Philco Roundie on going repair - Videokarma.org TV - Video

southernguy · #1 08-23-2005, 09:18 PM

Hello everybody, new here to the forum, I am currently trying to restore a 1965 Color Philco roundie model # P5450WA , Chassis # 16M91 , Picture Tube # 21FBP22 , Fly 277. The Flyback in the set is bad, Does anybody know where I can purchase a good replacement. I herd that one made by Thordarson is good. Also need information where I can get Capacitors to replace paper capacitors.

thanks,
Bruce

bgadow · #2 08-23-2005, 10:11 PM

Welcome! Nice looking Philco!

Go to moyerelectronics.com. Get their email address & write them with your needs, they will reply very soon letting you know what they have. Many of us on the TV forums have bought from them & are very happy. Yes, I think in general the Thordarson flybacks are the best replacements.

Good places to find caps are radiodaze.com or justradios.com. There are a number of others. Not sure if Moyers carries the caps you need? Shouldn't be too many paper caps in that beast, I wouldn't think.

holmesuser01 · #3 08-23-2005, 10:15 PM

Is there a safety glass on that kine? Seems awfully light for some reason to me...

Havent seen a Philco set in 25 years. We used to have alot of them come thru our shops with fried flybacks. I do remember that much.

Chad Hauris · #4 08-24-2005, 11:53 AM

www.justradios.com is where we buy most of our caps. We go through a lot of caps and have found their caps to be of good quality and price.

Most of the caps in tv sets of this age I have seen are mylar or ceramic and still OK. If it has a maroon or orange case and leads coming from the bottom it is most likely mylar...have seen bad electrolytics in this age of set though.

southernguy · #5 08-24-2005, 01:59 PM

Thanks for info everybody, the picture tube in the set is not the original tube, it was replaced in the 1970's with one that did not require a safety glass, I think not sure

Steve D. · #6 08-24-2005, 07:24 PM

Hey Bruce,

Nice Philco roundie. I believe your model 16M91 is a 1966 set. I'm a little confused. Did your Philco originally have a 21FBP22 picture tube? Or does it now have a later tube? Also the 21FB did not have a bonded faceplate and required a safety glass. Your posted picture looks to have an unbonded picture tube.

-Steve D.

southernguy · #7 08-24-2005, 09:44 PM

The original would of been a 21FJP22. I think.

***Eric H*** · #8 08-24-2005, 11:49 PM

In the 70's there were rebuilders removing the bonded face and putting a metal band around the outer edge of the tube, this supposedly would prevent the glass from going everywhere in the event of breakage.
I never tested this theory.

frenchy · #9 08-25-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric H

In the 70's there were rebuilders removing the bonded face and putting a metal band around the outer edge of the tube, this supposedly would prevent the glass from going everywhere in the event of breakage.
I never tested this theory.

So how was that supposed to work? If the face became shattered, then the band would then pull in on the weak outer 'side' of the tube and sort of collapse it in too, instead of just the tube's face going in by itself and bouncing right off the back and into one's face? More of a complete implosion than just the front screen. Sounds logical I guess but boy can you imagine having one of these sets and you see your 3-year-old rapping on the screen with one of his toy hammers?! Yikes!
I could believe it working more if the circumference was also wrapped in plastic taping or something so it would hold together like the cemented faceplates did. Otherwise it's still just glass shards everywhere, just more of them.

domfjbrown · #10 08-25-2005, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchy

So how was that supposed to work? If the face became shattered, then the band would then pull in on the weak outer 'side' of the tube and sort of collapse it in too, instead of just the tube's face going in by itself and bouncing right off the back and into one's face?

On more-modern square(ish) CRTs from the 70s on, the rimband certainly seems to work if you're belting a breezeblock or hammer through the screen (mis-spent youth speaking here!) - all the glass'd stay inside the case of the TV, and the shattered remains of the shadowmask/rimband'd be in the case too:

OK, so it's a b&w portable, and the glass is MORE intact than on the 25inch colour tellies we bust at school, but you get the idea. My nefarious mate Rob did that portable, and here he is again with my old monitor:

Obviously the implosion protection isn't infallible:

Not big, not clever, but THAT breaking glass really IS an interesting sound... At least all the tellies that died at our hands were junker/broken modern plastic POSs...

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchy

can you imagine having one of these sets and you see your 3-year-old rapping on the screen with one of his toy hammers?!

I think the term "bonk bonk bonk BONNNNGGGGGSKLAASSSSH!" would ring a bell. Not funny!

vintagecollect · #11 08-25-2005, 01:34 PM

Check CRT and verify if safety glass should be installed. I would not trust only a metal band as safety device for an older CRT. The risk is too great not to have Safet Glass!!!!!

Chad Hauris · #12 08-25-2005, 01:58 PM

I have 2 sets using 21FBP22's and they have a safety glass that is attached around the edge of the tube so the resulting installation looks somewhat like a 21FJP22 but there is no bonding to the tube face. One of the safety glasses is etched like on a 21FPB22 and one is clear.

I know the difference in the look from the plain 21FBP22 with no glass as my CTC-10 has a 21GVP or 21GUP22 that has no attached saftety glass but it has the seperate rectangular tempered glass panel.

daro · #13 10-08-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domfjbrown

On more-modern square(ish) CRTs from the 70s on, the rimband certainly seems to work if you're belting a breezeblock or hammer through the screen (mis-spent youth speaking here!) - all the glass'd stay inside the case of the TV, and the shattered remains of the shadowmask/rimband'd be in the case too:

OK, so it's a b&w portable, and the glass is MORE intact than on the 25inch colour tellies we bust at school, but you get the idea. My nefarious mate Rob did that portable, and here he is again with my old monitor:

Obviously the implosion protection isn't infallible:

Not big, not clever, but THAT breaking glass really IS an interesting sound... At least all the tellies that died at our hands were junker/broken modern plastic POSs...

I think the term "bonk bonk bonk BONNNNGGGGGSKLAASSSSH!" would ring a bell. Not funny!

Here is another picture of the advantages of rimbands on CRT's

The CRT was out of my Grundig TV & I replaced it with another one as this one was crook, So it was decided to dump the old one at the dump.

For good mesure the thing was dropped on it's neck & here is the end result, Glass everywhere as the thing colapsed on itself & I made one hell of a bang in the process.

southernguy · #14 10-19-2005, 02:36 AM

I got most of the Caps in today. Ive been replacing what I could. This set had three black beauties and was full of black plastic shell caps with "Philco" stamped on them. There all getting replaced. The Electrolytics will also be replaced in time. This set was pretty much a dead set when I brought it home. On top of the fried flyback I had no audio. The speaker made a sound that that sounded like a motor. Not the tube radio hum. Today, we have audio, loud and clear with no hum, no, motor sound. I hook the cable up to it and im getting stations.

So the tuner and IF stages are working. However I did not proceed with puting the Horizontal Output tube back in to see what the picture would look like. I need a flyback cage cover for a "Philco 16M91 Chassis" do any of you guys have one. Don't think it would safe to run this set without one. Also, The tube should have a safety glass of some sort. The tube number was hand written on the back of the tube and it list 21FB22 A. A seperate rectangular tempered glass panel could easily be made to fit. Im not sure what might of been origonal to this set.

superdeez · #15 05-19-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric H

In the 70's there were rebuilders removing the bonded face and putting a metal band around the outer edge of the tube, this supposedly would prevent the glass from going everywhere in the event of breakage.
I never tested this theory.

My parents had a 27 or 29" NEC TV from the late 80s until early this decade, and that set had a flat pane of safety glass over the front of the bezel covering the tube. So the glass face of the tube was set back from the safety glass by about an inch.