Need Good OTA in New TV

[loopstick]

Hi everybody, up to now have been using old analog CRT with Zenith DTT901 converter (Aug. 2008). Here's the antenna (Winegard HD7084). Good terrain gives me the Buffalo and Rochester markets, and seasonal reach into Toronto (summer) and Syracuse (winter).



I don't have satellite or cable, 100% OTA. I'm looking for new LED TV that has DX-friendly tuner, i.e., it's fun to sweep the horizon and locate new stations, cool interface / interaction, nerdy features that help you build up your channel list. Also looking for stability and resistance to dropouts. Also if possible audio outputs that can connect to stereo gear. Thanks in advance!

____________

[dtvmcdonald]

good luck on DXing features ... set manufacturers REALLY hate such things.
They LOVE required scanning with no way to add channels.

For Dxing I suggest finding a used spectrum analyzer that can
be hooked up to the antenna in parallel with a TV.

That way you instantly see if anything is there at a given azimuth. That's
what I do.

[Electronic M]

If you don't mind SD DXing you could always get a set with composite video/stereo audio in, and hook your current Zenith DTV box up. Those Zenith DTV boxes are pretty decent units for DXing.

[loopstick]

Originally Posted by dtvmcdonald

good luck on DXing features ... set manufacturers REALLY hate such things.
They LOVE required scanning with no way to add channels.

For Dxing I suggest finding a used spectrum analyzer that can
be hooked up to the antenna in parallel with a TV.

That way you instantly see if anything is there at a given azimuth. That's
what I do.

Interesting, the last time I looked into this stuff was 2008 right before the switchover (US) to DTV. Somebody online posted some pix of this spectrum-analyzer like graphic on his TV screen. He was either using a menu item from a digital TV or a converter. If it was a converter it was high-end and not on the coupon list (otherwise I would have gotten it).

Maybe now years after the conversion the manufacturers prefer KISS functionality and don't put nerdy features in that might have been useful during the conversion era. That would be a shame because I thought this would be an opportunity to take advantage of whatever improvements have occurred in features, algorithms, chip-sets, firmware, blah blah blah, in the past seven years. I'm still keeping the Zenith DTT901 because TIVO needs it.

[loopstick]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

If you don't mind SD DXing you could always get a set with composite video/stereo audio in, and hook your current Zenith DTV box up. Those Zenith DTV boxes are pretty decent units for DXing.

That's the fallback. I spontaneous bought a 19' LED at WalMart for my security cam (hoping it would be quieter on AM, it seems to be). I liked the picture so I figured I'd upgrade the main TV and perhaps gain some DX capability.

[Electronic M]

Originally Posted by loopstick

I liked the picture so I figured I'd upgrade the main TV and perhaps gain some DX capability.

I'd hang on to that CRT set if it did not fail catastrophically. CRT sets are easier to fix, tend to have better parts availability, and tend to last longer before/between repairs. A fair percent of flat screens don't out live the extended warranty, and often before the end of that warranty non-generic parts become NLA.

[Jeffhs]

There is still such a thing as television DXing. I live 30 miles from Cleveland, within a mile of Lake Erie. Using just an indoor DTV antenna, I can receive stations from Detroit with excellent pictures when the conditions are right.

TV DXing is not what it once was; that is, now we must scan through every channel our HDTVs receive in order to find distant stations, since, as was noted, most DTV tuners do not allow for manual keypad entry (from the remote) of individual stations to scan lists--you must accept what the tuner finds, then delete unwanted channels as needed. (All DTVs do allow entry of any receivable channel in a given area via the remote's keypad; I am referring to adding or deleting channels to or from the scan list using the keypad.)

It would be nice if DTV tuners did have a manual channel scan list entry mode; perhaps in a few years the design of these tuners may be improved enough so that the tuners not only allow for manual channel entry to a scan list, but are sensitive enough that the TVs in which they are installed may be used for OTA reception in any signal area. As it stands today, unfortunately, some HDTVs, especially some of the cheap no-name makes (e. g. Polaroid, Craig, etc.), have tuners that do not work well at all for OTA in anything other than very strong to near-suburban reception areas; they may have issues with receiving cable signals as well.

[loopstick]

Originally Posted by Electronic M

I'd hang on to that CRT set if it did not fail catastrophically. CRT sets are easier to fix, tend to have better parts availability, and tend to last longer before/between repairs. A fair percent of flat screens don't out live the extended warranty, and often before the end of that warranty non-generic parts become NLA.

Oops. I forced the issue by e-wasting it earlier today. I can probably get it back next Saturday, the trailer was pretty empty.

Originally Posted by Jeffhs

There is still such a thing as television DXing. I live 30 miles from Cleveland, within a mile of Lake Erie. Using just an indoor DTV antenna, I can receive stations from Detroit with excellent pictures when the conditions are right.

TV DXing is not what it once was; that is, now we must scan through every channel our HDTVs receive in order to find distant stations, since, as was noted, most DTV tuners do not allow for manual keypad entry (from the remote) of individual stations to scan lists--you must accept what the tuner finds, then delete unwanted channels as needed. (All DTVs do allow entry of any receivable channel in a given area via the remote's keypad; I am referring to adding or deleting channels to or from the scan list using the keypad.)

It would be nice if DTV tuners did have a manual channel scan list entry mode; perhaps in a few years the design of these tuners may be improved enough so that the tuners not only allow for manual channel entry to a scan list, but are sensitive enough that the TVs in which they are installed may be used for OTA reception in any signal area. As it stands today, unfortunately, some HDTVs, especially some of the cheap no-name makes (e. g. Polaroid, Craig, etc.), have tuners that do not work well at all for OTA in anything other than very strong to near-suburban reception areas; they may have issues with receiving cable signals as well.

A few years ago I got channel 2 North Platte from here in western NY, (almost 1200 miles away as crow flies). Same thing happened the following summer. Same network as Buffalo's channel 2 so I didn't notice anything until commercials. I'm getting concerned that I might already have the technology and it peaked in 2008:



The Zenith and DigitalStream allow you to put in "RF" channels and the Zenith displays signal strength of whatever is there. The RCA seems pretty stable against dropouts, the Pal Plus has great prog guide but it gets upset and paralyzed if you move the antenna and it can't find previously-found channels. It also has huge lag when you switch channels. I think the Zenith is "LG" so maybe "LG" DTV's have decent tuners?

________________

[Electronic M]

The Zenith is a Zenith; they designed the tech and the box. LG now owns what is left of Zenith, so if they are still using the designs in that box in their TV they may be a good brand to try.

[loopstick]

I've been searching around on the net and this started out pretty promising but even a guy who knows this stuff kinda ran out of steam regarding what's in ATSC technology post-conversion:

What is the Current State of ATSC Tuner Development? (5-13-2013)

[Username1]

The Zenith and LG coupon DTV boxes are both the same unit, and they are both very
good units.....

And if DXing is what you want, then a spectrum analyzer is the way to go, I have one,
and when I was getting nothing here, I used it to point my antenna, and find the channels
I was going after....

Since OTA is the least popular way to get tv these days, and few people actually
fight to get a good signal, I think the tv manufacturers don't feel the need to
advertise sensitivity, or design for high sensitivity as a goal.... For that info,
you will have to search these and other forums.... Also in your mix look for
a good antenna, and pre-amp, distribution amp configuration, this will make up
for shortfalls in tv tuner design in some cases...

.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by loopstick

I'm looking for new LED TV that has DX-friendly tuner

Buy an LG TV set.

LG sets, unlike all other brands except maybe Sony to some degree, allow you to "blindly" enter channel numbers without doing a "channel scan" first. They also allow you to manually put channel numbers into your saved list, so you can be ready if signals appear later. They also likely have among the best-performing tuners, since LG and its predecessor Zenith have done most of the ongoing development of ATSC tuner technology.

You may want to download owner's manuals for various TV sets to look at the menu functions if they are shown.

Update: After posting this, I noticed that the site itself automatically converted the terms "LG" and "Sony" into links to things for sale on Amazon. I did not do that, and I have no business interest in LG or any other equipment.

[Username1]

I got curious about current OTA stand alone tuners, found they are still selling
relatively inexpensive little boxes on amazon, and I bet other places too, and if you
read down at the bottom they say something in the reviews about a more sensitive
tuner....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GY0UB54/...ing=UTF8&psc=1

The one above made by SiliconDust - a really catchy name that inspires confidence in
superior performance is well rated, and now there are a few like this one that has
several tuners built in. This has 2 and networks the show all over the house, and some
have DVR's built in.... WOW I didn't know this stuff was out there for $50 - $150.
In one review for a SiliconDust model, they even say it performs better than the tuner built
into their new flat screen....

Here's a bunch of em'

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st?ke...rt=review-rank

Anyone have experience with any of these boxes.... Like the siliconDust cheaper models...?
I might be interested in one to test if they are really being made with tuners that work
a little better than my Zenith/Insignia Coupon DTV converters..... Which I like a lot...


.

[jr_tech]

Originally Posted by Username1

And if DXing is what you want, then a spectrum analyzer is the way to go, I have one,
and when I was getting nothing here, I used it to point my antenna, and find the channels
I was going after....

If you are interested only in detecting the DX transmitter rather than trying to watch a program that is a good way to go! I use a slightly different approach, an Icom 8500 communications receiver that I can tune to VHF or UHF frequencies. I put the receiver in "cw" mode and look for the DTV "reference carrier" approx 0.310* mHz above the lower edge of the assigned channel frequency.
Example... ch 12 is assigned 204 to 210 mHz... I hear a nice tone at 204.310 mHz. Using this method, I can find stations that are not showing any signal strength on my DX-friendly Zenith box.

jr

* 0.309440559 mHz

[loopstick]

Originally Posted by Username1

I got curious about current OTA stand alone tuners, found they are still selling
relatively inexpensive little boxes on amazon, and I bet other places too, and if you
read down at the bottom they say something in the reviews about a more sensitive
tuner....

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GY0UB54/...ing=UTF8&psc=1

The one above made by SiliconDust - a really catchy name that inspires confidence in
superior performance is well rated, and now there are a few like this one that has
several tuners built in. This has 2 and networks the show all over the house, and some
have DVR's built in.... WOW I didn't know this stuff was out there for $50 - $150.
In one review for a SiliconDust model, they even say it performs better than the tuner built
into their new flat screen....

Here's a bunch of em'

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st?ke...rt=review-rank

Anyone have experience with any of these boxes.... Like the siliconDust cheaper models...?
I might be interested in one to test if they are really being made with tuners that work
a little better than my Zenith/Insignia Coupon DTV converters..... Which I like a lot...


.

Interesting, always new stuff to learn. At the moment my DVR is old TiVo Series I which does a great free job of recording analog off the CH 3 out of my CECB. So maybe I upgrade to LG LED TV, hope for the best, and get something like these newer boxes so I can record in HD and maybe get improved OTA performance / functionality.