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  #61  
Old 06-25-2007, 05:43 PM
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OvenMaster OvenMaster is offline
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I've finally figured out precisely what I want. It's just a matter of finding it. I want one box that will do the following:
*Have an HDTV tuner that will receive digital signals. 480i will be fine.
*Record those HDTV signals without a broadcast flag onto rewriteable discs; in essence, a DVD based VCR
*Have a built-in RF modulator to play back the signal in analog NTSC on channel 4
*Cost less than $100
My family has three fine analog NTSC television sets. I cannot afford new ones, and a $40 tuner box will not help me one bit in timeshifting and archiving off-air programming unless the output is useable for standard VCRs, of which I have three also. I do not have cable TV, but a mast-mounted outdoor antenna that is also used for FM. I refuse to pay to watch television. I am also in no hurry whatsoever to pay for new television sets when the ones I have work just fine.

I gave up "appointment TV" back in 1989 when I got my first VCR. For me, the ability to record off-air is vital; if I can't do what I've been doing since then, I will be one very unhappy camper.

Simply put, if there are too many roadblocks in my path, I will indeed use my television sets for pre-recorded shows and nothing else. Most American television is garbage anyway, and I can get news, entertainment, and information from books, radio, newspapers, and the Internet.

Call me a Luddite if you want to, but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
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Last edited by OvenMaster; 06-25-2007 at 05:47 PM.
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  #62  
Old 06-25-2007, 07:05 PM
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Whirled One Whirled One is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvenMaster View Post
I've finally figured out precisely what I want. It's just a matter of finding it. I want one box that will do the following:
*Have an HDTV tuner that will receive digital signals. 480i will be fine.
*Record those HDTV signals without a broadcast flag onto rewriteable discs; in essence, a DVD based VCR
*Have a built-in RF modulator to play back the signal in analog NTSC on channel 4
*Cost less than $100
Okay, you'll have to add your own RF modulator and it costs $179.99 right now (though wait a year or two and you'll probably hit the $100 price point for something similar), but here ya go:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4156935

[for those who don't want to click, it's a Panasonic DMR-EZ17K DVD Player and Recorder, selected because it happens to be the least-expensive DVD recorder with a built-in ATSC tuner that happens to currently be offered on the J&R web site] Yer on yer own regarding the "broadcast flag" though.
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  #63  
Old 06-25-2007, 07:25 PM
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Just what the doctor ordered. At least they're out there; local TV salespeople don't even know what I'm talking about. I always had good luck with Panasonic VCRs and TVs, too. Thankyew.
Tom
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  #64  
Old 06-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis View Post
I agree. It was too good to pass up, what with component input and such. Once the little set is adjusted (factory contrast is set at 90 percent!) it reminds me of the similar small-size trinitrons. Bright, contrasty, and impressive. BTW, the sensitivity of the ATSC tuner appears to be superior to earlier RCA HDTV's.

Okay, curiosity got the best of me, and I plunked down my $119 for one of these li'l sets. It's an RCA 14F514T built in March 2007. When I got it home it occurred to me that this is the first color TV I've bought *new* since the 25" Zenith I got in 1993. Er, actually, come to think of it, that's the *only* other color TV I've ever bought new (that wasn't a gift for someone else, at least).

Anyhoo, I've only made a quick informal check of it at this point, but so far I think it is actually fairly impressive from a price/performance standpoint. Now, I'll point out that this is the first digital set I've had any experience with, so I don't have anything to compare it with, but I'd say I'm pretty pleased with its reception of OTA digital signals. After all the "horror stories" I've heard about how bad digital reception is, I didn't have very high expectations in that regard, but I gotta say, the local digital channels come in nicely enough even with an ordinary VHF/UHF indoor antenna (with a plain UHF loop), but more stably with an old-style RadioShack twin-bowtie-with-reflector UHF indoor antenna. Compared with analog, it is rather disconcerting when the signal momentarily falls below the set's threshold and suddenly "drops out", but that mostly seems to be sensitive to proper antenna orientation. OTA digital reception looks very nice indeed. As Pete says, the factory default for contrast is set too high, but when set up correctly, picture quality with a good source is definitely not too shabby at all for a "standard-def" TV in this size. This set also apparently has a built-in QAM tuner for (unscrambled) digital cable, but I don't have digital cable.

Sadly, by comparison, its NTSC tuner has poor sensitivity. It's probably okay for analog cable (though I haven't tried it on cable yet), but for OTA use it's definitely sub-par to say the least.

The automatic channel set-up process appears to be well designed, and automatically searches all bands for both analog and digital channels.

Perhaps this weekend, I'll see if I can arrange a comparision "shoot out" between this quite-possibly-last-generation 14" CRT set and the other small-screen color sets I've got around here just to see what this thing can do when put up against some competition.

Oh, BTW, one bit of "keeping old trademarks active" I spotted on this TV is that the jack panel on the back sports the old "meatball" round RCA logo. It's small, but it's there. Gee, I wonder if any of the other current RCA-branded TVs still have the old "Victor" logo somewhere, just to keep that trademark active too?
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  #65  
Old 06-25-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvenMaster View Post
Just what the doctor ordered. At least they're out there; local TV salespeople don't even know what I'm talking about. I always had good luck with Panasonic VCRs and TVs, too. Thankyew.
I originally wasn't going to mention this (because I didn't want it to sound too much like a commercial... ), but it so happens that I bought a Panasonic set-top DVD recorder back when they were still pretty "gee-whiz", and I've been very happy with it. It just runs like a champ. ...And I know exactly what you mean, as I've long watched most of my "live TV" using a video (either tape or DVD) recorder as a timeshifting/archival device.

Anyway, I was pleasantly suprised that it was actually a Panasonic that happened to be the lowest-cost option in that category when I checked that particular web site (note: the choice of J&R was just because they generally have a broad selection of consumer electronics products; not a specific endorsement thereof)
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  #66  
Old 06-26-2007, 06:46 AM
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For $189 at Wal-Mart you can get a Magnavox VCR/DVD Recorder ATSC Tuner combo. You still have to use a modulator for analog TV output. It works great, will accept front panel input from camera, video game, etc. You can schedule recording to rewritable DVD just like a VCR. You can also dub between the VHS and DVD in either direction. It is what I am feeding my Zenith roundie with now. I highly recommend it.
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  #67  
Old 06-26-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by compucat View Post
That's wasteful. I won't buy I set I can't service. I wonder how serviceable the typical LCD set is going to be.
Ive actually replaced a backlight on an LCD panel that took a spill off a table before. Most computer stores sell cold cathode lamps that gamers use to illuminate their fancy computer cases. These lamps are pretty similar ones to the ones used in the backlights of LCD panels. All i did is remove the fragile glass lamp from the colored plastic tube and solder it to the inverter board. Once I put it back together, you couldn't tell the difference.

http://microcenter.com/single_produc...uct_id=0248872
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  #68  
Old 06-26-2007, 07:51 PM
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Kiwick Kiwick is offline
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About LCD durability... just 50k hours for the backlights and the LCD panel is subject to aging, some are showing dead pixels or lines or a sort of cataract after a few years,

The high voltage inverters used to power the backlights are prone to failure and are virtually impossible to repair, you will need to get a new one,then you'll likely find out that you can't get a new inverter for your 5 yrs old LCD and you need to scrap the whole thing.

I don't think anyone coluld even dream about fixing a bad LCD signal board...

That's the digital revolution for you... it's all about crappy disposable miniaturized SMD cards, flimsy flat wires, junky chinese chipsets, brittle silver painted plastic cabinets and so on... nothing that fits in my home...

Francesco
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  #69  
Old 06-27-2007, 01:17 PM
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The "digital revolution"

While countries like the USA and Germany are still far behind their original schedules for full implementation of digital TV, the brazilian government, led by the drunk-in-charge Mister Lula da Silva seems to be in a very strange hurry to make Brazil jump quicly in the digital bandwagon. Digital transmissions will begin in December, but it seems that very few people will be able to receive the signals. The gang called "brazilian government" set a few years ago a completely irrealistic goal of having digital converters for sale for US$ 100.00 by the time of the beggining of the transmissions. Now it's clear that, at least on the beggining, those converters will not cost less than US$ 800.00 . The answer of the idiots that run this country is simple: the brazilian industry must be "punished" for it's "incompetence" , and the way to "punish" the industry is by massive imports of converters ... made in China.

I hate to have to say it about my own country, but, it seems that Charles De Gaulle once said: "Brazil is not a serious country" , and I have to agree. The government told us that the brazilian standard of digital TV was unique in the world, so how the hell the chinese have the know-how to produce millions of converters on that standard? I thought that this information was very well kept under secrecy by the government and the brazilian industry. If this were a serious country, a press and congressional investigation would be under way to find out how the chinese know something that only the brazilians and the japanese ( who helped us creating that standard ) were supposed to know.

Today the chinese will produce converters, tomorrow...they will produce TV sets on that standard, and that will be the end of the almost 70-year History of the brazilian electronic industry. We will disappear in the same way the american electronic industry disapeared - crushed by cheap, low quality Asian imports.

Welcome to the 21ist Century.
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  #70  
Old 06-27-2007, 05:57 PM
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$95.00 ATSC Wal-Mart TV, Yeah, right

NOTICE ALL STORES- OUT OF STOCK 6/27/07
Check In-Store Availability

Durabrand 13" Tube TV w/ Digital Tuner, DTV1307
Model #: DTV1307
Price may vary by location. See our pricing policy for details.
Search Results
We found 5 stores near Miami, FL that carry this item. (Item availability status is approximate and updated every 24 hours.)

Sort by: Availability City Name Distance
StoreDistanceAvailabilityMiami
Wal-Mart# 2091
8651 N.W. 13Th Terrace
Miami, FL 33126
(305) 470-45108.87 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockHialeah Gardens
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 2814
9300 N.W. 77Th Avenue
Hialeah Gardens, FL 33016
(305) 819-06729.93 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockNorth Miami Beach
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 3235
1425 Northeast 163Rd Street
North Miami Beach, FL 33162
(305) 949-588110.63 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockMiami Gardens
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 3397
17650 Norhwest 2Nd Ave.
Miami Gardens, FL 33169
(305) 651-466111.1 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of StockHialeah
Wal-Mart Supercenter# 1590
5851 N.W. 177Th St.
Hialeah, FL 33015
(305) 558-606912.64 miles
View Map & DetailsOut of Stock
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  #71  
Old 06-27-2007, 09:11 PM
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Pete Deksnis Pete Deksnis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard D View Post
NOTICE ALL STORES- OUT OF STOCK 6/27/07
Check In-Store Availability
Hay Richard, I don't care how I spend your money so why not spring for an RCA 14F514T like Whirled One and me. It's only $119.
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  #72  
Old 06-28-2007, 12:30 AM
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Gianni Gianni is offline
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwick View Post
About LCD durability... just 50k hours for the backlights and the LCD panel is subject to aging, some are showing dead pixels or lines or a sort of cataract after a few years,

The high voltage inverters used to power the backlights are prone to failure and are virtually impossible to repair, you will need to get a new one,then you'll likely find out that you can't get a new inverter for your 5 yrs old LCD and you need to scrap the whole thing.

I don't think anyone coluld even dream about fixing a bad LCD signal board...

That's the digital revolution for you... it's all about crappy disposable miniaturized SMD cards, flimsy flat wires, junky chinese chipsets, brittle silver painted plastic cabinets and so on... nothing that fits in my home...

Francesco
Hi horseman!
Actually, in my opinion, LCDs are good devices for computers, but LCD in my Compaq Presario laptop from 2004 is not so bright than a new one...

But...
Is there an high voltage device in it?
There are only some LEDs, i think.
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Last edited by Gianni; 06-28-2007 at 12:43 AM. Reason: Grammar ( i hope... )
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  #73  
Old 06-28-2007, 12:49 AM
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wa2ise wa2ise is offline
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Speaking of digital TV and CRT displays, I'm using a VGA monitor with a screen with viewable area that measures 19" diagional, and an ATSC Samsung tuner. Looks really good. I might house all this in that empty CTC19 cabinet I have around here.... To create a console HDTV set
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  #74  
Old 06-28-2007, 04:31 AM
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Kiwick Kiwick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianni View Post
Hi horseman!
Actually, in my opinion, LCDs are good devices for computers, but LCD in my Compaq Presario laptop from 2004 is not so bright than a new one...

But...
Is there an high voltage device in it?
There are only some LEDs, i think.
Yes, there's a high voltage generator (the inverter) to feed about 2kv to a cold cathode fluorescent lamp, that's basically a tiny neon sign tube...

Laptop computers usually have just one lamp, monitors and TVs usually have two.

LED backlights are used only in smaller LCD screens such as cellphones or digital cameras

Francesco
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  #75  
Old 06-28-2007, 08:30 AM
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Richard D Richard D is offline
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Unhappy When I buy atsc TVs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Deksnis View Post
Hay Richard, I don't care how I spend your money so why not spring for an RCA 14F514T like Whirled One and me. It's only $119.
Hi Pete, I was not complaining about the price for the ATSC TV, just the fact that they advertise that all the Florida stores will have plenty of stock by the begining of June and you see that not one store in the South Florida area has one. I am going to keep the four sets I have until after the analog cutoff then get my one "free" converter from Comcast for the large Mitsu CRT rear projection that still has an excellent picture after 9 years with no service, no several hundred dollar replacement lamp, no color wheel motor, no "wobbulation" to make the micro-mirrors act like they are pointing in two places at once, no micro-mirrors, no cold cathode light tubes. When it dies then I will buy a "modern large scren. Yeah I am old fashioned and I like it! I know I am beating a dead format but when color came around it was backward compatible with monochrome
sets and I feel that should apply to digital and HD. BAH, HUMBUG.
Richard
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