a LOT of idlers on Fisher decks, too. Particularly this guy:



The Hitachi/RCA idler (RCA #164113--isn't it scary how some of these numbers stick with you even 25 years later?) was another "fast mover", but at least it was designed in such a way that it could be swapped out in seconds with no tools. One shop I worked at had a tech who had small enough hands that he could reach in through the front-load door and swap those idlers out without even taking the cover off...
I stocked these parts for years. Also, belt kits for them.

Those were the days.
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  #23  
Old 05-08-2012, 01:03 AM
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Sad to see RCA so low on the list. My Dad bought at least 2 Selectavision VCRs circa 1984, and we used them for over 15 years, throwing them out in still-working condition.

It isn't the age they had on them that is so impressive, but rather the miles. Dad dubbed videos (legally selling/trading public domain stuff) and we had a library of 5-7 thousand VHS tapes-most of them having run through those two decks! The only problem we ever had on them was a lightning strike took out both displays, and we used them for years without the display.

That ended in about 1990 when we casually mentioned them to a guy who repaired VCRs, and his eyes got all wide and he said he could get a pair of repair kits for cheap and just snap them right in! Good to his word, we had "like new" VCRs a few days later, and it became my first VHS deck, my brother getting the other.
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  #24  
Old 05-08-2012, 01:09 AM
waltchan waltchan is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
My Panasonic PV-4022 VCR has been working flawlessly since I purchased it new in 2002. Since getting a DVD player (now have a Blu-ray), however, the Panasonic VCR doesn't get much use except for occasionally viewing old VHS tapes (and I mean old; many if not most of the VHS cassettes in my collection, except four about a half-dozen professionally recorded ones, have old TV shows and movies on them, and the tapes are now close to if not over twenty years old -- they still work like new).
It's possible for some newer, modern VCRs made after 2000 that lasts just as long as the ones made 15 years before. Newer, modern VCRs have eliminated a loading belt (except Funai) and are more simple-designed. They are also more energy-efficient than before, so the power supply will run cooler, and the caps will be harder to dry up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
Panasonic VCRs, TVs, etc. have a reputation for longevity, at least the older ones did. One ad for Panasonic from several years ago (which I saw online -- it may still be on Panasonic's website) states, "How about that TV or VCR that just won't die? Probably a Panasonic."
Really true, although I am always skeptical with Panasonic's construction material quality. Back in 1984 when Panasonic decided to use a switching power supply, the weight of the unit reduced by about 30-40% overall from last year's 1983 models, due to a lighter-weight power supply. A switching power supply, generally, cost less to produce than a linear power supply, and they fail more often.

Panasonic got even worse and really cut-corners in production quality beginning with the 1988 models (G-chassis decks and AG Pro-Line models), and they failed to realize they would have reliability problems in the long-run. Panasonic's goal was to shrink all their VCR models to make them really compact-looking and lightweight. But they came at a huge cost. To make them smaller, lighter, and more compact, Panasonic was forced to put in a bunch of surface-mount caps placed on the video board and audio board, which usually had short-lifespan. Panasonic also used the smallest-looking, regular-caps they could find, again, they had shorter-lifespan than the larger, regular-sized caps. Most of the small caps were NOT Hi-Temp rated, and failures typically showed up quick after 5-6 years. They overheated most of the time, due to poor ventilation and tight-space, so the caps dried up faster than average time. It's possible to have a G-chassis Panasonic deck with hundreds of caps reading all bad (I've seen one before).

Construction quality has improved after 2000, and worries of electronic-aging issues have become less of a concern, due to improved ventilation and newer Panasonic products becoming more energy-efficient with cooler-running power supply. Today, Panasonic has built more products that weight heavier and bigger than many other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffhs View Post
However, I don't know if today's Panasonic video gear, TVs, etc. can be expected to last as long without repairs as the earlier, older units did. My Panny VCR is ten years old and still works, as I stated above, although the auto clock set does not work since the DTV transition. I find that odd and puzzling, as I can still get my area's PBS channels as NTSC analog on my cable. Perhaps Cleveland's PBS station, for whatever reason, dropped the extended-data (XDS) signal that operates the auto clock set feature in Panny, et al. VCRs.
The new Panasonic products are just as reliable, if not even better, than the ones made several years ago. Some, proven and reliable new Panasonic products today with mostly positive reviews and minimal problems reported are the LCD/LED TV, car stereo, cordless phone, fax machine, copier, printer, rice cooker, beard shaver, air conditioner, and microwave oven. Plasma TV, DVD recorder, Blu-Ray player, and DVD player are all so-so, and I wouldn't consider them to be ultra-reliable.
.

Last edited by waltchan; 05-08-2012 at 01:44 AM.
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  #25  
Old 05-08-2012, 01:27 AM
waltchan waltchan is offline
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Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
This is the problem that plagues the last of the line Panasonic AG-1980 (built 1996 to 2001, K-chassis). Does replacing the caps with higher temp rated electrolytic or even tantalum caps solve the issues? Its only a matter of time until my 1980 starts acting up, and I'm not looking forward to taking that beast apart. Its already got a dim VFD.
Any caps that are higher-temp rated are always better and longer lasting than the standard ones. Assuming the Panasonic AG-1980 you have has no picture, you will need to replace all the surface-mount caps placed on the hybrid IC board.
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  #26  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:08 AM
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Tony75 Tony75 is offline
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My experience with Panasonic machines likewise is quite mixed, the early ones with the D-Deck (branded National here) with linear power supplies were very solid and will last forever just with rubber changes. G decks had one motor to do all the loading, reel and capstan driving, this put a lot of strain on the clutch, genuine part replacement was the only cure. Of course the switching power supplies were not that reliable. The later K deck was interesting as it upped the motor count (i think) making the clutch far more reliable. What I really noticed about these was the engineering. They were very reliable and well performing until something went wrong, then basically everything went wrong at the same time or shortly after the last thing was fixed, good quality control really. What it did mean that though, coupled with Panasonic's exorbitant parts prices these machines were almost always an economic write off. I refuse to repair any now apart from the D decks.
Have to agree that the old Funai (mostly badged Teac) here from late 80's were very solid. They went unbelievably downhill in the 90s of course. These older Funais are showing lots of issues now with dried grease but they can be brought back to life, just not economically.
JVC has often been a mixed bag, but my machine, an HR-J200 bought in the mid 90's just keeps going and going and gets a lot of use.
One brand that we get a lot of here that does not make the list is Akai, up until the late 90's they made their own machines. The early ones are quite amazing, some are quite cantankerous too. The later units for this time frame (up to 1993) seem to be holding up well generally without too many catastrophic failures.
Been experimenting with an old Daewoo from the late 80s for a few years now, very solid and surprisingly reliable, like the Panasonics it has a very solid cast alloy chassis. A far cry from some of their later decks, such as ones badged NEC in the early 90s. They did lift their game for their last chassis design, but it did chew through belts.
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  #27  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:41 AM
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Ed in Tx Ed in Tx is offline
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Originally Posted by Tony75 View Post
..
One brand that we get a lot of here that does not make the list is Akai...
Ah yes I remember working on those Akai portable VCRs and cameras from the early '80s. We were an authorized service center for Akai. Model 7350 seems to ring a bell. Was stereo too! I think one of the first stereo VCRs. Linear stereo though, split the narrow mono track into two really narrow stereo not very good audio tracks. Like the Panasonic PV-6000 portable I had for a while. I recall an Akai VCR that was a rebadged JVC (top-loader JVC HR-7300?) about the same time frame.

Last edited by Ed in Tx; 05-08-2012 at 08:44 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by holmesuser01 View Post
I stocked these parts for years. Also, belt kits for them.

Those were the days.
And the idler pulley ass'y too. Many of those.
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  #29  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:02 AM
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holmesuser01 holmesuser01 is offline
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Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
And the idler pulley ass'y too. Many of those.
I could go to the shed and find a few of these if I look for a minute...

Speaking of Akai VCR's...

I had one for a time that had a built in audio amplifier with speaker connections. I used it for a tweeter set-up on my TV for years. It got retired (haw haw) after the idler tire died, and I had nothing on hand to replace it. By then, Akai didnt want to know me for parts.

Speaking of Fisher VCR's I had a Fisher FVH-840 unit that ran for over 10 years, with a yearly replacement of the idler and clutches and belts. It ate a friends cherished tape once, and my friend has never let me forget it.

I bought this Fisher because it was Hi-Fi, and also had linear stereo, too. A local radio station came through the AFM circuitry loud and clear during the day, and was silent when they powered down at night. When I moved back to NC, there were no issues.

Bought an FVH-950 to replace the other Fisher. It lasted 1 year and 5 months before it simply died. I was hating Fisher at that point, so I bought a Sony with a flying erase head. It's still here today, with minor repairs.
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  #30  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:34 AM
waltchan waltchan is offline
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Originally Posted by Ed in Tx View Post
Ah yes I remember working on those Akai portable VCRs and cameras from the early '80s. We were an authorized service center for Akai. Model 7350 seems to ring a bell. Was stereo too! I think one of the first stereo VCRs. Linear stereo though, split the narrow mono track into two really narrow stereo not very good audio tracks. Like the Panasonic PV-6000 portable I had for a while. I recall an Akai VCR that was a rebadged JVC (top-loader JVC HR-7300?) about the same time frame.
I wonder where Akai's reliability rating should be ranked at? Consumer Reports had no data for Akai VCRs.
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