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  #1  
Old 08-21-2005, 11:11 AM
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Bonanza on TV land

Somehow watching the early Bonanze episodes on TV land doesnt bring out the same oh-wow feel as it did when they were originally broadcast, althought the storylines are always good, somehow I remember a much better rendition on NBC. I guess I'm just getting old.
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:17 AM
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I agree. The episodes seem campy now.However back in the 60s you couldn't pry me away from the tv on Sundays at 10pm.
Remember High Chapparel? That was a great western.I also watched Wagon Train.Those were the days.No stinkin reality TV back then

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Old 08-21-2005, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtvman
Somehow watching the early Bonanze episodes on TV land doesnt bring out the same oh-wow feel as it did when they were originally broadcast, althought the storylines are always good, somehow I remember a much better rendition on NBC. I guess I'm just getting old.
Well, the old 35mm broadcast prints were processed in real Technicolor. The prints you see today are on boring Eastman color. That makes a BIG difference.
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman
Well, the old 35mm broadcast prints were processed in real Technicolor. The prints you see today are on boring Eastman color. That makes a BIG difference.
Plus you are getting pixelization and loss of resolution on cable and satellite. But then you are also losing the ghosting and other noise you would have had back in the 60's with that analog antenna so maybe it evens out.

Try turning your saturation control up ; )
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Old 08-22-2005, 05:14 AM
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Dollar DVD's...

That same visual impact is also missing from the cheap two-episode DVD's. Maybe when blu-ray or the other HD DVD format becomes a reality later this year, the transfers will improve.
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Old 08-22-2005, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hoffman
Well, the old 35mm broadcast prints were processed in real Technicolor. The prints you see today are on boring Eastman color. That makes a BIG difference.
I hate to think how those great prints looked in a small town NBC station that just got hooked up to ATand T's cross country microwave system 30 or 40 hops out of NY. Oh they just converted their B/W transmitter to pass color and I have one of the first color sets in town and the shop that sold it to me does not really know how to set it up. But I might think anything color looks good just the magic of it at the time.

Our round sets today have a much better picture then they ever did when they were new.
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:44 PM
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I believe those telecines at the time probably used vidicons -
can you say "lag"?
can you say "shading"?
- also quite possibly no matrix between the R,G, and B;

but then again, NBC may have used a "masking" unit (essentially an adjustable color correction matrix) which would improve the color saturation, especially the greens, which are weak in a straight vidicon camera due to effects of the built-in vidicon gamma curve, Actually all colors could be improved to undo most of the reduced saturation in the film. Such a circuit would amplify noise too much to use with live-pickup image orthicon cameras, but could be used with the vidicons when they were getting lots of light.

Attached is Figure 9-44 from Color Televison Standards N.T.S.C, Donald G. Fink, consulting Editor, McGraw-Hill, 1955. It shows the original scene color, the reproduced color (effects of film and telecine), and the reproduced color with masking. This early masking experiment introduced some errors of its own, but you can see that it generally acted to improve color saturation.
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Old 08-23-2005, 07:54 AM
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Red face

Bonanza was processed by Consolidated Film Industries in Los Angeles. Not by Technicolor. They have always been Eastmancolor. Around 1990, Republic Pictures, the owner at the time of Bonanza, had new master prints made from the original Eastman camera negatives, which had faded slightly. They looked vastly better than they had in the past. These were 35mm. The printing negatives were worn out over the years from use and title changes, etc.
Remember when Bonanza went into re-runs, and was retitled "Ponderosa?" I still have some film reels with the name Ponderosa printed on them in white lettering. Nice.

I ran Bonanza in syndication for a number of years on 16mm film prints. They were always a bit reddish, but usually looked very nice on the air.

Now, Bonanza is on digital product and is way-over sharpened up, to me. It almost looks gritty on screen.

As for old TV film cameras, NBC used RCA chains. They needed regular attention, which I'm sure they got when someone complained about the lag issues. I can recall several times when I could see camera registration errors on network films.

Our station used RCA TK-27, and TK-28 film cameras, and TP-66 projectors. These cameras were 'tweeked' weekly. They went out of service in the mid-90's when everything went to tape. I do miss film on TV.

Last edited by holmesuser01; 08-23-2005 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:09 AM
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Back then, the film was run on a projector that was aimed into the film camera thru mirrors. There were usually at least 2 projectors, and a slide projector running through a multiplexer on each camera. Local TV stations got 16mm films until the early 1980's when the distributors started offering the shows on 2" tape, then 1" tape.

Our film cameras were 4-tube models. Red, Blue, and Green, with a monochrome tube for contrasts. They looked very good. I still have video tapes made on them.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:17 AM
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Which versions of the film copies were used to make the 'cheap 2 set dvds"? I.e. when were these actually transferred to digital? I would think they should look pretty darn good if in 1990 they had new master prints made of the Eastman originals. Or did they maybe just transfer some crummier VHS versions they had made before 1990 to make the dvds?
I know one thing, don't watch that newer "The Ponderosa" sequel that was on a couple of years ago if you want to see vibrant "bonanza" type colors, that program was pretty drab and dull looking set-wise. Not a bad show, but then they weren't trying to sell color tv sets : )
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Old 08-25-2005, 07:44 AM
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I've got a Bonanza on a dollar disc. It appears to be a copy of one of the newer camera transfers.

As for Technicolor on TV, The show, "Walt Disney's Wonderful World Of Color" was shot on Technicolor, as were early episodes of Dragnet. Many TV commercials were also supplied to stations in Technicolor. I sure do miss real Technicolor.
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Old 08-25-2005, 08:15 AM
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Natalie Kalmus is smiling on you for that remark, Holmes !...<grin>-Sandy G.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2005, 06:18 PM
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Red face

Back in the '70's, I worked in a TV film department. Once in awhile, we'd get a Technicolor print of an old movie. I was allowed to check films out overnight, and run them at home to 'inspect' them. Got paid for doing it, too!

The Technicolor prints were beautiful most of the time. Once in awhile, we'd get a print that had registration problems.. like a TV with bad convergence. I'd report the film problem to the distributor, and they'd usually reply that they had used this same print for years and years and never had a complaint! Thats what I was paid for. They always sent us another print.

Universal Television had alot of Technicolor prints. So did Warner Bros.

Those prints started going away in the mid 1980's, with the advent of the new Eastman film stock that was called LPP... LPP is a low-fade stock. It seems to be working, as I have several films that were printed in 1983 that still have excellent color. They are LPP. The old film stock that Eastman made would be red by now.

I've heard some Natalie Kalmus stories.

Natalie's husband, Herbert T Kalmus, founded the Technicolor Company.

True IB Technicolor prints do not fade either. Its a totally different way of getting color on film than the way Eastman did it. Vastly superior, IMHO.

Last edited by holmesuser01; 08-25-2005 at 06:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2005, 09:36 PM
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The two disc DVD edition of the 1938 Robin Hood has a documentary on Technicolor and they talk about Natalie Kalmus. It's interesting but the Doc looks like it was transferred from tape and the video quality on it sub par.

The restored Robin Hood however is an absolutely spectacular example of vintage three strip Technicolor!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...v=glance&s=dvd
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2005, 08:09 PM
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I really recommend that documentary for anyone interested in the history of Technicolor -tells about the technology and also about the history of the company and the Kalmuses, who separated/divorced fairly early in the business but were quiet about it, while Natalie managed to insinuate herself into the visual design of nearly every Technicolor film.
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